SCBW Coaching: Update 3 - Page 4

On January 06 2010 05:08 Scooge wrote:


If you have other marketable skills or abilities (like poker), this price is low, but for most college students in America 10 USD an hour and the ability to set your own schedule is an ideal job. Internships rarely pay that much more and most are forced to work for minimum wage in the service sector.

You're also assuming other good SC players are from developed western countries. 10 USD an hour for someone from Peru, Chile, etc.. which have large amounts of good players is a decent return.

The reason people don't do it is because the demand is extremely low.

On January 06 2010 05:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


You speak of demand as if you have any idea what the demand is for coaching in the foreign SCBW scene.

You have no idea what the demand is.

The reason more people aren't doing it is because it is hard work. And please, don't bother wasting time comparing it to a desk job or manual labor.. I am not saying this is one of the hardest jobs on earth or anywhere near it.. I am saying in a community based on a game coaching someone for multiple hours on something you already know is less than recreational and is work.

On January 06 2010 05:29 Scooge wrote:


What? Where did I say anything about this not being a job. It's a job, it's a good job. People aren't doing it because of demand, you can argue all you want, but if the demand were there, MANY more people would jump at this. You're not the only one in this economy who can't find a better job and would resort to this.

Others have tried this and quit because of lack of people willing to pay (Elky, Grr, etc..). Please tell me all about the thousands lining up to take lessons.

On January 06 2010 05:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


Everything is relative. Elky/Grrrr... were what, 5 maybe 6 years ago? I, unlike you, wouldn't comment on something I don't know about.. what I do know is NOW I have given over 200 hours of sessions to over 30 individuals in roughly 4 months. Could I live off of this? Nope. So sure, comparing to a real job this isn't experiencing "high demand" but relative to what you are saying I think you are ignorant on the actual level or you are misrepresenting what you are trying to say. There is enough "demand" for me to have 4-5 sessions a week which is a part-time job. I consider that "good demand."

Anyways I don't care to defend this point as it is pretty meaningless. Just was taken aback by your reasoning but you seem to enjoy cross applying things that really have no connection and extracting logic from it so I will give you the opportunity for the final word then close out this argument (as far as I am concerned).

On January 06 2010 05:31 Tenryu wrote:
In my personal opinion, $10/hour is alot and i find it ridicolous people are comparing the prices of tutoring for Billiards/Poker with BW. The average player definetly earns more money playing Billiards/Poker and will definitely win their money back. As in BW however, its a one-way ticket. Only thing your getting back is an improvement on the game. Which is fine, however, be realistic. Your definetly going to have to pay for more then 1 lesson, no matter how good the teacher 1 or even 10 hours of lessons wont turn a D player into a B player in a span of weeks. BW is difficult in ways and takes definitely alot of hours to learn and properly execute.

But if someone is willing to $10/hour then its up to them. I dont care, just wanted to voice my opinion on all the tutoring shit going around.

And before i get flamed, i'll like to add this is post is just about the whole $$ for lesson scene going around in BW. I am in no way talking negatively bout Incontrol or his lessons. Its an opinion.

On January 06 2010 05:45 VorcePA wrote:


Perhaps $10 / hourly is a lot in Iraq, which is going through a rougher economic change than many other developed/developing countries, but... I dunno. I don't know anyone in the city I live in that would think 10 US dollars would be anything substantial. I want to take lessons from incontrol but I have to wait to start my new job in a few weeks, where I'll be making, minimum, $20 an hour teaching. The more students I have, the more money I make, too, so really, I'm going to be making quite a bit more than that. At worst, it'll take me a half hour to pay for a full hour of inc's services. Sweet deal to me, as I have enormous admiration for his skills, and I'm going to work less for the time he puts in.

On January 06 2010 05:29 Scooge wrote:
Others have tried this and quit because of lack of people willing to pay (Elky, Grr, etc..). Please tell me all about the thousands lining up to take lessons.

On January 06 2010 05:53 Tenryu wrote:


Ok i guess im just inexperienced in this sort of topic considering ive played the game since 98'. I know most people bitch about the price of MMO's being around 12-15$ a month so in comparison in that same aspect it felt as in just 1 hour on a lesson on a game that takes countless hours improve and master, it felt a bit too much.

Also i dont live in Iraq, im currently deployed. For myself, i can afford 10$/hour quite easily. But i wasnt really talking bout myself.

On January 06 2010 00:12 micronesia wrote:

I disagree both with your message and method of delivery. If he wants to offer lessons for sale, that's fine. If he does a good job and it's worth it then people will pay (as they are doing apparently). If you are right and he isn't good enough at sc for this, and he's being greedy, then people shouldn't pay for his lessons. If people want his lessons and are satisfied then you have no right to complain.

