• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:25
CET 13:25
KST 21:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
https://www.facebook.com/WuffyRobotPuppyGermany.On $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1:
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1654 users

Math puzzle #2 - Page 2

Blogs > LastPrime
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Steve496
Profile Joined July 2009
United States60 Posts
September 10 2010 06:36 GMT
#21
Why does CRT force d=p^n?
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 06:54:09
September 10 2010 06:43 GMT
#22
On September 10 2010 15:30 gondolin wrote:
We may assume by the CRT that d=p^n, with p odd, the case p=2 being trivial.
Now by induction, there exist N such that 2^N+N=0 mod phi(d).
Write 2^N+N + k phi(d) =0.
Then 2^(N+k phi(d)) + (N + k phi(d)) = 2^N+N+k phi(d) = 0 mod p^n.
CQFD.


Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 13:20 mieda wrote:
Now back to preparing lecture notes for serre duality and its applications to riemann roch type theorems..


Nice. Will you use it to prove the Hasse-Weil theorem on the zeta function of algebraic curve? From what I remember you can prove it without the classical proof from Weil with Jacobians by clever user of the Riemann-Roch (the hardest part being the Riemann hypothesis, with Jacobians you have the Rosati involution, here I don't remember how you do it).

By the way I infer from your signature that you are working on Complex Multiplication? That's one of the most beautiful area in Mathematics (according to Hilbert )!


Riemann Roch is useful for just about everything involving curves (ofc there is an analogue for surfaces.. but the formulas get nasty when dimensions rise)! I'm preparing the notes as a background for students who are starting to count dimensions of automorphic forms of various weights. They'll need to know some dimension theory on the complex surfaces formed from congruence subgroups, and that's just riemann roch ^^. Actually you don't need serre duality for proof of riemann roch theorems, especially if one is only working over the complexes, but the idea is nice enough

I'm not really working on complex multiplication per se. That's more lower dimension (i.e. elliptic curves). Of course there are analogues for higher dimensional abelian varieties, but the thing I work on is nice combinatorial descriptions (if I can!) of cohomology of rapoport-zink spaces.

Also, you should probably fill in more detail for reduction to d = p^n case. Chinese Remainder Theorem directly doesn't apply, as you will see. The problem is that the modulus are not pair-wise coprime when you apply it directly. But it just takes a little more work to get it to work.

Are you working on math also?
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 06:51:59
September 10 2010 06:44 GMT
#23
On September 10 2010 15:36 Steve496 wrote:
Why does CRT force d=p^n?


It doesn't, not directly at least. You still need to work a little bit to reduce to the d = p^n case. The moduli are not pair-wise coprime when you try to apply it directly, but just takes a little more massage to get it to work.
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 06:58:29
September 10 2010 06:55 GMT
#24
+ Show Spoiler +
Solution


Other nice problem
gondolin
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
France332 Posts
September 10 2010 07:50 GMT
#25
On September 10 2010 15:43 mieda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 15:30 gondolin wrote:
We may assume by the CRT that d=p^n, with p odd, the case p=2 being trivial.
Now by induction, there exist N such that 2^N+N=0 mod phi(d).
Write 2^N+N + k phi(d) =0.
Then 2^(N+k phi(d)) + (N + k phi(d)) = 2^N+N+k phi(d) = 0 mod p^n.
CQFD.


On September 10 2010 13:20 mieda wrote:
Now back to preparing lecture notes for serre duality and its applications to riemann roch type theorems..


Nice. Will you use it to prove the Hasse-Weil theorem on the zeta function of algebraic curve? From what I remember you can prove it without the classical proof from Weil with Jacobians by clever user of the Riemann-Roch (the hardest part being the Riemann hypothesis, with Jacobians you have the Rosati involution, here I don't remember how you do it).

By the way I infer from your signature that you are working on Complex Multiplication? That's one of the most beautiful area in Mathematics (according to Hilbert )!


