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Calgary26003 Posts
On January 05 2010 23:16 Foucault wrote:
I think this is getting a bit out of hand tbh. While it's cool to make a little money from teaching a game, you want to make it into a growing business. C'mon, it's Starcraft.
I think this is kind of stupid, you are not *that* good in all honesty. Don't make this into a way to pay for college or your daily life expenses, that's just greedy. The community is built on contribution and you just want to make a buck from bad players.
You're right - it's greedy to offer an optional service in exchange for payment. Wait, what?
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United States24799 Posts
On January 05 2010 23:16 Foucault wrote:
I think this is getting a bit out of hand tbh. While it's cool to make a little money from teaching a game, you want to make it into a growing business. C'mon, it's Starcraft.
I think this is kind of stupid, you are not *that* good in all honesty. Don't make this into a way to pay for college or your daily life expenses, that's just greedy. The community is built on contribution and you just want to make a buck from bad players.
I disagree both with your message and method of delivery. If he wants to offer lessons for sale, that's fine. If he does a good job and it's worth it then people will pay (as they are doing apparently). If you are right and he isn't good enough at sc for this, and he's being greedy, then people shouldn't pay for his lessons. If people want his lessons and are satisfied then you have no right to complain.
You could make the argument that he shouldn't use TL as his ad venue but I even disagree with you there.
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On January 05 2010 22:53 orangeshines wrote:
Because a defining trait of the Starcaft community was its volunteer contributions, amazing amount of work that some people put in to write articles, bring news, upload/seed vods, write great strategy articles etc.
Imagine where we would be now if those people attempted to monetize their contributions.
It just defies the whole spirit of the community.
It would be impossible to do this for free...imagine the massive demand there would be. Inc can't just give hours and hours of his time for free, time is money.
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though i would not pay for guidance, i hope your students learn a lot 
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I can do this for free - but you won't learn shit.
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No offense, but you're probably the last known player I'd come to for coaching. Your style is messy, you have a lot of mechanics issues, and you're not exactly THAT successful. There's an echo chamber in the US of players your skill level, who are active in the community, praising other US players creating an illusion that some of you are more decent than you are. Artosis does it a lot when it comes to you, Lzgamer and Nyoken. I cry a little everytime I watch a rep of yours and you sit at 3k minerals 15 minutes in.
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So many embittered 100 posts dudes in this thread ( previous banned users probably ).
Supply meets Demand no need to flame Inc like if he was a random C- nobody lol.
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On January 06 2010 00:14 Megalisk wrote:
It would be impossible to do this for free...imagine the massive demand there would be. Inc can't just give hours and hours of his time for free, time is money.
StylishVods thread - that helped me as a terran player immensly. And probably tons of other people too. It is a wonderfull structured, precise, detailed compilation of information, advice, strategy. The guy has put a ton of effort into it, he has made vods, replays, everything you need to effectively pick up and play terran. All free of charge. EVERYBODY interested in Starcraft benefits.
If he had gone the 1to1 private lessons route, I am not sure how many people would have benefited. Other than himself that is. Starcraft owes everything to its community and the community wouldn't have gained anything.
If Incontrol has time to spend and a lot of passion for this game he should use his knowledge and insight to do something similar for the zergs not cause complete noobs to waste money.
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On January 06 2010 00:39 Scooge wrote:
No offense, but you're probably the last known player I'd come to for coaching. Your style is messy, you have a lot of mechanics issues, and you're not exactly THAT successful. There's an echo chamber in the US of players your skill level, who are active in the community, praising other US players creating an illusion that some of you are more decent than you are. Artosis does it a lot when it comes to you, Lzgamer and Nyoken. I cry a little everytime I watch a rep of yours and you sit at 3k minerals 15 minutes in.
Then don't use his service?
And stop watching his reps apparently since it makes you "cry".
Honestly, I don't see why ANYONE would have problems with this. He's offering a hard to come by service for people who want to pay for it. His customers are satisfied, so what's the issue?
On January 05 2010 23:38 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 23:16 Foucault wrote:
I think this is getting a bit out of hand tbh. While it's cool to make a little money from teaching a game, you want to make it into a growing business. C'mon, it's Starcraft.
I think this is kind of stupid, you are not *that* good in all honesty. Don't make this into a way to pay for college or your daily life expenses, that's just greedy. The community is built on contribution and you just want to make a buck from bad players. You're right - it's greedy to offer an optional service in exchange for payment. Wait, what?
Basically this.
