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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
So yesterday, the OSL tiebreakers took FOREVER to finish. Especially group D tiebreakers between Effort/go.go/Shine. However, after spoiling myself with results and reading the interview, I'm pretty enraged at how they handled things.
First off, for those who don't know what happened, in the second round of tiebreaks, Shine defeated go.go and was in a great spot to win when Effort pps as Shine is about to attack. At the time, it looked like Effort was down in mutalisk count, as Shine put up his second gas a lot faster and it looked like Shine had a great shot at winning right there. While it wasn't 100% win chance for Shine, it did look like he was somewhat ahead at the time. However, as Effort pp'ed to pause the game, the refs come in and Effort complains that his mouse didn't function and couldn't control his scourge.
So the refs come in and check his mouse and according to some translators in stream and in the LR thread, they couldn't find conclusive evidence or some shit like that. Yet, they still gave him a regame. Fucking bullshit. Absolutely fucking bullshit. First off, I'm pretty sure that since players bring their own mice and keyboard, they're responsible for anything that happens with their equipment.
Sure you can argue that it could have been a computer issue. But realistically, how many times has your computer failed to pick up a mouse signal? Plus, with inconclusive evidence, why should they give him a fucking regame? Doesn't seem fair to the other player who was pretty much about to rape him. The timing of the pp pretty much reeked of suspicion as well. His fucking units were still moving around. Everyone fucking saw it on the replay. I'm just pissed cause I feel like Shine legitimately got robbed.
What I don't understand is: Why didn't Flash get a regame in the MSL Finals? The power outage wasn't his fault, and you could have argued that JD might have screwed up and Flash could have won. Why did Effort get a regame when a mouse issue (that could have been his fault) occured, but Flash doesn't get a regame? Fucking bullshit. Plus, the way they handled it afterwards in the post-match interviews by completely neglecting the most controversial part of the entire tiebreakers was completely disgusting.
I'm thoroughly pissed. Shine got robbed. These guys need to be more consistent with their calls.
  
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Didn't know about this until I just read it here. But, maybe they learned their lesson from the way they handled Flash vs JD. Maybe they realized that giving a regame is the best way to handle those kinds of situations, so they did it properly this time instead of dealing with a whole bunch of drama like last time.
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Braavos36375 Posts
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story.
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Sure you can argue that it could have been a computer issue. But realistically, how many times has your computer failed to pick up a mouse signal?
Never in 10 years of my computer use. Unless I didn't plug the mouse in lol.
Unfortunately I was asleep at the time, so I can't judge how far Shine was ahead, but giving a regame still seems pretty fucking retarded. Give him a new mouse and unpause the game, end of story.
I swear to god Kespa has some sort of teenage girl reverse logic, Flash should have been given a regame, because there was no other way to finish the game. Effort should not have gotten it, because you CAN FIX THE FUCKING PROBLEM WITHOUT RESTARTING THE GAME.
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On April 19 2010 08:10 Roffles wrote:
What I don't understand is: Why didn't Flash get a regame in the MSL Finals? The power outage wasn't his fault, and you could have argued that JD might have screwed up and Flash could have won. Why did Effort get a regame when a mouse issue (that could have been his fault) occured, but Flash doesn't get a regame? Fucking bullshit. Plus, the way they handled it afterwards in the post-match interviews by completely neglecting the most controversial part of the entire tiebreakers was completely disgusting.
I'm thoroughly pissed. Shine got robbed. These guys need to be more consistent with their calls.
This is exactly what I thought after last night. I don't wanna spark up another argument about the MSL finals, but it really IS bullshit.
I guess the MSL and OSL work differently, but seriously, they need to come to a conclusion together as to what situation calls for a regame.
I feel just as bad for Shine here as I did for Flash.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story.
It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there.
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wow, I can't believe it TT
poor shine, I was rooting for him from the beginning
damn the people who run osl, shine deserved the win
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Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
I mean, if the mouse busted, that is Effort's own fucking fault. And think how many games that were played before the game in question and after the game with no comp. problems at all and no tweaking of the computer. And Effort played 2 games just fine without any problems.