Riemann Roch is useful for just about everything involving curves (ofc there is an analogue for surfaces.. but the formulas get nasty when dimensions rise)! I'm preparing the notes as a background for students who are starting to count dimensions of automorphic forms of various weights. They'll need to know some dimension theory on the complex surfaces formed from congruence subgroups, and that's just riemann roch ^^. Actually you don't need serre duality for proof of riemann roch theorems, especially if one is only working over the complexes, but the idea is nice enough


Yes, the "nice" generalisation is Grothendieck-Riemann-Roch, but it is harder to expose
(But I still find it beautiful that Riemann-Roch is a relative theorem)


I'm not really working on complex multiplication per se. That's more lower dimension (i.e. elliptic curves). Of course there are analogues for higher dimensional abelian varieties, but the thing I work on is nice combinatorial descriptions (if I can!) of cohomology of rapoport-zink spaces.


Well Complex Multiplication on elliptic curves is known since Kronecker. (The fact that the j-invariant give the Hilbert class field of Imaginary Quadratic fields). The work of Shimura was to generalize this to abelian varieties. (The modular invariants of an abelian variety with CM by K lies in the Hilbert class field of the reflex field + the reciprocity law expressing the action of the Galois group in term of the type norm of the ideals of the reflex field.)


Also, you should probably fill in more detail for reduction to d = p^n case. Chinese Remainder Theorem directly doesn't apply, as you will see. The problem is that the modulus are not pair-wise coprime when you apply it directly. But it just takes a little more work to get it to work.

Are you working on math also?


Yeah that's true, you need to keep track of the congruent relations of the N_i solution for p_i to verify you can "glue" the solutions. (That's funny how the point of view change, before I thought of the CRT as an arithmetic statement, now when I think about it I visualize it as local sections over Spec(Z/NZ) that we try to glue).

I have a background in mathematics, but now I am working on computer science By the way I see that you are from Harvard. Do you know Sophie Morel? She attended the same "college" as me and is very good
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 08:21:41
September 10 2010 07:55 GMT
#26

Yeah that's true, you need to keep track of the congruent relations of the N_i solution for p_i to verify you can "glue" the solutions. (That's funny how the point of view change, before I thought of the CRT as an arithmetic statement, now when I think about it I visualize it as local sections over Spec(Z/NZ) that we try to glue).


Yea, that's actually a nice way to visualize it.


I have a background in mathematics, but now I am working on computer science By the way I see that you are from Harvard. Do you know Sophie Morel? She attended the same "college" as me and is very good



Oh good. Yes, of course I know Sophie Morel, she's a new professor here. But I don't see her here nowadays. I presume she's visiting IAS now with the big number theory thing going on there this year.

It's interesting to see another person who did math in TL.net ^^.
gondolin
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
France332 Posts
September 10 2010 08:21 GMT
#27

It's interesting to see another person who did math in TL.net ^^. Did you play SC also?


There is a user (Muirhead I think) that is also doing math (he works on algebraic geometry in MIT).
Yeah I discovered SC when I went to the "college" I mentioned. I played warcraft 3 before, but once I discovered SC i switched
Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
September 10 2010 12:08 GMT
#28
There is a generalisation to this:
Fixing any a, d, k, and gcd(d,k)=1
ka^x = x mod d
always has infinitely many solutions x.

Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +

let x=ka^y mod d
then all we need to do is to find infinitely many y satisfying
a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
But since for any a, powers of a in mod d eventually cycles in period phi(d), it is sufficient to find infinitely many solutions to
ka^y = y mod phi(d)
now phi(d)<d so this is the same problem in a smaller mod. The result is certain true for d=1, induction cleans up the rest.


Setting a=2, k=-1 solves your question =).
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
September 10 2010 13:04 GMT
#29
On September 10 2010 17:21 gondolin wrote:
Show nested quote +

It's interesting to see another person who did math in TL.net ^^. Did you play SC also?


There is a user (Muirhead I think) that is also doing math (he works on algebraic geometry in MIT).
Yeah I discovered SC when I went to the "college" I mentioned. I played warcraft 3 before, but once I discovered SC i switched

And I just finished my undergrad in Math! Yay! Now doing some work in Topology :3
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 15:24:09
September 10 2010 15:23 GMT
#30
On September 10 2010 21:08 Ivs wrote:
There is a generalisation to this:
Fixing any a, d, k, and gcd(d,k)=1
ka^x = x mod d
always has infinitely many solutions x.

Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +

let x=ka^y mod d
then all we need to do is to find infinitely many y satisfying
a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
But since for any a, powers of a in mod d eventually cycles in period phi(d), it is sufficient to find infinitely many solutions to
ka^y = y mod phi(d)
now phi(d)<d so this is the same problem in a smaller mod. The result is certain true for d=1, induction cleans up the rest.


Setting a=2, k=-1 solves your question =).


The problem is that x = ka^y mod d doesn't imply a^(ka^y) = a^x (mod d).
Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 16:07:47
September 10 2010 15:55 GMT
#31
On September 11 2010 00:23 mieda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2010 21:08 Ivs wrote:
There is a generalisation to this:
Fixing any a, d, k, and gcd(d,k)=1
ka^x = x mod d
always has infinitely many solutions x.

Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +

let x=ka^y mod d
then all we need to do is to find infinitely many y satisfying
a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
But since for any a, powers of a in mod d eventually cycles in period phi(d), it is sufficient to find infinitely many solutions to
ka^y = y mod phi(d)
now phi(d)<d so this is the same problem in a smaller mod. The result is certain true for d=1, induction cleans up the rest.


Setting a=2, k=-1 solves your question =).


The problem is that x = ka^y mod d doesn't imply a^(ka^y) = a^x (mod d).


I didn't say it implies, rather, it is suffice to solve the second equation to obtain a solution to the first.

edit: More specifically,
If x = ka^y, then
ka^x = x mod d if and only if a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-10 19:55:57
September 10 2010 17:07 GMT
#32
On September 11 2010 00:55 Ivs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 00:23 mieda wrote:
On September 10 2010 21:08 Ivs wrote:
There is a generalisation to this:
Fixing any a, d, k, and gcd(d,k)=1
ka^x = x mod d
always has infinitely many solutions x.

Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +

let x=ka^y mod d
then all we need to do is to find infinitely many y satisfying
a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
But since for any a, powers of a in mod d eventually cycles in period phi(d), it is sufficient to find infinitely many solutions to
ka^y = y mod phi(d)
now phi(d)<d so this is the same problem in a smaller mod. The result is certain true for d=1, induction cleans up the rest.


Setting a=2, k=-1 solves your question =).


The problem is that x = ka^y mod d doesn't imply a^(ka^y) = a^x (mod d).


I didn't say it implies, rather, it is suffice to solve the second equation to obtain a solution to the first.

edit: More specifically,
If x = ka^y, then
ka^x = x mod d if and only if a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d


Sure, but when k < 0 you're raising a to a negative power. For example in our case a = 2 and k = -1, you're saying -2^x = x (mod d) iff 2^(-2^y) = 2^y mod d, and how will you interpret 2^(-2^y) ? it's not an integer.

Also, in your original proof you wrote x = ka^y (mod d), thus sufficient to solve a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d, from which I thought that you seemed to be saying that if x = ka^y (mod d) then a^x = a^(ka^y) mod d, which isn't true.

Remark: When k > 0, the remark I made earlier in this thread is exactly this method. This solution doesn't seem to work, because we have k < 0 now. I made the remark that when we have to solve 2^N = N (mod d) and not 2^N = -N (mod d), then it's a bit easier.

Edit: There is a way to fix this argument, and that is to choose k so that gcd(d,k) = 1 and k > 0 by adding d to it sufficient number of times.
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
September 10 2010 17:23 GMT
#33
This exercise taught me a useful lesson in how the normal conditions given for CRT are stronger than necessary
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
September 10 2010 19:06 GMT
#34
On September 11 2010 02:23 KristianJS wrote:
This exercise taught me a useful lesson in how the normal conditions given for CRT are stronger than necessary


The exercise has served its purpose!

Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
September 11 2010 02:30 GMT
#35
On September 11 2010 02:07 mieda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2010 00:55 Ivs wrote:
On September 11 2010 00:23 mieda wrote:
On September 10 2010 21:08 Ivs wrote:
There is a generalisation to this:
Fixing any a, d, k, and gcd(d,k)=1
ka^x = x mod d
always has infinitely many solutions x.

