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A few family issues - Page 3

Blogs > DoctorHelvetica
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Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 02:17:03
January 12 2010 02:16 GMT
#41
On January 12 2010 11:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Go to the zoo. Go to the science museum. Ride bikes. Shoot hoops. Go to the park. Go to the pool. Watch a movie. Volunteer at an animal shelter with her (walking dogs, petting cats etc etc). Start a model together. Do puzzles.

as for the religious problem: I understand you see her getting indoctrinated and you do not like it. I understand you want to intercede but chances are you will do more harm than good. If you directly compete you will force her to be in the middle. If you subtly try to suggest the competitive mode of thought you are as bad as they are. It is tough when people are raised in hardcore X households but it isn't our place to decide to "free" them or "arm" them with the "superior knowledge."

If she asks you questions answer them honestly. If she wants to know about your belief system share. But don't plot to control her thoughts or beliefs through direct or indirect methods.


inc you rock.
Happiness only real when shared.
kawoq
Profile Joined November 2005
Guatemala357 Posts
January 12 2010 02:21 GMT
#42
On January 12 2010 11:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Go to the zoo. Go to the science museum. Ride bikes. Shoot hoops. Go to the park. Go to the pool. Watch a movie. Volunteer at an animal shelter with her (walking dogs, petting cats etc etc). Start a model together. Do puzzles.

as for the religious problem: I understand you see her getting indoctrinated and you do not like it. I understand you want to intercede but chances are you will do more harm than good. If you directly compete you will force her to be in the middle. If you subtly try to suggest the competitive mode of thought you are as bad as they are. It is tough when people are raised in hardcore X households but it isn't our place to decide to "free" them or "arm" them with the "superior knowledge."

If she asks you questions answer them honestly. If she wants to know about your belief system share. But don't plot to control her thoughts or beliefs through direct or indirect methods.


Just what he said, you will do no good by forcing it, just show her the world and let her ask herself those questions. Be honest all the time and let her think.

I am curious, what kind of evangelist are they? Presbiterians or what?
"It is not a shameful thing to be unable to reach the goal. It's becoming afraid and running away, even before considering the fact that the road is long and rough, that is truly cowardly." by - Lim Yo Hwan aka SlayerS_Boxer from "Crazy as me"
mptj
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States485 Posts
January 12 2010 02:42 GMT
#43
lol on a side note that video posted by Doctor Helevtica was amazing! But so far, I think the best thing you can do to bond with her is cooking. I doubt anyone will get mad, and it can be fun to do while offering a reward at the end.
"Only the Good Die Young"
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
January 12 2010 02:45 GMT
#44
Listen to Slayer.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
errol1001
Profile Joined April 2008
454 Posts
January 12 2010 04:01 GMT
#45
Maybe they aren't so bad.

I mean, they're not even telling her to get back in the kitchen..

As in, they want her to go to business.. not marry a guy going into business.
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
January 12 2010 04:08 GMT
#46
Let her read Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code
Terran
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
January 12 2010 04:17 GMT
#47
On January 12 2010 09:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 09:35 Revolt wrote:
a belif doesn't have to be a god, you know.
she can believe in rationality; im a deist btw, so don't confuse me with a religious freak.
i believe in natural law.
people learn from their mistakes and they'll take great value in it; let her experience them for herself.


I can't stand by comfortably and watch my sister get indoctrinated into wacky extremist bullshit. She's been taught never to question the bible, never to read anything that isn't by a christian author, they don't even eat at restaraunts not owned by christian owners.


That really is some sad shit.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
sYz-Adrenaline
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1850 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 04:21:33
January 12 2010 04:20 GMT
#48
Teach her not to give a shit about religion its what i do

all aside though.. thats pretty intense.. ive never seen someone so obsessed with religion
Can you feel the rush?
Mickey
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2606 Posts
January 12 2010 04:38 GMT
#49
From what you have spoken in this thread, I despise your uncle with passion. He's everything that's wrong with individuals within in the United States.

0neheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States92 Posts
January 12 2010 04:39 GMT
#50
i'd totally discuss it directly with your uncle and aunt about religion whenever they bring it up, but since i'm not living your life i'm sure that your judgement is better than mine

i guess alienating them isn't the best thing to do, but i really really don't like those kind of ridiculous people and i love discussing religion with them
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
January 12 2010 04:40 GMT
#51
On January 12 2010 09:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 09:46 DyEnasTy wrote:
Just ask her what she wants to do.


Me: "I'm bored, what do you wanna do"

Sister: "Yeah I'm bored too, I dunno you think of something"

and vice-versa ad infinitum



Hmmm yeah that does happen alot.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 12 2010 04:49 GMT
#52
On January 12 2010 11:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Go to the zoo. Go to the science museum. Ride bikes. Shoot hoops. Go to the park. Go to the pool. Watch a movie. Volunteer at an animal shelter with her (walking dogs, petting cats etc etc). Start a model together. Do puzzles.

as for the religious problem: I understand you see her getting indoctrinated and you do not like it. I understand you want to intercede but chances are you will do more harm than good. If you directly compete you will force her to be in the middle. If you subtly try to suggest the competitive mode of thought you are as bad as they are. It is tough when people are raised in hardcore X households but it isn't our place to decide to "free" them or "arm" them with the "superior knowledge."

If she asks you questions answer them honestly. If she wants to know about your belief system share. But don't plot to control her thoughts or beliefs through direct or indirect methods.

how can you read the posts in this thread and suggest that teaching the kid the scientific method or skeptical thought is just as bad as telling her that feminists atheists and gays are responsible for 9 11 and that she should never ever read anything that doesnt support their own beliefs?
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17731 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 05:24:59
January 12 2010 05:11 GMT
#53
I actually was raised to a certain point like this. The way I eventually learned it was mostly because my parents cant be with me 24/7. I have a question. Does your sister go to a christian school or is she home schooled?
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
January 12 2010 05:18 GMT
#54
Your aunt and uncle make all Christians look bad, not everyone believe that obviously... I would suggest taking her to the zoo or a theme park maybe... uhhh a movie or to build a bear? lol
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
ShroomyD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 05:30:37
January 12 2010 05:26 GMT
#55
Pure logic! Some common fallacies, maybe work through the ones an evangelist might find acceptable n shiet. Sum deductive reasoning, maybe disguise it! make sum awesome analogies. Oh ya maybe learn and get into sum Socratic method.

also

On January 12 2010 09:31 JohnColtrane wrote:
punch your aunt and uncle in the face DICK

아나코자본주의
Equaoh
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada427 Posts
January 12 2010 05:33 GMT
#56
I agree with idra - you don't have to tell her god is a lie straight up, just suggest to her to question what she's told and to ask for evidence. That's really the best thing you can do for her, eventually she'll be able to choose for herself.
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-12 05:46:07
January 12 2010 05:36 GMT
#57
On January 12 2010 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 09:43 unit wrote:
On January 12 2010 09:30 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Teach her SC!


best idea in this thread (except maybe cooking thats hella fun w/multiple ppl)


She wants to be a chef, but her dad won't "allow" it since Chef's don't make enough money. He owns a lucrative construction company that operates in Florida and Texas and despises the poor and anyone who pursues a career because of their love/passion.

When I told him I was interested in the career of a Professor (some professors have 6 figure salaries) he told me I might as well go to art school and that education jobs are for the weak and unmotivated. So he wants her to do business or something where she'll be making lots of money, since besides Jesus that's all that matters to him.

I told her she should do what she wants first and think about money second and that if she is successful as a chef she could get involved in the business aspect of owning a restaurant.

So that's actually a really good suggestion, I don't know anything about cooking. Maybe I'll ask her to teach me how to cook stuff.

+ Show Spoiler +
Hello Doctor Helvetica! I think we spoke on the IRC... (and you still rock!)
But this is a very difficult issue ( ), especially since it involves somebody you presumably care dearly about, your sister.
I don't think you should turn her into an ideological battleground, but rather try to talk to your aunt and uncle, her guardians. You need not convince them that their beliefs are faulty or that they are too extreme... but you might want to ask them to consider the long-term social well-being of the girl they also love.