He didn't pause at the start of game in question, he didn't pause when him and Shine were on equal footing, he didn't pause during the battle, he paused after he lost the battle. it was not like the mouse disconnected or anything, Effort was still microing the mutas during the battle and I could not see any real difference from how zergs usually microed.
Effort, you should never win game again, you only put in effort into how much bullshit you can use. Kespa you fail also for re-gaming without any conclusive evidence, mostly from Effort's word of mouth.
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France2061 Posts
Heh, when it's Flash and Jaedong in the MSL finals people are all over this sort of thing. When it's Effort and Shine in the sordid depths of the tiebreakers...  I gotta say, I'm just happy that go.go didn't advance. And imagine if this situation had arised when he was playing and he got a regame -- fucking scandal I say.
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is awesome32274 Posts
The mouse could have failed due to driver malfunction or for a bad port on the pc (among other reasons). That would be OGN's fault.
EffOrt wasn't 100% out. If you ever played as a Zerg you know how it's not impossible to change battles around with one good wave of scourge.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there.
Because EffOrt already lost his scourge/muta due to mouse malfunctioning.
This is a different scenario from Flash vs JD.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there.
shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once
yet shine was the one who got "robbed"
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story.
I can't imagine how you can call the person who went 2-2 against go.go the "most deserving."
Actually yeah I can. But I hope you understand my point that given this format of tiebreakers, saying "oh yeah so-and-so went 2-3 against so-and-so, there's no way you can say he was robbed" is kind of stupid.
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On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed"
Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks.
And all Shine needed was that game. I repeat, Effort did not complain at the start, he did not complain when he and Shine went mirror builds, he did not complain when they were engaging, he complained when it was clear who had the major advantage.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I'm aware that he only beat Effort once, but that one game he probably would have won would have catapulted him into the Ro8. And all he needed was one game.
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On April 19 2010 08:10 Roffles wrote:
So the refs come in and check his mouse and according to some translators in stream and in the LR thread, they couldn't find conclusive evidence or some shit like that. Yet, they still gave him a regame. Fucking bullshit. Absolutely fucking bullshit. First off, I'm pretty sure that since players bring their own mice and keyboard, they're responsible for anything that happens with their equipment.
Sure you can argue that it could have been a computer issue. But realistically, how many times has your computer failed to pick up a mouse signal? Plus, with inconclusive evidence, why should they give him a fucking regame? Doesn't seem fair to the other player who was pretty much about to rape him. The timing of the pp pretty much reeked of suspicion as well. His fucking units were still moving around. Everyone fucking saw it on the replay. I'm just pissed cause I feel like Shine legitimately got robbed.
I have a Razer Salmosa and it works perfectly fine most of the time, but on the rare occasion it decides to just stop working and I have to unplug and plug it back in. It's happened to me once or twice since I bought this mouse (roughly a year ago) and it happens in like the middle of games for just some random reason. I'm guessing that that's what happened to EffOrt during his match yesterday.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks.
If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals?
Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie.
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This is just some OSL tiebreaker. Big deal.
The one person who truly got robbed was Flash. That was MSL FINAL and kespa guys just told him "yo noob we watched rep, you dont have a chance there, so we will award JD win, GG bye LOL"
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On April 19 2010 08:10 Roffles wrote:
But realistically, how many times has your computer failed to pick up a mouse signal?
In the middle of a Starcraft game?
Exactly once, for a period of about a minute. I paused, but not before my army died at a critical point of the game.
This shit does happen.
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On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie.
Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
The point here isn't that Effort blows chunks or that Shine sucks balls and all-in's every game. I just think they dealt with the situation really poorly. Yes, Shine sucks and just all-in's every game, but the fact was he pretty much outplayed Effort up until that PP. And we know the rest.
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Maybe OSL refs are in on this whole illegal betting thing '_'
Sounds suspicious
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Roffles I can't tell who or what you're mad at. Are you mad at the referees or effort or the power outage or kespa or the lack of a clearly defined set of situations where a regame will be required?
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of?
On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216
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I asked in the LR thread and I want to ask here again. Does anyone know for sure if there was any proof that the mouse had stopped moving, or did they just take Effort's word for it?
