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On January 06 2010 19:25 OhThatDang wrote:
I've read the very last page of quotes on this blog and have come to the conclusion that the problem is 10 costs too much if you're from portugal :o
Stop complaining guys there's nothing tooo it shit :/ its not even a scam. Imagine yourself spending an hour talking to a guy over ventrillo or something for an hour trying to help him/her improve I would go insane. Incs working hard here and making a fEw extra bucks. He's not going out there making hundreds
nah that's not it :p you spend 10$ here in Portugal on your lunch in a normal restaurant 
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On January 06 2010 19:12 n3m0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On January 06 2010 07:29 Red_Storm wrote:
Hey Inc, you still taking money through Full Tilt? Yes. And to the guy who didn't want to set up a paypal account I accept money over pokerstars and fulltilt, which are easier to establish. And in general: Some of you are missing the fundamental points of this entire situation. I am offering a service. It is CLEARLY recreational based as SCBW is not an essential aspect of anyone's life. However, people for thousands of years have paid money towards things that aren't essential but improve the quality of their life. If I can help someone get better at the game they have been playing for years so they can win more games or enjoy a higher level of gaming who the hell are you to tell me it is outrageous to charge a fee? Nevermind the rate, the rate isn't even important. I could charge 5$ and people would say the same thing. Point is, don't judge what others spend their money on with this game. I had a guy sign me up for TLT2 which cost him money for no pleasure aside from him getting to support me and watch me play. I went on to take 4th in the biggest foreigner tourney of that time.. did he GAIN from it? Nope. None of you even know who he is.. but he experienced a joy out of it and he paid money towards scbw with 0 return. A lot of you that are negatively commenting on the coaching haven't even read the reviews. If you actually had an inkling of consideration you'd do that, not just make assumptions about something and call it a "scam" which btw is so blatantly not the case it actually angers me that you then later say "I am just posting my opinion" n3m0. Posting an ignorant opinion and calling something important to others a "scam" is not simply "posting" it is bad posting. And I'd like it if you either refrained from doing that in this blog or you took the time to read the 2 other threads including the customer reviews and then tell me how it is again, that I am scamming people when I clearly lay out my services, charge a fee, give a service, and they respond positively. It literally goes against the definition of "scam" when people GET WHAT THEY WANT/EXPECTED in return for a fee. I made a correction from my 1st post, it's obviously not a scam. I don't need to be reading reviews I never doubted you were indeed giving good lessons and that your "costumers" were pleased with your teachings. If you read throughout the blog you'll notice that i'm against this whole idea in general, this is not a personal attack.. Anyway i've shared my thoughts about this matter, there's no need to start a flame war when i'm not even flaming anyone. I just feel sad because some members of this website quote 1 of my posts to call me an idiot.. Anyway what was I expecting, Inc posts something, I state my opinion about the matter (it goes against his idea), his fellow ass-lickers come out of nowhere insulting me without any argument. I'm not refering to everyone, just a few. Again, I don't have nothing against incontrol and i'm not flaming him.
Actually husky hadnt even quoted anything from you at all and he didnt say "n3m0 youre an idiot", he said "the idiots who keep bashing incontrol". You were certainly not the only one critical of incs teaching so how do you know he even meant you.
Only after your weird self defense there you got called an idiot, which wasnt too surprising by then
(not saying that it was right)
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I didn't see anyone bashing incontrol in this thread hence I thought he called me an idiot for criticizing his idea/methods/(w/e).
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how on earth can you be against the idea of offering an optional service...
obviously there are people who think its worthwhile to pay for his lessons. so this is awesome for them.
there are people who dont think its worthwhile. so they dont take them and it doesnt affect them at all.
where is the problem?
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On January 06 2010 22:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth can you be against the idea of offering an optional service...
obviously there are people who think its worthwhile to pay for his lessons. so this is awesome for them.
there are people who dont think its worthwhile. so they dont take them and it doesnt affect them at all.
where is the problem?
There is no problem, people are just voicing their own opinions as to why they think its worthwhile for them or not worthwhile for them.
People are just taking it to literally and think they are flaming inc, when they are just stating why they disagree with this optional service in general.
Kids need to learn how to read or atleast read the whole blog before flaming an individuals opinions.