You are one of the most eloquent people whom I've ever had the pleasure of making a cyber-acquaintance, so i don't think I'll feed you any lines, but here are some points to consider.
1.) Tolerance through ideological compromise. Muslims, like atheists, are not "possessed" by demons, but rather just "misguided." You can give the example of a child who is raised in an atheist family, or raised in a muslim family... the child doesn't know any better, and shouldn't be faulted purely for the absence of exposure to "christ." And so long as they remain benevolently oblivious to the glory of Christ, they should still be respected as God's children.
As an atheist, I know this is *probably* (:p) not what you believe (nor is it what I believe, for that matter) but I think using their mindset you can let them see the benefits of letting their little girl at least "accept" other belief systems.
2.) An argument of pragmatism. At some level all religions agree that "God helps those who help themselves." If your sister is able to gain a scientific/rational worldview (even alongside a Christian belief system) she is much more likely to succeed in future endeavors. As an example, she may believe in Divine Creation, but you should explain to her guardians that the academic necessity of at least understanding the scientific mechanism of (if not believing in the theory of) evolution. When she hits high school/college you can open her eyes to reality
3.) Be a quiet role model. I think that the fact that aunt/uncle don't seem to have a problem with your spending time with your sister indicates at least a partial willingness to compromise. They, for example, at least believe that family (in some capacity) trumps religion. Thus, if you are unable to persuade moderation, don't despair and don't get angry. Simply by being a (nonchristian) role model, you are inherently teaching her tolerance, and (hopefully) empathy. From that, in time, an all else follows.

Sorry if none of that helped I literally do not know and have never spent any appreciable time with the type of evangelists your aunt/uncle seem to be. Even the most devout among my acquaintances are reasonable people. I never shy away from civil discourse on religion, and in all of my discussions on the subject, it appears that belief is tempered with rationality; thus I may be underestimating the recalcitrance of your aunt/uncle's intolerant beliefs.

Good luck, anyhow. I hope you're able to prevent your sister from becoming one of those fundamentalist zombies.

Oh snap... I took too long to write this post. So umm tl;dr Incontrol > Idra

Crap... didn't see this part:
I know it'll come up eventually that I'm an atheist, the household being the way it is I can't hide it forever. I'd rather choose a time to let it out when it won't be a huge ordeal.

Everything I wrote was wrong. You're fucked, man. There's no reasoning with people like that.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
January 12 2010 06:05 GMT
#58
On January 12 2010 13:49 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2010 11:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Go to the zoo. Go to the science museum. Ride bikes. Shoot hoops. Go to the park. Go to the pool. Watch a movie. Volunteer at an animal shelter with her (walking dogs, petting cats etc etc). Start a model together. Do puzzles.

as for the religious problem: I understand you see her getting indoctrinated and you do not like it. I understand you want to intercede but chances are you will do more harm than good. If you directly compete you will force her to be in the middle. If you subtly try to suggest the competitive mode of thought you are as bad as they are. It is tough when people are raised in hardcore X households but it isn't our place to decide to "free" them or "arm" them with the "superior knowledge."

If she asks you questions answer them honestly. If she wants to know about your belief system share. But don't plot to control her thoughts or beliefs through direct or indirect methods.

how can you read the posts in this thread and suggest that teaching the kid the scientific method or skeptical thought is just as bad as telling her that feminists atheists and gays are responsible for 9 11 and that she should never ever read anything that doesnt support their own beliefs?


Yup definitely agree. People like them are the reason why someone like Palin even has/had a chance of being a president of the United States.
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
January 12 2010 07:41 GMT
#59
Is Palin really an evangelist? I just thought she was kind of dumb :/
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
JFKWT
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Singapore1442 Posts
January 12 2010 07:50 GMT
#60
On January 12 2010 11:12 zekie wrote:
just tell her exactly what you think. explain that everybody has their own opinions and that she gets to choose what she believes (and what she does as a career).

in my experience i've always found it best to follow my heart and not care what other people think.

i wish i learned that when i was 13 ^

^

you could play/learn a musical instrument/sing (badly or not) together or in a duet
The calm before the storm / "loli is not a crime, but meganekko is the way to go!"
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