If there was evidence, then I agree with the decision (even though it does make me indignant about the MSL Finals). If not, it was completely retarded.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I'm just pissed at how they run things these days. No semblance of consistency whatsoever. Plus the fact that they pretty much dodged the situation afterwards was pretty bullshit too.
The thing I dislike is that it wasn't like at the start, where nothing really happened and shit. This was like at least 10 minutes into the game and you could tell that Shine had a slight advantage. To take that away from someone and say "regame" kills morale.
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On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story.
The question isn't whether or not the problem was Effort's fault. Let's assume OGN is at fault. The problem is that kespa isn't being consistent with past decisions. Let's say for argument's sake that the technical issue was a computer fault, not Effort's. He received a re-game while he was tremendously behind in air units AND economy.
Flash had a situation where there were also technical issues which were not his fault. He did not receive a re-game.
Those saying that Effort was affected all game by the technical issue and thus fell behind because of the technical issue, rather than "falling behind" naturally like in Flash's case have no leg to stand on, because if Effort had technical issues earlier, he should have paused earlier. Instead, Effort only requested a pause and blamed the mouse issue when he had almost lost.
It's exactly as Roffles said - lack of consistency. And a lack of consistency in applying the rules can easily lead to favoritism and an unfair playing field for players.
There's no rational benefit to hoping that a certain player loses. Still, I hope Effort gets truly raped next round.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:36 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. The question isn't whether or not the problem was Effort's fault. Let's assume OGN is at fault. The problem is that kespa isn't being consistent with past decisions. Let's say for argument's sake that the technical issue was a computer fault, not Effort's. He received a re-game while he was tremendously behind in air units AND economy. Flash had a situation where there were also technical issues which were not his fault. He did not receive a re-game. Those saying that Effort was affected all game by the technical issue and thus fell behind because of the technical issue, rather than "falling behind" naturally like in Flash's case have no leg to stand on, because if Effort had technical issues earlier, he should have paused earlier. Instead, Effort only requested a pause and blamed the mouse issue when he had almost lost.It's exactly as Roffles said - lack of consistency. And a lack of consistency in applying the rules can easily lead to favoritism and an unfair playing field for players. There's no rational benefit to hoping that a certain player loses. Still, I hope Effort gets truly raped next round.
Flash was at a bad position cause of his own play. He went to the point of losing by playing and making decisions that lead to that.
EffOrt's mouse stopped responding and fucked up his micro.
If you had a save point of EffOrt vs Shine before the muta scourge battle began, I would agree to take it from there. But as the mouse malfunction already ruined it, the re-game is the best option.
Do you see the difference? I'm taking that you do from your post.
Ok, what if the mouse started working funny when you are about to attack?
For example, saving the differences, I sometimes get PC lag when playing a certain game (for example dota, or CS) because I get lots of messages on MSN or something like that. It happens randomly and it happened to me before in critical moments. It's not like my pc is working bad all game long, but just for brief periods of time.
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On April 19 2010 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of? Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216
Yeah, I saw that thread. It was based on ELO of the entire player's career. You know how Zero's stats does not reflect how good he actually is? Just like Effort's vs T elo and vs. Z elo has no reflection on how is actually doing?
And also, there is a rule that states if a player's own equipment malfunctions, its there own problem. And I am pretty damn sure Effort is aware of that. And of all the games played before and after that special game, nothing happened. So I seriously doubt the computer is a fault. I mean, a modern computer running Sarcraft is never going to crash.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:40 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of? On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216 Yeah, I saw that thread. It was based on ELO of the entire player's career. You know how Zero's stats does not reflect how good he actually is? Just like Effort's vs T elo and vs. Z elo has no reflection on how is actually doing?
Yeah, still EffOrt has more experience under pressure than all the other guys on the list, except Flash, Movie and maybe ZerO. But this thread is not about what I think of that.
Your point?
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On April 19 2010 08:43 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:40 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of? On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216 Yeah, I saw that thread. It was based on ELO of the entire player's career. You know how Zero's stats does not reflect how good he actually is? Just like Effort's vs T elo and vs. Z elo has no reflection on how is actually doing? Yeah, still EffOrt has more experience under pressure than all the other guys on the list, except Flash, Movie and maybe ZerO. But this thread is not about what I think of that. Your point?
