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Author's Note: I don't have a beta key (I play with my friend's account). I can't post on B.net forums.
I have been reading a lot of stuff regarding that:
StarCraft II is boring, it's just getting the stronger blob and a-moving.
I thought of things what made Broodwar so great. It was specific unit positioning. In SC2, many believe it's very optional.
Here's the things I believe that needed change:
Stalker:
Blink - should have another effect (slow, damage, deduct armor, or whatever)
Protoss players are given the option of "Do I blink here or there?". Protoss players then have room for improvement on thinking about the best blink timings/spots/etc. during clashes.
Liquid'Nazgul wrote:
Blink seems underused right now and most people agree stalkers need a buff. Instead of increasing hp/armor/dmg why not add in a slight slow. Sounds like a fun idea.
Reaper:
D8 Charge - change it back to an active ability. it's currently imbalanced and boring.
Gives Terran players a choice on which to blow up first. "Should I blow up the bunker? or the depot?"
FrozenArbiter wrote:
It's not imbalanced, or boring, but it is extremely one-sided. I'd like the ability brought back, just to give the reaper some duality. Right now it's only good at early game harass, and can't be used for fights basically.
Thor:
Strike Cannons - Given the Thor's high HP and armor, give it a delay before it's cast. currently, it's just cast and watch as target melts. Keep in mind that the Battlecruiser has this delay with Yamato.
Gives Terran players that hesitation of casting it or not.
Raven:
Point Defense - It can only intercept 20 ranged attacks. Remove it. Make it feel like a real Dark Swarm.
FrozenArbiter wrote:
Dunno, maybe just make the defense drone cheaper or start with more mana... I haven't used it that much but it's a cool idea.
Baneling
Increase damage, area and cost. Then give it friendly-fire.
Encourages Zerg players to place Banelings more strategically and carefully.
Broodlord
Change it's attack to something normal. Then make 'Spawn Broodling' it's active ability (By that, I mean have it instantly kill any non-robotic ground unit).
If you find this good and you happen to have the ability to post in B.net, please post it.
Puosu wrote:
Well he does have some good ideas, right? Baneling friendly-fire would be fantastic, the stalker/sentry ideas seem nice and well quite a few of his ideas would make the game more micro intensive and that seems to be what people currently think the game is lacking.
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I do not like any of those changes, but i would like to blink for stalkers upgradeable from core instead of citadel.
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I'll repost what I posted in your thread that got closed:
I agree to the fact that there should be more things that can (if they do it right) give a player a little extra advantage to make battles more exciting.
They shouldn't be mandatory to win a game but they should be there to make the game more dynamic at higher levels. They basically removed alot of the micro & unit positioning advantages (I usually let the AI do it's thing whenever i'm in a battle because im afraid that if I try to micro i'll just make things worse) and those things need to be replaced by something else.
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On March 01 2010 02:24 disco wrote:
I'll repost what I posted in your thread that got closed: Thanks.
Adding in the OP some other supportive thoughts from the closed one.
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Atleast you took out the sentry part
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yeah i've been really worried when watching sc2 streams. i'm glad that a lot of sc1 fans are having a similar reaction for similar reasons. i hate to see the starcraft franchise adopting elements of lesser games while sacrificing the aspects of sc1 that made it unique and better.
i don't really have any unit-specific complaints but it's really hard to understand why sc2 has adopted elements from other bad games over tried and true elements from its predecessor, the most successful RTS. i'd like to understand the answer to several questions: why are there units designed specifically to counter another particular unit? why does everything travel in a ball? why are there mega units the size of command centers?
i imagine all of these could be summarized with: why was dustin browder, the mind behind a bunch of really bad RTS games, enlisted to create sc2?
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On March 01 2010 02:27 floor exercise wrote:
Atleast you took out the sentry part
I am bit sleepy right now and didn't think that I could just move the sentry around -_-
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Good ideas, shit is Imba as fuck right now. Something needs to happen. 
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I agree on some points tbh, from what I've seen. But I'll still wait till I get to try it out myself.
And a slight off topic question: SC1 seems to be faster then SC2. Can you control the game speed, like slide it to Fastest like in SC1? I mean I do realize currently people just click ''Search'' for a game. But maybe you can control that you only look for games with Fastest speed? Is there even a fastest speed?
The current speed of SC2 seems a bit slower, has Blizzard said anything about this? The game speed can be made faster? Or is this the one and only speed that there will be?
