EPTStop being so fucking stupid, please.
SCBW Coaching: Update 3 - Page 5
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Neobick
Sweden208 Posts
Stop being so fucking stupid, please. | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
On January 06 2010 06:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Agreed, but why broaden that scope? I don't think the scope is at all broadened. Pure (unfunny) troll posts will be deleted, lame posts will be mocked. Just like it is now! Imagine that. | ||
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Tenryu
United States565 Posts
On January 06 2010 06:56 Hot_Bid wrote: You think $10/hour is too expensive for specialized, one on one teaching? Piano and language teachers charge far more per hour, and they probably are nowhere near as good at their skills as Inc is at BW. People in the top of their fields charge far more, hundreds an hour, to tutor one person. I think the price is actually outrageously low rather than high, obviously $10 is a lot to a minimum wage worker but obviously Incontrol isn't targeting some guy that works at a grocery store to feed his family. We're talking people who play StarCraft for recreation -- if they can afford a computer and regular internet, they can afford $10. You have a warped sense of "expensive" if you think $10/hr is "outrageous," have you ever had to pay for a lawyer or doctor? Its far, far more expensive. At $10 for one lesson, it's basically the same as going to a movie, and you don't think movies are outrageous right? Even though i can afford $10 for going to movie quite easily, i think its outrageous. | ||
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FastEddieV
United States614 Posts
Anyway I think 10$ per hour far too expensive for 1 hour bw lesson. I don't know about USA but here in Portugal minimum wage is like 450~500 Euros (don't know the exact value atm) per month working a regular 8 hours per day which means they earn 2,81~3,125 Euros per hour (it's not 100% accurate but you get the idea). Now from this point of view 10 dollars per lesson (1 hour) is just outrageous. If he did this like 4 hours a day (NOT incluiding weekends!) he'd make 800$ per month giving "bw lessons" srsly . _.a Put it in perspective. A typical job here in the US would pay you $10 to do just about anything (at least here in California, the minimum wage is over $8 so 10 is no far stretch) Guitar lessons I've seen range from $45-150 for a half hour to hour long lesson. And people pay for it. Are all these guitar playing teachers completely excellent? Have they won acclaim in their field, been in top bands that released records worthy of praise and awards? Probably some of them don't even teach good technique, as some of you seem to want to bash inc for before even thinking to ask a student. But people still pay for lessons from these guys for guitar. I don't know if the comparison is amazing but gaming and musicianship as hobbies seem related in many ways. I want to take guitar lessons despite the fact that I don't have the income to do so. What inc's doing is a STEAL and the only scam he's pulling is the one on himself for how little he asks for these lessons. $800/month is nothing to write home about (rent here for a 1br apartment is probably $700-800/month), and I think he said himself he so far is earning about $500/month (which is even less than that.) | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
On January 06 2010 06:43 n3m0 wrote: You got a point there... Anyway I think 10$ per hour far too expensive for 1 hour bw lesson. I don't know about USA but here in Portugal minimum wage is like 450~500 Euros (don't know the exact value atm) per month working a regular 8 hours per day which means they earn 2,81~3,125 Euros per hour (it's not 100% accurate but you get the idea). Now from this point of view 10 dollars per lesson (1 hour) is just outrageous. If he did this like 4 hours a day (NOT incluiding weekends!) he'd make 800$ per month giving "bw lessons" srsly . _.a It is difficult to understand the differences in living standards if you don't experience it. How much do you pay in rent a month? For example: Random 3rd world country: $10? Honestly I don't know. Midwest US: $400 San Francisco, Seattle: $1000 Manhattan, London, Tokyo: $3000+ See the difference? That is why many people would find $10/hr to be really cheap. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
On January 06 2010 07:08 Tenryu wrote: Even though i can afford $10 for going to movie quite easily, i think its outrageous. If Incontrol was teaching giant groups of like 80-100 people (i dunno how many seats are in the average theatre) then he would probably charge a small fraction of his current price, meanwhile for a private party to use a screen at cineplex odeon it's like $180 for 2 hours T_T http://www.cineplex.com/Theatres/Birthdays/XBoxParties.aspx | ||
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n3m0
Portugal247 Posts