I think not. How many times has Effort gone high up in a starleague compared to Kal and Zero? But you are right. This a pointless argument.
But my point still stands on how it was wrong for Effort to get a re-game.One, Player's equipments are their own responsibility. Two, they had one dude move the mouse for a few minutes as their only test to see if it is the mouse or the computer. Three, I mean really, think of all the games played on that computer that day which were fine. It is also modern computer running a 90s game. What are the chances of computer failure?
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On April 19 2010 08:51 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:40 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of? On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216 Yeah, I saw that thread. It was based on ELO of the entire player's career. You know how Zero's stats does not reflect how good he actually is? Just like Effort's vs T elo and vs. Z elo has no reflection on how is actually doing? Yeah, still EffOrt has more experience under pressure than all the other guys on the list, except Flash, Movie and maybe ZerO. But this thread is not about what I think of that. Your point? I think not. How many times has Effort gone high up in a starleague compared to Kal and Zero? But you are right. This a pointless argument. But my point still stands on how it was wrong for Effort to get a re-game.One, Player's equipments are their own responsibility. Two, they had one dude move the mouse for a few minutes as their only test to see if it is the mouse or the computer. Three, I mean really, think of all the games played on that computer that day which were fine. It is also modern computer running a 90s game. What are the chances of computer failure?
Actually... the chances are very far from 0 in an infinitesimal sense. Probably more likely than a gnome randomly popping out from the ground and giving you a million dollars, which is also possible in a loose sense of the word.
OffTopic: Hi Roffles! <3
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is awesome32274 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:51 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:40 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:31 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie. Who is predicting Effort vs. Flash finals? And who is this everyone you speak of? On April 19 2010 08:20 lone_hydra wrote:
Completely agree. What pisses me off more is now there is a thread predicting the most likely finals to be between Effort and Flash.
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120216 Yeah, I saw that thread. It was based on ELO of the entire player's career. You know how Zero's stats does not reflect how good he actually is? Just like Effort's vs T elo and vs. Z elo has no reflection on how is actually doing? Yeah, still EffOrt has more experience under pressure than all the other guys on the list, except Flash, Movie and maybe ZerO. But this thread is not about what I think of that. Your point? I think not. How many times has Effort gone high up in a starleague compared to Kal and Zero? But you are right. This a pointless argument. But my point still stands on how it was wrong for Effort to get a re-game.One, Player's equipments are their own responsibility. Two, they had one dude move the mouse for a few minutes as their only test to see if it is the mouse or the computer. Three, I mean really, think of all the games played on that computer that day which were fine. It is also modern computer running a 90s game. What are the chances of computer failure?
Why does everyone talk about the equipment is the players responsability? OGN and MBC provide THE COMPUTERS. The hardware malfunction could be because of the computers or the software in the computers. That's why a referee went and check EffOrt's mouse and was indeed having problems.
Mouse failure has NOTHINIG to do with how new or old the computer is. I don't know how computer literate you are but drivers and ports are not things of "how new, or potent" a computer. A port can act up on you at times and work well again afterwards.
Same with drivers, and specially on Windows.
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is there conclusive evidence that proves effort's mouse caused his bad position in the game, instead of his own fault? If yes regame was the right move. If not then he should not have been given a regame.
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Hm I wasn't aware that this happened.
On April 19 2010 08:10 Roffles wrote:
But realistically, how many times has your computer failed to pick up a mouse signal?
Happens to me quite often. But that's mostly because my computer is bad  . When I spam too much mouse/keyboard freeze for about 10 seconds. Quite handy in a middle of a battle (which doesn't happen often, fotunately, it's mostly early game).
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On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there.
As this has been discussed over and over again, it was very closet to 100% for JD, higher than the percentage for Shine.
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I can't believe how many people think the Effort situation and the Flash situation are equivalent and that Kespa should have been "consistent". Try thinking about it for more than 3 seconds before making an ironclad judgement on how similar the situations are.