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On March 01 2010 02:55 NonFactor wrote:
I agree on some points tbh, from what I've seen. But I'll still wait till I get to try it out myself.
And a slight off topic question: SC1 seems to be faster then SC2. Can you control the game speed, like slide it to Fastest like in SC1? I mean I do realize currently people just click ''Search'' for a game. But maybe you can control that you only look for games with Fastest speed? Is there even a fastest speed?
The current speed of SC2 seems a bit slower, has Blizzard said anything about this? The game speed can be made faster? Or is this the one and only speed that there will be?
SC2 doesn't have fastest but 'Faster' is indeed faster than SC1's 'Fastest'. (That made sense?)
Someone can correct me if I am wrong though.
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faster is the fastest speed available (in beta at least)
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banneling not being friendly fire at all is ridiculous imo
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On March 01 2010 03:28 cuteFayth wrote:
banneling not being friendly fire at all is ridiculous imo
If it did it would be so useless it already dies super quick and has limited use due that you need 3-4 to hit to do any real dmg to units that aren't rines you can make it FF but you need to buff it's power or hp in the process, anyways it's not like they can claim zerg has the only oped unit with reapers and immortals and colossus crap.
StarCraft II is boring, it's just getting the stronger blob and a-moving.
not the way i play zerg for sc2 although i have yet to find a way to play zvz without doing that 
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good to see u know so much about sc2. im going to take ur opinion and not buy it when it launches
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On March 01 2010 04:29 StarsPride wrote:
good to see u know so much about sc2. im going to take ur opinion and not buy it when it launches
wut?
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On March 01 2010 04:54 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 04:29 StarsPride wrote:
good to see u know so much about sc2. im going to take ur opinion and not buy it when it launches wut?
ignore, just one of those "sc2 is awesome the way it is dont change it bw sucks QQ" kinda posters
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yeah i really believe that one of the big factors that made sc a success was pure luck. it's a shame that blizzard might not be applying enough of the insights revealed from that luck from their older game to this newer game, but instead are applying a construct of their own which seems to be resulting in a very artificial game dynamic.
as failsafe pointed out, there are units specifically designed to counter other units, as if they are forcing a kind of game of their own, so the success of the game will depend on how much foresight they really have in designing a good game. with sc i really think they were lucky. there are new build orders coming out even now that no developer could have foreseen.
sc's units functioned to counter things in a blended kind of way , so you could have the possibility of different types of units and unit combinations dealing with the same threat, changing depending on situations and preferences. for sc2, if the game lacks that certain kind of complexity it might potentially lead to boring game dynamics, and in comparison to the glories of it's predecessor, a failure. sure sc2 is gonna have a shit ton of players and competition going around, but something important might be missing.
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thor already has to setup to use it's ability, it takes about 75% of the time as a yamato to cast.
d8 charges are too brutal being a spell, master it and it is impossible to avoid in the hands of a pro.
broodlords are way too good I agree, but i dunno about your change. Maybe just lower their HP or damage output.
That baneling thing could be something useful, but then you have unintended side effects. Take for example baneling drops in the back door, they become that much more powerful.
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The thor already has a delay to use it's ability.. it's just not as time-wrenching as the battlecruiser's, which I think is far considering it is a ground unit so it is more prone to attacks than an air unit.
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beta is still very young and you expected to see something besides a-moving blobs?
am i on the wrong site?
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If banelings do friendly fire the unit clumping AI will make them suck. They'll get in their little blob, the front one will blow up, and half of your banelings will be gone (though maybe it would encourage them to be used burrowed more). Your change idea totally redefines the unit, making them like infested Terrans in SC:BW. I don't think redefining the place a unit holds in the game is necessarily a bad thing, but it should certainly be well considered. People aren't using banelings to their full potential right now to begin with. I'd like to see baneling drops and more burrow use, for example. There is strategic innovation to be had before major changes are made.
I think your comments about D8 Charge and the Stalker needing a buff of some kind make sense. I'd like to see a health buff for Stalker, just because everything dies so fast. If things are getting buffs to make them see more use, why not hit two birds with one stone and make it so they're more used because they don't die instantly like virtually every other unit.
I think broodlords are one of the-- perhaps the-- coolest units in the game. They have flavor, utility, and look awesome. I don't see what's not to like.
