EPTOne could say it's little tricky since SC2 is at it's dawn.
However Liquipedia couldn't be carged for, because the contributors theiselves would be the rightful owners of their intelectual property.
SCBW Coaching: Update 3 - Page 3
| Blogs > {88}iNcontroL |
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LastWish
2015 Posts
One could say it's little tricky since SC2 is at it's dawn. However Liquipedia couldn't be carged for, because the contributors theiselves would be the rightful owners of their intelectual property. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On January 06 2010 01:49 ven wrote: It's the other way around. You're the one missing something. Also, you can learn pretty much anything on your own but in most cases it'll be a lot quicker if you're taught. How am I missing something if I beat most people I play, I just don't understand how they lose if they saw the same shots and opportunities I did... Unless I just execute better? | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On January 05 2010 20:59 BaltA wrote: Do you help only Zerg players, because ur Zerg obviously, or do u know everything about every race? read the links he provided | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On January 06 2010 01:14 Smuft wrote: This is a steal imo. Incontrol has probably spent in the neighborhood of 5000 hours (about the time it takes to get a degree) playing the game as well as being a proven top player in the game. Someone with these credentials in any other discipline would be charging much more. Accomplished Chess teachers 40+ (closer to 100+ for grandmaster level), billiards 50+ / hour, a poker coach is 100+ and that's for low stakes, a top player will run you 300+ / hour. That should help put Incontrol's measly 7.50 into perspective. Imo he should raise it. Best post so far. Supply vs demand, nothing more, nothing less. If people pay for it, it's worth it. Coaching poker for me at that price would be shooting myself in the foot, people pay more, am I greedy now, too? =P Oh, also, @ inc: I'd defintly raise the price to 20$+. 10$/h is lower than a shitjob at a mall. Not something a person with years of practice and knowledge should get for teaching other people. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
I'm not saying tutoring is bad, but I'm not a fan of the money aspect of it in this case. 99% of the players who pay to get lessons will not make a cent from Starcraft. Also, what does inc teach? Foreign (as opposed to the gosu korean) styles of SC? Low apm play? You don't just "teach" Starcraft, you teach it in a certain way, and is it a good way? Incontrol is a pretty good SC player, I'm not saying he isn't, but he plays the game in his own way just like everyone else. Also, SC is alot about mechanics these days and incontrols mechanics aren't all that impressive. Also the fact that incontrol is a respected member of the community makes it easy for him to get customers, people who hover at D level and who will never amount to anything in SC. Potentially he could make ALOT of money off these group of people. While I'm all for free markets, I'm not sure that TL should encourage this. | ||
Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
On January 06 2010 02:34 Foucault wrote: 99% of the players who pay to get lessons will not make a cent from Starcraft. 99% of the players who pay to get lessons for anything will not make a cent from it. Also, what does inc teach? Foreign styles of SC? Low apm play? I don't know, why don't you find out instead of assuming the worst and basing your judgement on it. While I'm all for free markets, I'm not sure that TL should encourage this. Why not? | ||
Empyrean
17052 Posts
:/ | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On January 06 2010 02:51 Empyrean wrote: To be honest, I think a lot of the people who are against inc providing lessons are just jealous of the fact that he can make money off of something that they can't. :/ When it is 10$/hour i feel really sorry for them lol. Funny haters. | ||
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baller
527 Posts
On January 06 2010 02:34 Foucault wrote: Yeah but the thing is that if other good SC players catch on to this (why aren't they btw?) the market will be flooded and prices will eventually drop so low that no one wants to sit and coach a newbie anymore for $2/hour. are u really suggesting that a community filled with gosu players who have never taken the initiative to coach newbies is suddenly going to flood the market and compete with inc who is basically doing this for minimum wage? and that the "worst case scenario" u outline here is that they will "not want to coach newbies" which is exactly the status quo right now? lol I'm not saying tutoring is bad, but I'm not a fan of the money aspect of it in this case. 99% of the players who pay to get lessons will not make a cent from Starcraft. 99.999% of students who take piano lessons, or painting lessons, or any sort of lessons will NOT make money off that, so are u saying all those teachers should quit too? Also, what does inc teach? Foreign (as opposed to the gosu korean) styles of SC? Low apm play? You don't just "teach" Starcraft, you teach it in a certain way, and is it a good way? Incontrol is a pretty good SC player, I'm not saying he isn't, but he plays the game in his own way just like everyone else. Also, SC is alot about mechanics these days and incontrols mechanics aren't all that impressive. this is stupid because hes clearly getting business so what do u care if others decide to pay him and are apparently satisfied? Also the fact that incontrol is a respected member of the community makes it easy for him to get customers, people who hover at D level and who will never amount to anything in SC. Potentially he could make ALOT of money off these group of people. While I'm all for free markets, I'm not sure that TL should encourage this. shouldnt it be a positive that hes a respected member of the community? its not like hes misleading people or stealing their monies, afaik his students are happy -- have u even read a student saying he was dissatisfied? i dont understand y u are so against it, u just sound like a very negative, haterish person in general | ||
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baller
527 Posts
On January 06 2010 00:47 orangeshines wrote: StylishVods thread - that helped me as a terran player immensly. And probably tons of other people too. It is a wonderfull structured, precise, detailed compilation of information, advice, strategy. The guy has put a ton of effort into it, he has made vods, replays, everything you need to effectively pick up and play terran. All free of charge. EVERYBODY interested in Starcraft benefits. If he had gone the 1to1 private lessons route, I am not sure how many people would have benefited. Other than himself that is. Starcraft owes everything to its community and the community wouldn't have gained anything. If Incontrol has time to spend and a lot of passion for this game he should use his knowledge and insight to do something similar for the zergs not cause complete noobs to waste money. great, tl should stop forcing all its newbies to take lessons then oh wait | ||