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Flash vs. Jaedong:
-Game ended before it should, not the players' fault
-Regame if victor isn't clear
-Victor is clear
-->Game awarded to victor
Shine vs. Effort:
-Alleged equipment failure ruins game for a player
-Regame if equipment failure is real and not the player's fault, else continue (or disqualify pausing player)
-Equipment failure deemed to be real and not the player's fault
-->Regame
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
As I've calmed down, I've noticed that the two situations are pretty different. In Flash/JD, the logical decision would have been to resume, but since the power outage occurred, it wasn't possible. However, I still believe that the mouse situation was a bunch of codswallop and utter rubbish and that if they couldn't find anything conclusive, they should have just resumed the game. Simple as that.
And Shine would have most likely come out on top unless he displayed some of the worst mutalisk micro ever (possible though).
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 19 2010 09:28 Severedevil wrote:
Flash vs. Jaedong:
-Game ended before it should, not the players' fault
-Regame if victor isn't clear
-Victor is clear
-->Game awarded to victor
Shine vs. Effort:
-Alleged equipment failure ruins game for a player
-Regame if equipment failure is real and not the player's fault, else continue (or disqualify pausing player)
-Equipment failure deemed to be real and not the player's fault
-->Regame
But it was inconclusive. It wasn't deemed to be real nor false. So do you regame still?
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twice in a row kespa made the best possible decision to deal with a terrible situation. Props to them, anyone complaining is wrong.
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The power outage didn't affect Flash's play against Jaedong, Effort's mouse or computer or whatever clearly hampered his ability to play against Shine. Tough calls, but I agree KesPA made the right decision both times.
Also, both times, both "robbed" players had chances to win anyway and didn't.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
If Effort didn't get the regame and lost, then he would be eliminated.
When Flash didn't get his regame, he was only down 1-2. Not finished.
Kespa not giving the regame to Flash cannot be compared with them giving the regame to Effort.
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Effort gets a rematch because his "technical difficulty" with his mouse would have impaired his playing performance through-out the match. When he finally asked for a pause, he could attribute his loss to technical error and not actually performance. FlaSh on the other hand had no impairment of his play, he was at a firm disadvantage solely based on his own play. The power outage and efforts technical problem only similarity was they were a premature end to a one-sided game. It's stupid to compare the two, there's no discrepancy
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 19 2010 10:02 n.DieJokes wrote:
Effort gets a rematch because his "technical difficulty" with his mouse would have impaired his playing performance through-out the match. When he finally asked for a pause, he could attribute his loss to technical error and not actually performance. FlaSh on the other hand had no impairment of his play, he was at a firm disadvantage solely based on his own play. The power outage and efforts technical problem only similarity was they were a premature end to a one-sided game. It's stupid to compare the two, there's no discrepancy
Why wouldn't he pause beforehand then? Why wait until he's about to get crushed and then pause? If he had technical issues throughout the game, he should have paused when it first happened.
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On April 19 2010 10:08 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 10:02 n.DieJokes wrote:
Effort gets a rematch because his "technical difficulty" with his mouse would have impaired his playing performance through-out the match. When he finally asked for a pause, he could attribute his loss to technical error and not actually performance. FlaSh on the other hand had no impairment of his play, he was at a firm disadvantage solely based on his own play. The power outage and efforts technical problem only similarity was they were a premature end to a one-sided game. It's stupid to compare the two, there's no discrepancy Why wouldn't he pause beforehand then? Why wait until he's about to get crushed and then pause? If he had technical issues throughout the game, he should have paused when it first happened.
Because sometimes, there's that malfunction right before a major battle.
Happens to me all the time. >_< Ugh, I would get into a tense situation, but mis-micro because my mouse just fails and it stops moving completely. I then rely on my touchpad... but yeah. Not cool.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On April 19 2010 09:32 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 09:28 Severedevil wrote:
Flash vs. Jaedong:
-Game ended before it should, not the players' fault
-Regame if victor isn't clear
-Victor is clear
-->Game awarded to victor
Shine vs. Effort:
-Alleged equipment failure ruins game for a player
-Regame if equipment failure is real and not the player's fault, else continue (or disqualify pausing player)
-Equipment failure deemed to be real and not the player's fault
-->Regame But it was inconclusive. It wasn't deemed to be real nor false. So do you regame still?