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?
read n3mo's post on the last page
he literally says he has a problem with the whole idea
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The only issue I would see with it is how hes advertising on TL. He can feel free to make it his sig, or do what Gretorp did or something, but its just something I can't quite put my finger on. Just posting a bunch of blogs on TL trying to make money seems a little, I dunno, wrong? I mean look at all the admins and coders on this site who do everything for free and they never do anything for profit really. But I don't feel its really fair that he uses TL to advertise his lessons while giving very little if anything back.
I mean if he was donating like 5$ of every 100$ he made to TL for a tournament or something that would be cool. He is basically just getting free ad space.
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On January 07 2010 01:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only issue I would see with it is how hes advertising on TL. He can feel free to make it his sig, or do what Gretorp did or something, but its just something I can't quite put my finger on. Just posting a bunch of blogs on TL trying to make money seems a little, I dunno, wrong? I mean look at all the admins and coders on this site who do everything for free and they never do anything for profit really. But I don't feel its really fair that he uses TL to advertise his lessons while giving very little if anything back.
I mean if he was donating like 5$ of every 100$ he made to TL for a tournament or something that would be cool. He is basically just getting free ad space.
^
Yeah, this is what bothers me too. I have no issue with incontrol giving lessons for money but do it more discretely or make a website of your own and you can have the URL in your signature or something.
Something just doesn't feel right about this. Nothing costs money on TL, except for pro-gamer swag, which of course is optional. However, incontrol makes pretty easy money from all the newbies who think that they will become good players in 2 hours.
What is even funnier about this discussion is that some people write down some arguments and the other side doesn't even recognize what they are talking about. "I don't understand what you're complaining about" or "I have no idea what you're talking about". How can this be? Are some people just dumb and saying stuff that's retarded? Of course not.
If it was combat-ex making blogs about him tutoring for money he would probably get banned lol.
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On January 07 2010 00:58 IdrA wrote:
?
read n3mo's post on the last page
he literally says he has a problem with the whole idea
I don't have "a problem" with his idea. I'm just against it..
It's not like it affects me somehow, i'm just expressing my opinion.
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On January 07 2010 02:22 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 01:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only issue I would see with it is how hes advertising on TL. He can feel free to make it his sig, or do what Gretorp did or something, but its just something I can't quite put my finger on. Just posting a bunch of blogs on TL trying to make money seems a little, I dunno, wrong? I mean look at all the admins and coders on this site who do everything for free and they never do anything for profit really. But I don't feel its really fair that he uses TL to advertise his lessons while giving very little if anything back.
I mean if he was donating like 5$ of every 100$ he made to TL for a tournament or something that would be cool. He is basically just getting free ad space. ^ Yeah, this is what bothers me too. I have no issue with incontrol giving lessons for money but do it more discretely or make a website of your own and you can have the URL in your signature or something. Something just doesn't feel right about this. Nothing costs money on TL, except for pro-gamer swag, which of course is optional. However, incontrol makes pretty easy money from all the newbies who think that they will become good players in 2 hours.
It's a blog by "Incontrol."
You know this before you open it, and you really don't have to open it or read it at all. And it's his blog he can write almost whatever the hell he wants there, and he can definitely advertise just about anything.
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On January 07 2010 02:22 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 01:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only issue I would see with it is how hes advertising on TL. He can feel free to make it his sig, or do what Gretorp did or something, but its just something I can't quite put my finger on. Just posting a bunch of blogs on TL trying to make money seems a little, I dunno, wrong? I mean look at all the admins and coders on this site who do everything for free and they never do anything for profit really. But I don't feel its really fair that he uses TL to advertise his lessons while giving very little if anything back.
I mean if he was donating like 5$ of every 100$ he made to TL for a tournament or something that would be cool. He is basically just getting free ad space. ... Something just doesn't feel right about this. Nothing costs money on TL, except for pro-gamer swag, which of course is optional. However, incontrol makes pretty easy money from all the newbies who think that they will become good players in 2 hours. ...
Incontrol offering to give lessons isn't optional?