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Charlee
United States60 Posts
I think this is a totally legit service and it's nice to see higher level foreigners willing to share. TLDR: Time is money friends. | ||
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Carthac
United States393 Posts
Not to mention the dude is worshiped on another particular set of forums :p | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
1. I can understand people are uncomfortable with someone asking for money in return for a service where the community has experienced tremendous charity continually. I just flat out, understand the discomfort with that. But I'd ask that you take a consideration for the opposing perspective: I am offering, not forcing, to teach individuals what I know and have learned from 11+ years of playing a game for a wage that is very cheap. This hasn't hurt the game of SCBW for anyone, in fact it has made it more enjoyable for many. Why do you care? Has there been a huge influx of foreigners refusing to play noobs unless they get money? Probably not. Are our forums being overran with coaches asking for money? Nope. So why get so angsty when I decide to offer a service that isn't 100% charitable? 2. Criticizing my skill, mechanics or knowledge is pretty shallow logic and doesn't actually apply to the real world. Are you saying all "teachers" in various fields are the best ever at what they teach? No, in fact that is rarely if ever the case. Usually they are just really informed (hopefully) individuals that know how to cultivate knowledge or ability and want to develop that in individuals. I watch more replays than any 3 of you. I play more games than most 5 of you. I compete in all the top tourneys and I do well. My mechanics aren't top notch, so I don't teach MY mechanics. My style is usually unorthodox, so I teach the mainstream style. I don't understand knocking me with 0 knowledge on what I do and basing it on some reps you saw of me out of context from a tourney or worse: a fun rep uploaded. Arguing in this blog is fine. I am not going to offer a service then demand that everyone likes it and has nothing bad to say. That is why at the conclusion of EACH SESSION I ask my student, "If you feel good, bad or indifferent I'd like you to share your thoughts in a review so others can read it (if you are comfortable with that)." And so far, 100% have been mostly happy with what they got. The reviews are viewable in the first link btw. However, bad arguing is not welcome. Posting "lame" or Foucault basically running a terribad argument based on "incontrol sucking" basically is not a constructive approach. I appreciate the discussion and I enjoy people's opinions but please keep it mindful that this has already been going on for 4-5 months and is now completely successful. Saying it is a "waste of money" or bad for various reasons you don't research (I offer all the info you need in those links) is not good posting. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
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stoned_rabbit
United States324 Posts
just my 2cents. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 06 2010 04:12 DyEnasTy wrote: Hey Inc, where do you get all your reps from? All the usual places  I am just pretty omnipotent about it.. I also have a reputation at this point so a lot of people come to me with reps they get from various methods even I don't know of! | ||
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Etherone
United States1898 Posts
On January 06 2010 01:30 orangeshines wrote: I didn't realise that TL was operating on those commercial principles. But in this view, I agree that Incontrol's service, coupled with the obvious existing demand as signalled by the amount of interest generated so far, does make sense. TL doesn't operate under commercial principals the world does. Luckily for us TL in and of it's self does not, and for no reason other than an unparalleled sense of community and willingness to do professional work for nothing in return other than a smile on some people's faces. I think people are starting to take this for granted. InControl won a wcg US, and is a professional level zerg. he is currently in a tournament for with a first place prize of 10k and is on a professional team. to suggest he isn't "that good" is absolutely retarded. If you want to argue whether or not he knows how to teach, ask his former students, don't make up wild conjectures as to how it isn't beneficial to low level players. edit: also 10$ an hour with a shitton of discounts for buying in "bulk" for a top player in any field is ridiculously low. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28775 Posts
On January 06 2010 02:34 Foucault wrote: Yeah but the thing is that if other good SC players catch on to this (why aren't they btw?) the market will be flooded and prices will eventually drop so low that no one wants to sit and coach a newbie anymore for $2/hour. other good sc players aren't catching up to this because the price he demands is extremely low. I wouldn't bother doing what inc is doing for less than $30/hour, and at that point I would be charging an amount I wouldn't be certain my service was worth, so I wouldn't be comfortable with it. complaining about him charging $7.50 per hour (or even $10 if you disregard his discounts) is ridiculous. | ||
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Scooge
Iceland144 Posts
On January 06 2010 04:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: other good sc players aren't catching up to this because the price he demands is extremely low. I wouldn't bother doing what inc is doing for less than $30/hour, and at that point I would be charging an amount I wouldn't be certain my service was worth, so I wouldn't be comfortable with it. complaining about him charging $7.50 per hour (or even $10 if you disregard his discounts) is ridiculous. If you have other marketable skills or abilities (like poker), this price is low, but for most college students in America 10 USD an hour and the ability to set your own schedule is an ideal job. Internships rarely pay that much more and most are forced to work for minimum wage in the service sector. You're also assuming other good SC players are from developed western countries. 10 USD an hour for someone from Peru, Chile, etc.. which have large amounts of good players is a decent return. The reason people don't do it is because the demand is extremely low. | ||
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