Can we figure out specifically what the referee found? There are people insisting that the referee did in fact find a problem with EffOrt's mouse, while you are saying that they didn't know if there was a problem or not, which is basically suggesting that they didn't find the problem, but took EffOrt's word for it.
Obviously there is a huge difference between the two options, and the validity of this decision seems to rest directly upon this difference.
That said, as has been pointed out, the comparison to Jaedong/Flash isn't fair at any rate. If we do assume there actually was a problem, and that it took a mutalisk battle to prove to EffOrt how bad it was, than I don't see the issue with calling a replay.
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Think of it this way, You (zerg) play some other zerg on iccup and you start screwing up the same way that Effort did. Do you think it'll work if you pp while you report your game to admins asking for your points to not get taken away? Completely unjustified.
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For those who didn't watch, if Effort hadn't asked for a pause, he would have gotten raped by shine in 10 seconds. From the translations people were giving, it was said that there was a malfunction, but it couldn't be proved on what end it occurred from, so regame was the only option. However I'm pretty sure if Jeadong were in Shines position, kespa would have told Effort to GTFO and give JD the win, but no one really likes shine..
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On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals?
Because some people are fucking retarded.
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On April 19 2010 11:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Because some people are fucking retarded.
Effort will devolve into 2009 mode, where his ZvP and ZvZ were unstoppable, and he NEVER lost twice in one day.
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It really depends on the timing of the whole thing. I wish we could see the FPVOD, and the refs damn well better have been looking at that when they made their decision.
If from the FPVOD, Effort obviously had his mouse not respond for a little bit, and he pp's IMMEDIATELY after, then being lenient with a regame.
If he waited any time to re-evaluate his position before choosing to pp, no regame. Otherwise he could freeroll his mouse malfunction.
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Can't we all just be happy that shine didn't advance 
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On April 19 2010 11:57 prototype. wrote:Can't we all just be happy that shine didn't advance
this guys speaks the truth ;p
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yeah this is pretty bullshit i have to agree. could have paused the game. unplugged mouse, put new one in. would've taken like 30 seconds seriously.
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On April 19 2010 11:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Because some people are fucking retarded.
I'm retarded for my thread based on elo ratings? K.
Personally I think ZerO > Effort is likely, but you never know with ZvZ. All that thread said was that Effort's ZvZ elo is currently higher than ZerO's.
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Its fucking joke man. What you said about the Flash Jaedong game and now this. Flash gets screwed against Jaedong when something out of his control with no replay occurs. The judges rule Jaedong has a solid edge. Then, Shine has at least a marginal (maybe a solid) edge against Effort and Effort's equipment just happens to malfunction at that very second? Kespa really wanted Effort to make a ro8 finally. Its bullshit and Kespa makes bias decision to let their preferred winner win.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On April 19 2010 11:57 prototype. wrote:Can't we all just be happy that shine didn't advance
Or go.go
wow imagine go.go in an OSL quarterfinal 0.0
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On April 19 2010 12:57 3 Lions wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 11:57 prototype. wrote:Can't we all just be happy that shine didn't advance Or go.go wow imagine go.go in an OSL quarterfinal 0.0
bacchus? lol
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Sounds pretty dumb if they really gave a re-game when one player had a significant advantage and there was no serious proof.
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On April 19 2010 08:28 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 08:25 lone_hydra wrote:On April 19 2010 08:23 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 19 2010 08:19 Roffles wrote:On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story. It wasn't 100% for Shine, but it also wasn't 100% for JD as well. Yes, Shine could have lost the engagement, but why not just continue on if it's inconclusive? It's not like they had a power outage and couldn't continue like in MSL. They could have easily just pressed Resume and continued it from there. shine had 4 tries total to beat effort and only won once yet shine was the one who got "robbed" Also to Hot_Bid, Effort has never beaten Shine till after that game (4-0), after Shine's mental state was destroyed by taking victory right out of his hands (just like how Flash give up after the power outage). I mean, did you see how close the game was even though effort went 9 pool speed to Shine's 12 hatch? Effort blows chunks. If EffOrt blows chunks why is everyone so scared of him advancing and predict EffOrt vs Flash finals? Not like Shine advancing would change anything. Well yeah, maybe he would all-in one guy or two, and then die to Movie.
