EPTA few family issues - Page 4
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littlechava
United States7218 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
it isn't right to say "This is the way it is and X is stupid, wrong and bad." That short sightedness is the WRONG'ness of many over religious people and equally, overly zealous atheists. I don't expect you to understand greg because on these boards you are about as overzealous with your atheism as it gets. Much of what you hate about religion greg starts when people tell others "this is the only way to think, everything else is wrong and will be punished" the difference is you don't see a difference between what you do and what religious people do when they say those things. I DO! Believing in a religion is fine. Being spiritual is fine. Being an atheist is fine. Being completely uninterested in all the above is fine. Indoctrinating children one way or the other is not fine. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
However, I won't tell her there is any validity in the idea that the earth is 6000 years old, or that fossils are not real, or that science falls under the baseless faith of human religions. I will not tell her what she believes is wrong but I will tell her that science is right. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On January 12 2010 18:27 {88}iNcontroL wrote: @IdrA because raising a child to think the way you want them to think is wrong no matter which belief system you hail from. A child should be taught to find the belief system for themselves. If they ask about dinosaurs tell them what you believe and encourage them to find answers for themselves. If they ask about Jesus tell them what you believe and encourage them to pursue their own belief. If they ask about Democracy tell them .. etc etc. it isn't right to say "This is the way it is and X is stupid, wrong and bad." That short sightedness is the WRONG'ness of many over religious people and equally, overly zealous atheists. I don't expect you to understand greg because on these boards you are about as overzealous with your atheism as it gets. Much of what you hate about religion greg starts when people tell others "this is the only way to think, everything else is wrong and will be punished" the difference is you don't see a difference between what you do and what religious people do when they say those things. I DO! Believing in a religion is fine. Being spiritual is fine. Being an atheist is fine. Being completely uninterested in all the above is fine. Indoctrinating children one way or the other is not fine. thats the thing, you dont have to sit her down and have her memorize on the origin of species. 'science' is not a belief. the problem with religion is that they say "and these crackers are jesus' body" and you say "orly?" and they say "fuck you eat the crackers". science says "we evolved from monkeys" and you say "orly?" and then science can show you the path of evidence and logical reasoning that lead to that conclusion. and at any point you can question that reasoning or that evidence, and if it turns out that evolution is indeed demonstrably flawed people would look to different ideas that fit with the existing evidence. yes, science can be treated as dogmatic. but that is a problem with the people who become attached to theories. the scientific process in itself is inherently undogmatic as it demands that everything be questioned. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I am a christian but I damn well don't believe the world is anywhere near 6k years old. I know dinosaurs weren't traps planted by the Devil and I don't think native americans are being punished by the Morman jesus etc etc.. I however feel strongly that when being around children we shouldn't fill there heads with the correct answers according to us and tell them that their parents are idiots. This is nearly an impossible tidbit of advice I am seeing.. you (and IdrA) apparently have no idea how to interact with children. I know from your perspective what you "know" is 100% true and 100% correct but you aren't looking at the entire picture. It isn't the information that is important it is that this little girl is being raised in a house where she is TOLD what to believe and is educated to believe strongly that anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong and potentially evil. Now when you come to that little girl and say "actually everything they tell you is wrong, and the opposite is true, and if you believe otherwise you are a fool" you think you are freeing her? You think you are equipping her with tools necessary for a successful life later? If you do think again. You made the blog asking for advice. If you shut down the first good piece of advice you receive it is not her uncle that is the asshat here it is YOU. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
That's totally different than telling her "Actually everything you say is wrong" | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I will just hold you to the line "I'm just going to encourage her to think for herself..." because that is all I ask. Words like "show her" and "telling her the methods" etc etc.. are a dangerous line. If I grew up in a house where people "showed me" and "told me the methods" for X be it religion or science with the idea of ruling out the other I'd be a fucking confused child ESPECIALLY if I had both (which she could if you don't hold to your word). | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