Finally, to address the premise that seems to form the core of your post, I don't think that abilities on units are the answer to bringing micro back. I think that lots of players aren't used to the game (duh, right?) and aren't making the full use of their units. I almost never see blink except to hop up a cliff for a big game-winning attack, while I would expect it to be used to back your damaged units up like you do with dragoons in SC:BW. I rarely see burrow, even though roaches are all over the place and are much much more effective when microed with burrow. So in some cases I don't feel that there isn't micro to do, I just think that people aren't comfortable enough to be doing it.
I wouldn't discount that people are all saying there isn't enough micro capability, but adding abilities isn't really the answer. Lets think about the underlying causes of this lack of micro problem. I see them as primarily twofold: First, that units micro themselves. If you're microing your units you don't want to be decreasing their efficacy while doing so. Second, units die too quickly. There is some quality blob-making AI that makes units stack into compact balls that die really quickly to AoE and a high average damage rating of units. I won't suggest fixes for these things, because both are complex issues. It would be good for the game, but bad for marketing the game to decrease the AI quality, for example. It is important to identify underlying causes for problems though so that your efforts in suggesting solutions are not misplaced.
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On March 01 2010 13:10 thopol wrote:
If banelings do friendly fire the unit clumping AI will make them suck. They'll get in their little blob, the front one will blow up, and half of your banelings will be gone (though maybe it would encourage them to be used burrowed more). Your change idea totally redefines the unit, making them like infested Terrans in SC:BW. I don't think redefining the place a unit holds in the game is necessarily a bad thing, but it should certainly be well considered. People aren't using banelings to their full potential right now to begin with. I'd like to see baneling drops and more burrow use, for example. There is strategic innovation to be had before major changes are made.
I think your comments about D8 Charge and the Stalker needing a buff of some kind make sense. I'd like to see a health buff for Stalker, just because everything dies so fast. If things are getting buffs to make them see more use, why not hit two birds with one stone and make it so they're more used because they don't die instantly like virtually every other unit.
I think broodlords are one of the-- perhaps the-- coolest units in the game. They have flavor, utility, and look awesome. I don't see what's not to like.
Finally, to address the premise that seems to form the core of your post, I don't think that abilities on units are the answer to bringing micro back. I think that lots of players aren't used to the game (duh, right?) and aren't making the full use of their units. I almost never see blink except to hop up a cliff for a big game-winning attack, while I would expect it to be used to back your damaged units up like you do with dragoons in SC:BW. I rarely see burrow, even though roaches are all over the place and are much much more effective when microed with burrow. So in some cases I don't feel that there isn't micro to do, I just think that people aren't comfortable enough to be doing it.
I wouldn't discount that people are all saying there isn't enough micro capability, but adding abilities isn't really the answer. Lets think about the underlying causes of this lack of micro problem. I see them as primarily twofold: First, that units micro themselves. If you're microing your units you don't want to be decreasing their efficacy while doing so. Second, units die too quickly. There is some quality blob-making AI that makes units stack into compact balls that die really quickly to AoE and a high average damage rating of units. I won't suggest fixes for these things, because both are complex issues. It would be good for the game, but bad for marketing the game to decrease the AI quality, for example. It is important to identify underlying causes for problems though so that your efforts in suggesting solutions are not misplaced.
I want to talk about the highlighted. You couldn't be more mistaken. There is no need to decrease the AI (perhaps for the auto-surround on zerglings since I've heard rumors that you can't snipe units with them anymore....). The inverse skill is since units have better pathing, that instead of babysitting your units because the AI is horrible, now you have to babysit your units because the AI/pathing is so much better. This is a skill the same as before. There is nothing stopping a player from having 7-8 unit hotkeys. I think I may try something like this actually, and just put all my unit production buildings on one hotkey and just tab through them (Blizz really needs to add a better highlighting mechanism...green on green is horrible).
If you don't want your units to die to AoE quickly, then don't clump them. The logic in this is very simple, and very intuitive. This will be a skill that will seperate the joes from the pros. There is no problem here, just people complaining because their SCI skills do not transfer over one for one. Now you have to learn to manually de-clump your units instead of the AI doing it for you. Inverse skill.
Units do not micro themselves. This is so absurd. So much about micro is about unit positioning. There is no lack of this in SC II and on the contrary it becomes more important because of the lethality of units (Think reaver type destruction).
Lastly, if you compare the amount of abilities in SC I to SC II you will find that they are roughly the same amount, just that the utility of each skill in SC II is much greater, which depending on your view can be better or worse. I think having useless abilities is worse than having useful ones, but likewise having too many abilities is not my cup of joe.
As for the stalker....Dragoons died fast in SC I also, as did most of the units. I think people are just complaining to complain.
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EPT