On January 06 2010 06:56 Hot_Bid wrote: You think $10/hour is too expensive for specialized, one on one teaching? Piano and language teachers charge far more per hour, and they probably are nowhere near as good at their skills as Inc is at BW. People in the top of their fields charge far more, hundreds an hour, to tutor one person. I think the price is actually outrageously low rather than high, obviously $10 is a lot to a minimum wage worker but obviously Incontrol isn't targeting some guy that works at a grocery store to feed his family. We're talking people who play StarCraft for recreation -- if they can afford a computer and regular internet, they can afford $10. You have a warped sense of "expensive" if you think $10/hr is "outrageous," have you ever had to pay for a lawyer or doctor? Its far, far more expensive. At $10 for one lesson, it's basically the same as going to a movie, and you don't think movies are outrageous right? oh lol... How can you compare a language teacher, a lawyer or even a doctor's work to a player "teaching" you how to improve in starcraft? First of all, learning a language improves considerably your future, not only as far as your curriculum is concerned but also allows you to work abroad. For example, here in Portugal if you have done a CPE exam (certificate of proficiency in english) your chances of getting a good job improve drastically. Secondly you pay for a doctor/lawyer if you have a desease or some sort of problems with teh law.. Hence you there's no way in hell you can compare the amount a doctor (lawyer etc, etc) can charge for a "session" (let's say) to the amount a guy can charge you for a lesson on how to improve your gaming in a game you'll never be the best or even top50 outside korea.. So I guess my point remains intact. All the jobs you mentioned above are essecial. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Vequeth
United Kingdom1116 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
my point is that a person doesn't have to be an S-class player to teach you starcraft, and originally i'd like to say "he just has to be better than you." That isn't completely true, though. I'm sure that Flash could learn a few things from boxer. Is Flash better than boxer? of course he is. InControl is an old school player who is still performing very well. He is definitely in the top 48 foreigners, and if you scroll up the list of people who qualified ahead of him (for TSL2), i don't know anyone who would be a better TEACHER. We're talking about practice. PRACTICE. Lastly, someone said "well he's zerg! he can't teach me teh otha racez" What if you need desperate help PvZ because you have bad timing on making cannons in your main vs 2 hatch mutalisks? What if you just cant seem to fend off those pesky lurker drops at your 4th and 5th bases in late game and you tend to lose 30 probes in 10 seconds when you're playing someone really good? I'm sure he would be able to roll over anyone posting in this thread (or almost anyone) by doing a strategy which you would know previously, probably one you need help on. Have a problem pulling off a 1 rax fast expansion vs Z on a certain map? i'm sure he could tell you what you're doing wrong. Furthermore, he is not an idiot. If you need help PvT, I'm sure he is a good enough. he has 30 students. he can tell you that your macro is bad, your strategy is flawed, or you aren't using your units correctly. I'd also bet that his offraces would beat most if not all C/C+/B-/B maybe some B+ level players (i can think of 1 offhand who hit B+ last season that he could curbstomp by offracing) I'm not going to rant on this all night, but i don't see why people are hating on someone trying to train the foreign community. Imagine that InControl wakes someone up to all the possibilities, opens their eyes to the world of starcraft, and trains the next bonjwa where fanboys scream HWAITING for the guy in SC2 as he dominates the pro-korean scene. I'm not saying it will happen, but wouldn't that be amazing? | ||
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
Think of it like this- You spend 50 dollars for 6 hours of high end training doing something we all do ANYWAYS. If you are going to spend your time trying to become better, you might as well do it the right way and have fun improving. Think of it as an investment into your hobby, sort of like buying different filters for photography, or stamps for your collection. I can say, I do this now and I've so far enjoyed it a lot. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
On January 06 2010 07:20 n3m0 wrote: oh lol... How can you compare a language teacher, a lawyer or even a doctor's work to a player "teaching" you how to improve in starcraft? First of all, learning a language improves considerably your future, not only as far as your curriculum is concerned but also allows you to work abroad. For example, here in Portugal if you have done a CPE exam (certificate of proficiency in english) your chances of getting a good job improve drastically. Secondly you pay for a doctor/lawyer if you have a desease or some sort of problems with teh law.. Hence you there's no way in hell you can compare the amount a doctor (lawyer etc, etc) can charge for a "session" (let's say) to the amount a guy can charge you for a lesson on how to improve your gaming in a game you'll never be the best or even top50 outside korea.. So I guess my point remains intact. All the jobs you mentioned above are essecial. Ok, then what about instrument tutors? As other people in this topic already said, piano/guitar/etc. teachers charge far more than $10 per hour and they are far worse at what they do comparatively than inc is at Starcraft. And most people who take guitar lessons (fortunately) do not go on to become Steve Vai. | ||