You could make the argument that he shouldn't use TL as his ad venue but I even disagree with you there.

On January 05 2010 23:38 Chill wrote:

You're right - it's greedy to offer an optional service in exchange for payment. Wait, what?

On January 06 2010 05:42 Scooge wrote:

As simple as I can:

You don't realize what sort of demand is necessary to create a real market for something like this. You give yourself too much credit when you say the difficulty of this job is why there are so few people willing to do it.

You're the only source for this service during this 4 month period and you had 30 customers. Imagine if 5 more people offered services how much that would cut into your customer base. 10 more? 15 more? There are hundreds and hundreds of B+ foreigners, many from underdeveloped countries who would do this for 10 USD. There is not enough demand to support a market for this. That is why more people aren't willing to do it, not because it's a hard job, not because it pays low.

On January 06 2010 05:31 Tenryu wrote:
In my personal opinion, $10/hour is alot and i find it ridicolous people are comparing the prices of tutoring for Billiards/Poker with BW. The average player definetly earns more money playing Billiards/Poker and will definitely win their money back. As in BW however, its a one-way ticket. Only thing your getting back is an improvement on the game. Which is fine, however, be realistic. Your definetly going to have to pay for more then 1 lesson, no matter how good the teacher 1 or even 10 hours of lessons wont turn a D player into a B player in a span of weeks. BW is difficult in ways and takes definitely alot of hours to learn and properly execute.

But if someone is willing to $10/hour then its up to them. I dont care, just wanted to voice my opinion on all the tutoring shit going around.

And before i get flamed, i'll like to add this is post is just about the whole $$ for lesson scene going around in BW. I am in no way talking negatively bout Incontrol or his lessons. Its an opinion.

On January 06 2010 06:23 n3m0 wrote:
I agree with tenryu... and imho this is nothing but a scam.. how many hours would it take to bring a D+ player to B rank (which doesn't mean nothing these days?).

I don't understand why would ppl pay to improve their gameplay in a 10 yo game knowing that they will never earn that money back playing bw... srsly either they have deep pockets and got nothing else to do or they are stupid.

The best way to improve is to play alot and learn from your own mistakes. I know a guy who went from D to B- rank in 2 seasons all due to his hardwork.

On January 06 2010 06:18 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
And yes Chill, you make a good argument, this is not mandatory service it is optional, but its the same dilemma with the donation threads. Yes, it is optional and no one is required to do it and those who WANT to do it have the right to do so. However should we allow TL to become polluted with these threads? That I don't know. I mean while we could argue that inc has contributed a lot he hasn't done too much except upload a bunch of replays (which is good and all) but when people like gretorp/Lzgamer have streamed hours upon hours of video for us to watch it isn't fair to say he earned something like this over them when I think most would agree having constantly streamed games with commentary is better than just uploaded reps and a high post count.

On January 06 2010 06:23 n3m0 wrote:
I agree with tenryu... and imho this is nothing but a scam.. how many hours would it take to bring a D+ player to B rank (which doesn't mean nothing these days?).

I don't understand why would ppl pay to improve their gameplay in a 10 yo game knowing that they will never earn that money back playing bw... srsly either they have deep pockets and got nothing else to do or they are stupid.

The best way to improve is to play alot and learn from your own mistakes. I know a guy who went from D to B- rank in 2 seasons all due to his hardwork.

On January 06 2010 06:31 Pooshlmer wrote:


You act like the blog section is some holy bastion of rational, interesting discourse. Half the threads in there are garbage or have a really, really narrow audience.

On January 06 2010 06:30 Pokebunny wrote:


People pay private sports coaches much more per hour, and they aren't even pros usually. Why is this any different?



I'm never gonna be a professional athlete, but I've paid for a couple private lessons. I improve naturally, but obviously speeding up the process and seeing yourself improve is enjoyable, at least for many people.

On January 06 2010 06:34 Tenryu wrote:


Well although i dont see the point of it, in other ways i can see how others do. They love the game, they want to get better. If paying someone to teach them will make them think/feel better at the game then by all means they should do it. Its their money . I guess its more of a personal preference, as with everything else.

I wouldnt consider this a scam though.

On January 06 2010 06:43 n3m0 wrote:


You got a point there...

Anyway I think 10$ per hour far too expensive for 1 hour bw lesson.

I don't know about USA but here in Portugal minimum wage is like 450~500 Euros (don't know the exact value atm) per month working a regular 8 hours per day which means they earn 2,81~3,125 Euros per hour (it's not 100% accurate but you get the idea). Now from this point of view 10 dollars per lesson (1 hour) is just outrageous.

If he did this like 4 hours a day (NOT incluiding weekends!) he'd make 800$ per month giving "bw lessons" srsly . _.a