And I do think that making her get to know other cultures (through some good documentaries for example) is a good idea | ||
Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
I definitely wouldn't try and 'subvert' against the parents wishes, because I imagine that is a fast track to being cut off from your sister and that will make things much worse, beyond the fact that she'll possibly be removed from your life. I can't say this for sure though, as I don't know the uncle and auntie, I'm just making a guess here. Plus inc makes good points as to why this would probably be bad. | ||
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blue_arrow
1971 Posts
The least you could do is be supportive to her and answer her inquiries thoughtfully with as much honesty as appropriate. If conflicts arise between her and her parents, make sure she knows that you'll be there to support and guide her. Honestly speaking, if her parent's beliefs are as extreme as you describe them to be (attributing 9/11 to feminists etc), there there's a good chance that the girl won't end up following these beliefs anyways. However, you need to be more specific on the methods that the foster parents employ when 'indoctrinating' her. Do they simply rant, is she sent to 'extremist evangelical' schools, do they prohibit relationships they deem inappropriate to their beliefs but are completely fine by your perspective? I think some people are beginning to assume too much from the information provided; we need more details to give you better advice here! All in all, the degree to which her foster parents are 'indoctrinating' her should dictate the level of active intervention that you should be taking. | ||
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wwJd)El_Mojjo
Sweden173 Posts
I appreciate your good will concerning the matter though, so here's my advice: Most importantly, always be honest. She's probably brought up to despise dishonesty, right? So you'd just ruin things between you if she feels that you have some kind of hidden agenda or that you're not telling her the whole truth about something. Of course you don't have to throw it all in her face at once, but let her know what you're really thinking about these things when talking about the subject. In other words, don't try to use some kind of strategy to undermine the things she believes just because it will make it easier to say what you really want to say later on or something. You should accept her stance on things and if you want her to change her thinking about something, then be honest about that too. Let her know that you would like her to change her thinking and also the reason why you want that. It is possible to say this without actually trying to change her. Just be honest about what you want at the same time as being clear that the decision making about the subject is ultimately up to her. Since you mentioned that you would like her to start thinking a bit more on her own instead of just blindly believing what people says, I'd say it would be a good idea to start talking about these kind of "deeper" topics a bit more. If she doesn't want to talk about it at all then I don't know if there is anything you can do really, but since she has some kind of beliefs it's probably an interesting topic to talk about for her as well because it actually concerns her own life. At least if you're close enough (I guess some people find the subject too personal to talk about with anyone but the people who are closest to them). And if you feel that you don't really have a topic to start with concerning beliefs and such things, think about what you usually talk about. Maybe you like to talk about movies? Then suggest watching a movie (a good movie of course!) that you know contains topics related to beliefs and thinking. After seeing the movie I would probably just ask her something like "what do you think about that thing he said in the movie, do you think that's true?" and just say that "I've been thinking about this lately, actually I believe that etc etc." Anything to get the discussion started. Because I think that's what you really want... To actually talk to her. Maybe not convince her about something, but at least let her know what you know and think about all this and give her the opportunity to see an alternative way of thinking. Right? Of course it doesn't have to be a movie, but I think it helps to have some kind of topic to start with that is related to her interests. I guess you could use a lot of different interests as topic starters. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
As for what activities you can do I'm not sure. It doesn't seem like you enjoy being in the house too much, so you can maybe plan on taking trips to different places. | ||
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AtlaS
United States1001 Posts
Does she go to public school? You don't have to do shit. She'll grow up and figure things out on her own. Does she go to private/catholic school? You should still be alright. Don't get the impression that catholic schools are full of evangelical saints that get their knuckles hit with a ruler if they say something out of line (unless you live in the bible belt or something). Most catholic schools that I knew of, including the one I went to, produced 90% normal people to 10% zombies. Those 10% were usually the ones that went into high school straight from being home schooled at a very evangelical household. Whichever it may be, it's out of your hands. | ||
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