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n3m0
Portugal247 Posts
On January 06 2010 07:33 QuakerOats wrote: Ok, then what about instrument tutors? As other people in this topic already said, piano/guitar/etc. teachers charge far more than $10 per hour and they are far worse at what they do comparatively than inc is at Starcraft. And most people who take guitar lessons (fortunately) do not go on to become Steve Vai. There are small diferences, no matter how small they exist. Many people paying a tutor to learn an instrument, dream to be a musician even if they are not the best, or even famous, they can still live their lives as musicians in an orchestra for instance. Others just do it as a hobby, nevertheless will always count for something even if it's just to put it in your curriculum. In contrast, what would you get for your starcraft skills? Important note: Do not flame please. I got nothing againt Incontrol, actually I think he's a good player. I'm just stating my opinion about this matter. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On January 06 2010 07:20 n3m0 wrote: oh lol... How can you compare a language teacher, a lawyer or even a doctor's work to a player "teaching" you how to improve in starcraft? First of all, learning a language improves considerably your future, not only as far as your curriculum is concerned but also allows you to work abroad. For example, here in Portugal if you have done a CPE exam (certificate of proficiency in english) your chances of getting a good job improve drastically. Secondly you pay for a doctor/lawyer if you have a desease or some sort of problems with teh law.. Hence you there's no way in hell you can compare the amount a doctor (lawyer etc, etc) can charge for a "session" (let's say) to the amount a guy can charge you for a lesson on how to improve your gaming in a game you'll never be the best or even top50 outside korea.. So I guess my point remains intact. All the jobs you mentioned above are essecial. Damnit QuakerOats already pointed out what I was gonna say, but ok here it is again: Lets compare it to musical training: I pay 50€ for one hour of guitar lesson. And by one hour I dont mean 60, I mean 45 minutes. Thats over 85$ per 60 minutes of training. Is my guitarist one of the 10 best guitar players in the entire country? Most certainly not. Is Incontrol one of the 10 best players in the USA? Without a doubt. So is incontrol's pricing of 10$ an hour really so outrageous? Fuck no. P.S. I study medicine and learn the guitar as a hobby. Just like I play starcraft as a hobby. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
I think you're nice.  | ||
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
On January 06 2010 07:45 n3m0 wrote: There are small diferences, no matter how small they exist. Many people paying a tutor to learn an instrument, dream to be a musician even if they are not the best, or even famous, they can still live their lives as musicians in an orchestra for instance. Others just do it as a hobby, nevertheless will always count for something even if it's just to put it in your curriculum. In contrast, what would you get for your starcraft skills? Important note: Do not flame please. I got nothing againt Incontrol, actually I think he's a good player. I'm just stating my opinion about this matter. That's what I'm talking about, the people who play instruments as a hobby (and there are many of them). They're not paying >$50 an hour to "put it in their curriculum." They're paying it because they enjoy doing it and they enjoy improving. Same applies to SC. | ||
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n3m0
Portugal247 Posts
One thing is for sure, I've met some people who are now good players back when they were C- midgets. I can assure you they didn't pay anyone to improve their skill yet they turned that C- into an A- in a bit more than 1 year. It's all about establishing a goal, play a lot and learn from your mistakes. If you get stuck in a situation you can't surpass on your own, just watch good players replays, you'll eventually find the key to your problem  | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
People dont realize how much time out of your day it takes. You simply cant do everything for free. If I helped even half the people who asked ME for it I'd have no free time. I can only imagine how it would be for someone who is actually decent at the game. Regardless, keep it up. | ||
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