Proof:
+ Show Spoiler +

let x=ka^y mod d
then all we need to do is to find infinitely many y satisfying
a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d
But since for any a, powers of a in mod d eventually cycles in period phi(d), it is sufficient to find infinitely many solutions to
ka^y = y mod phi(d)
now phi(d)<d so this is the same problem in a smaller mod. The result is certain true for d=1, induction cleans up the rest.


Setting a=2, k=-1 solves your question =).


The problem is that x = ka^y mod d doesn't imply a^(ka^y) = a^x (mod d).


I didn't say it implies, rather, it is suffice to solve the second equation to obtain a solution to the first.

edit: More specifically,
If x = ka^y, then
ka^x = x mod d if and only if a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d


Sure, but when k < 0 you're raising a to a negative power. For example in our case a = 2 and k = -1, you're saying -2^x = x (mod d) iff 2^(-2^y) = 2^y mod d, and how will you interpret 2^(-2^y) ? it's not an integer.

Also, in your original proof you wrote x = ka^y (mod d), thus sufficient to solve a^(ka^y) = a^y mod d, from which I thought that you seemed to be saying that if x = ka^y (mod d) then a^x = a^(ka^y) mod d, which isn't true.

Remark: When k > 0, the remark I made earlier in this thread is exactly this method. This solution doesn't seem to work, because we have k < 0 now. I made the remark that when we have to solve 2^N = N (mod d) and not 2^N = -N (mod d), then it's a bit easier.

Edit: There is a way to fix this argument, and that is to choose k so that gcd(d,k) = 1 and k > 0 by adding d to it sufficient number of times.


I did impose gcd(d,k) = 1, read the whole thing =P. You are right about the negative part though, and yup it is easily fixed.
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
September 11 2010 02:36 GMT
#36

I did impose gcd(d,k) = 1, read the whole thing =P. You are right about the negative part though, and yup it is easily fixed.


I read the whole thing. Only the $k > 0$ is meant to be new. You should read my last sentencen as "gcd(d,k) = 1" *and also* "k > 0"

Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
September 11 2010 02:43 GMT
#37
On September 11 2010 11:36 mieda wrote:
Show nested quote +

I did impose gcd(d,k) = 1, read the whole thing =P. You are right about the negative part though, and yup it is easily fixed.


I read the whole thing. Only the $k > 0$ is meant to be new. You should read my last sentencen as "gcd(d,k) = 1" *and also* "k > 0"


Oh right, fair enough (=.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
ByuN vs CreatorLIVE!
Clem vs Rogue
Scarlett vs Spirit
ShoWTimE vs Cure
WardiTV934
ComeBackTV 764
TaKeTV 250
IndyStarCraft 131
Rex102
IntoTheiNu 30
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 161
Lowko146
IndyStarCraft 134
Rex 117
BRAT_OK 60
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26811
Calm 5024
GuemChi 2616
Rain 1874
Bisu 1556
Horang2 976
actioN 596
Stork 450
Shuttle 436
Mini 282
[ Show more ]
firebathero 208
Rush 137
ggaemo 124
Larva 116
Mind 99
JYJ 89
Snow 84
Zeus 79
hero 57
ToSsGirL 57
sorry 56
Killer 52
Sacsri 48
Sea.KH 45
Barracks 45
Mong 44
Bale 41
Hyun 35
Terrorterran 30
910 26
soO 26
Shinee 25
Aegong 20
zelot 13
GoRush 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Shine 11
SilentControl 10
Noble 10
JulyZerg 8
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc3031
singsing2694
XcaliburYe142
League of Legends
C9.Mang0362
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1686
shoxiejesuss866
allub111
oskar70
Other Games
B2W.Neo849
crisheroes357
Fuzer 238
XaKoH 152
Trikslyr19
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 35m
Big Brain Bouts
4h 35m
YoungYakov vs Jumy
TriGGeR vs Spirit
The PiG Daily
8h 35m
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
CranKy Ducklings
21h 35m
WardiTV 2025
22h 35m
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
1d
Ladder Legends
1d 6h
BSL 21
1d 7h
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
Ladder Legends
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.