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On January 06 2010 00:47 orangeshines wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 00:14 Megalisk wrote:
It would be impossible to do this for free...imagine the massive demand there would be. Inc can't just give hours and hours of his time for free, time is money. StylishVods thread - that helped me as a terran player immensly. And probably tons of other people too. It is a wonderfull structured, precise, detailed compilation of information, advice, strategy. The guy has put a ton of effort into it, he has made vods, replays, everything you need to effectively pick up and play terran. All free of charge. EVERYBODY interested in Starcraft benefits. If he had gone the 1to1 private lessons route, I am not sure how many people would have benefited. Other than himself that is. Starcraft owes everything to its community and the community wouldn't have gained anything. If Incontrol has time to spend and a lot of passion for this game he should use his knowledge and insight to do something similar for the zergs not cause complete noobs to waste money.
Inc made some guides a while ago if i remember.
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And what is this. Inc has contributed a ton to the community. But now that he's offering a tutoring service in addition to that, he's ripping everybody off. Wtf logic is this?
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On January 06 2010 00:49 Conquest101 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 00:39 Scooge wrote:
No offense, but you're probably the last known player I'd come to for coaching. Your style is messy, you have a lot of mechanics issues, and you're not exactly THAT successful. There's an echo chamber in the US of players your skill level, who are active in the community, praising other US players creating an illusion that some of you are more decent than you are. Artosis does it a lot when it comes to you, Lzgamer and Nyoken. I cry a little everytime I watch a rep of yours and you sit at 3k minerals 15 minutes in.
Then don't use his service? And stop watching he reps apparently since it makes you "cry".
That was my personal opinion of him. Of course I'm not going to use his service. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to share what I think or my opinions.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On January 06 2010 00:47 orangeshines wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 00:14 Megalisk wrote:
It would be impossible to do this for free...imagine the massive demand there would be. Inc can't just give hours and hours of his time for free, time is money. If Incontrol has time to spend and a lot of passion for this game he should use his knowledge and insight to do something similar for the zergs not cause complete noobs to waste money.
Just purely ridiculous logic: Someone did something charitable for the community so we should hold everyone to that standard. Nonsense.
I don't think you should tell inc what to do with his free time at all. If someone gave me a free drink, I wouldn't get upset when I don't get another free one, nor would I expect that. I'm happy I got it and I moved on.
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OK Chill, what is next? A monthly subscription fee for Liquipedia access?
Its your logic that is flawed I think.
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This is a steal imo.
Incontrol has probably spent in the neighborhood of 5000 hours (about the time it takes to get a degree) playing the game as well as being a proven top player in the game. Someone with these credentials in any other discipline would be charging much more. Accomplished Chess teachers 40+ (closer to 100+ for grandmaster level), billiards 50+ / hour, a poker coach is 100+ and that's for low stakes, a top player will run you 300+ / hour.
That should help put Incontrol's measly 7.50 into perspective. Imo he should raise it.
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On January 06 2010 01:10 orangeshines wrote:
OK Chill, what is next? A monthly subscription fee for Liquipedia access?
Its your logic that is flawed I think.
The main point of Liquipedia is to be free. An online encyclopedia is completly different than PRIVATE bw lessons with a top foreign player.
I hope you are working for free too. As a teacher obviously.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On January 06 2010 01:10 orangeshines wrote:
OK Chill, what is next? A monthly subscription fee for Liquipedia access?
Sure, why not?
The value earned by TL is the members. By having people put their time in, the content gets better, and TL "earns" more members, more and longer page reads and more hits from it (in this example it is the potential earnings of the website when sold, or advertising revenue).
Charging for services which used to be free would alienate the members and be counterproductive to the goal of any free business - getting viewership to later be sold to advertising.
So while I see no problem in charging for Liquipedia access, it would be a completely stupid move. Further, it in no way relates to the point you're trying to make.
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I didn't realise that TL was operating on those commercial principles.
But in this view, I agree that Incontrol's service, coupled with the obvious existing demand as signalled by the amount of interest generated so far, does make sense.
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Can y'all stop arguing? He wants to make money like this so let him... If he thinks he is good enough to be a teacher of the game then let him make money off it, as long as there are people below his rank he will have customers. If i decided to teach people below C then I could have money off it as well but I wouldn't get business because I'm not as known as Inc is.
PS, what smurf said about the billiards tutors amazes me, I don't really see that game as a game that needs a tutor. I'm not great at it but I can beat most people I play or meet in poolhalls, it just doesn't take that much strategy... unless I see something most people don't?
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On January 06 2010 01:36 GreEny K wrote:
unless I see something most people don't?
It's the other way around. You're the one missing something.
Also, you can learn pretty much anything on your own but in most cases it'll be a lot quicker if you're taught.
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EPT