LOL very nicely put.
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United States11637 Posts
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if this makes you feel better. either of these 3 players going to get anal damaged in round of 8
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On April 19 2010 08:14 Hot_Bid wrote:
it wasn't 100% for shine. the refs determined that it could have been a computer error, so they rematched. i can't imagine how you think someone who went 1-3 (ok 2-3 if you count the malfunctioning mouse game) against effort got "robbed". the player that deserved it advanced, end of story.
the stats don't matter. It's this one game that counts. If Shine would have gotten the win who cares if he's 100-3 against effort or 3-203434234
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the decisions made in the msl and osl were probably by different people with much different circumstances. and probably there's alot more things that go on behind that people don't see that may have affected their decision so lets not jump to conclusions.
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Conclusive evidence is just a fancy term for "we didn't find a ripped wire or a busted laser thing (assuming he uses a laser mouse). I don't understand what you're pissed at because obviously they tried the mouse out themselves and must have seen it wasn't working well. You weren't there...they were.
To the people comparing this to Jd vs Flash. In that game Flash was behind because of how he played. Effort was (or at least they say) behind because of a malfunction. Not the same thing. That and theyre trying to keep this professional...therefore EVERYTHING should solely depend on the game itself and nothing external. equipment not working should never be a concern to the players and it would be unprofessional if it was.
As for consistency...this is the OSL and that was the MSL. They can make their own rules for their own leagues.
Of course the biggest thing ur missing it that its SHINE. Some shitty ZvP only zerg that is totally clueless after the early midgame. He's not gonna go far anyway. At least effort has the chance to revive his career.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I don't give a flying fuck if Shine sucks balls or if Effort is the new zerg savior. I'm just saying if they didn't have any conclusive evidence to say "Oh damn, our comps messed up", then there shouldn't be any regame whatsoever. Play the game out and let's get it over with if there's no substantial evidence to warrant a pause.
To be honest, Shine was playing the best out of his shitty group up until that point. And Effort hasn't been playing that well as of late either.
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I agree that the regame was bogus. What's stopping all players from just pausing and then citing 'computer problems' as they're about to lose based on this precedent?
If he did have real computer problems that affected the early game, he should have reported it right away. What he did was basically saying: "what the hell, let's see if I can win with this faulty mouse, and if I can't then I get a regame anyways with no consequence".
In the case that the computer problems were sudden, then they should have just resumed. If Effort reported the error right away, the game until that point should have been legit, and therefore after fixing the problems, the entire game would be without problems as well, giving no reason to regame at all.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On April 20 2010 00:15 Roffles wrote:
I don't give a flying fuck if Shine sucks balls or if Effort is the new zerg savior. I'm just saying if they didn't have any conclusive evidence to say "Oh damn, our comps messed up", then there shouldn't be any regame whatsoever. Play the game out and let's get it over with if there's no substantial evidence to warrant a pause.
To be honest, Shine was playing the best out of his shitty group up until that point. And Effort hasn't been playing that well as of late either.
We've been over this, I think you're saying that they couldn't find a problem which is a huge departure from finding a problem, but not knowing where the problem was. I think what was inconclusive was the second option. If you can't rule out the culpability of the computer in this situation, then you can't say the game was played in fair conditions.
Three scenarios, and nobody knows exactly which is which. There is, however, a scenario in which ordering the re-game would be the right thing to do.
> I think if they could not find a problem, they would not have taken EffOrt's word for it, and they would've resumed the game.
> I think if they had found that EffOrt's mouse was causing the problem, they probably would've replaced the mouse, given him a warning, and then resumed the game.
> But, if they found the problem was caused by computer error, or that they could not rule out that possibility, than the only fair option is to call the re-game.
On April 20 2010 00:34 ketomai wrote:
I agree that the regame was bogus. What's stopping all players from just pausing and then citing 'computer problems' as they're about to lose based on this precedent?
If he did have real computer problems that affected the early game, he should have reported it right away. What he did was basically saying: "what the hell, let's see if I can win with this faulty mouse, and if I can't then I get a regame anyways with no consequence".
In the case that the computer problems were sudden, then they should have just resumed. If Effort reported the error right away, the game until that point should have been legit, and therefore after fixing the problems, the entire game would be without problems as well, giving no reason to regame at all.
What's stopping players from pausing and citing computer problems is the fact that sometimes computer problems exist, but usually they don't. They wouldn't just blindly accept the complaint, they'd have to find the problem.
Also, you're assuming way too much, EffOrt may have noticed the problem at any point during the game, but he might've dismissed it as a small mistake on his part, or he might've hoped it was a one-time glitch. Any number of reasons why he never called for a pause until the game's most important battle, where he realized exactly how far up a creek without a paddle he was. My point is that you can't assume too much about the nature of this problem, and you can't assume that EffOrt was maliciously playing with a faulty mouse.
And finally, your third point has been addressed repeatedly throughout this thread. The mouse problems DID change the game, and EffOrt almost certainly blamed them for the loss in the muta battle that had just occurred. That's the difference between this and the power outage.
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On April 20 2010 00:34 ketomai wrote:
I agree that the regame was bogus. What's stopping all players from just pausing and then citing 'computer problems' as they're about to lose based on this precedent?
If he did have real computer problems that affected the early game, he should have reported it right away. What he did was basically saying: "what the hell, let's see if I can win with this faulty mouse, and if I can't then I get a regame anyways with no consequence".
In the case that the computer problems were sudden, then they should have just resumed. If Effort reported the error right away, the game until that point should have been legit, and therefore after fixing the problems, the entire game would be without problems as well, giving no reason to regame at all.
What's stopping all players? The fact that the referees tried out the mouse and concluded there was a problem.
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On April 20 2010 00:44 SubtleArt wrote:
What's stopping all players? The fact that the referees tried out the mouse and concluded there was a problem.
Ok, then I can bring a slightly faulty mouse every game if I wanted with the intention of calling a regame if I gain a disadvantage.
Usually players always get their mouse settings set before the game even starts. Effort should have been able to conclude if there were problems then or not. Once the match starts, you can't go back and blame equipment that's already been confirmed by yourself to be satisfactory, especially if you have the ability to pause in the case of immediate, sudden problems. Even in that situation, there should be no reason for a regame. Again, the problem should be fixed and they should continue. If Effort during the game told himself "oh something's weird", but brushed it off, it's his fault. He should just call a pause then and there if there's ANY possibility that the mouse started malfunctioning. Everything played up until the point of his pause was played because according to his judgement, it was playable.
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On April 20 2010 01:00 ketomai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2010 00:44 SubtleArt wrote:
What's stopping all players? The fact that the referees tried out the mouse and concluded there was a problem.
Ok, then I can bring a slightly faulty mouse every game if I wanted with the intention of calling a regame if I gain a disadvantage. Usually players always get their mouse settings set before the game even starts. Effort should have been able to conclude if there were problems then or not. Once the match starts, you can't go back and blame equipment that's already been confirmed by yourself to be satisfactory, especially if you have the ability to pause in the case of immediate, sudden problems. Even in that situation, there should be no reason for a regame. Again, the problem should be fixed and they should continue. If Effort during the game told himself "oh something's weird", but brushed it off, it's his fault. He should just call a pause then and there if there's ANY possibility that the mouse started malfunctioning. Everything played up until the point of his pause was played because according to his judgement, it was playable.
If u bring a faulty mouse ur guaranteeing a loss anyway
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I didn't watch the games, but why did they stop the game right there and start a re-game? Why couldn't they have checked to make sure the mouse was working again and just resume and unpause the game?
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awuh poor shine. do you think effort was doing it just for the regame?
i'd hope that he'd be more honorable then that
but then it IS the OSL -__-
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the refs always have to make hard decisions.. imagine the other way around a lot would have protested that Effort never got a chance for a rematch. i dont know way the refs always seem to make the wost decisions.
but either way i believe that neither of them nor shine nor effort will get beyond Zero.. and all this banter will be like the game they took off sea cause of the pp instead of the ppp.. just another bad decision by the refs
the flash game was totally f-ed up i still cant believe how bad the msl runs their stuff.
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EPT