Also, I don't agree with your argument about incontrol not being allowed to "advertise" on TL. First off, you claim that people who work on the website do it without profit. How people create and maintain the website is contextually irrelevant. Incontrol is using the website, and more specifically the blog section, for it's purpose. He is talking about what he does. Secondly, you claim that Incontrol's blog gives very little if anything back to TL. I disagree. It is a benefit for the members of TL to be informed about, and have access to, the services he is offering. It is easy to skip over Incontrol's blog if you're not interested. The blog is no more invasive than if I created a blog that says "Fuck I love gatorade." By reading the blog section you are already expecting a grab bag of whatever someone wants to talk about.
On January 06 2010 22:50 Tenryu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 22:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth can you be against the idea of offering an optional service...
obviously there are people who think its worthwhile to pay for his lessons. so this is awesome for them.
there are people who dont think its worthwhile. so they dont take them and it doesnt affect them at all.
where is the problem? There is no problem, people are just voicing their own opinions as to why they think its worthwhile for them or not worthwhile for them. People are just taking it to literally and think they are flaming inc, when they are just stating why they disagree with this optional service in general. Kids need to learn how to read or atleast read the whole blog before flaming an individuals opinions.
You contradict yourself. There are not only people posting their opinions about why it's not suitable for them but there is a discussion about the idea of the service in general. I don't know if everyone read the entire blog but Idra is addressing one of the arguments.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Ty Durak, couldn't have said it better myself.
Why is it Tenryu, Foucault and n3mo suddenly think they are the voice of what is right or wrong on TL when Fakesteve, chill, Hot_bid, Sonuvbob, R1ch, Liquid~Drone etc etc etc.. have ALL POSTED IN HERE defending this?
Please guys? We are really straying away from what is even close to the truth.. you have a problem with this.. GREAT I can understand that. But please stop grasping at straws for some kind of final logical death-blow to the coaching concept. There is none. You are uncomfortable with this. It isn't for you. You voiced it. It was heard and argued. Now leave it be. TL has clearly received it fine and there is no inherent damage aside from some discomfort a few people are having with me making money on a website.
You'd think I was pan-handling for fuck sakes. You guys realize I am training people right? What the hell do you think happens in a session? I sit there and go "no, that is wrong. Nope, that was bad" etc etc? NO I REALLY work with these individuals and I REALLY train them. I friend add most of them on ICCUP and continue to answer questions off the clock. I watch reps with them and discuss improvements etc.. I REALLY take this serious and I'd be appreciative if you (the very few that have continued to heckle this concept) would please try and respect that as oppose to try and disrespect that.
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guys be car3fuL ok incont0L is using brayn washing device to force u to send him money on papypal
On January 07 2010 03:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Ty Durak, couldn't have said it better myself.
Why is it Tenryu, Foucault and n3mo suddenly think they are the voice of what is right or wrong on TL when Fakesteve, chill, Hot_bid, Sonuvbob, R1ch, Liquid~Drone etc etc etc.. have ALL POSTED IN HERE defending this?
Please guys? We are really straying away from what is even close to the truth.. you have a problem with this.. GREAT I can understand that. But please stop grasping at straws for some kind of final logical death-blow to the coaching concept. There is none. You are uncomfortable with this. It isn't for you. You voiced it. It was heard and argued. Now leave it be. TL has clearly received it fine and there is no inherent damage aside from some discomfort a few people are having with me making money on a website.
You'd think I was pan-handling for fuck sakes. You guys realize I am training people right? What the hell do you think happens in a session? I sit there and go "no, that is wrong. Nope, that was bad" etc etc? NO I REALLY work with these individuals and I REALLY train them. I friend add most of them on ICCUP and continue to answer questions off the clock. I watch reps with them and discuss improvements etc.. I REALLY take this serious and I'd be appreciative if you (the very few that have continued to heckle this concept) would please try and respect that as oppose to try and disrespect that.
do u really think this is a coincidence? who cares if he places consistently in top foreigner tournaments and has extensive knowledge of starcraft he is still an evil fascist forcing you to pay
what is more conspicous than a rarely bumped blog on TL, i mean he might as well put up billboards. actually, i am kind of inspired by his evil genius plans. i might go as far as to charge 20 dollars an hour for something like guitar lessons, I don't know if I'm a bad enough person tho to offer a service to people who are williing to pay
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On January 07 2010 03:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Ty Durak, couldn't have said it better myself.
Why is it Tenryu, Foucault and n3mo suddenly think they are the voice of what is right or wrong on TL when Fakesteve, chill, Hot_bid, Sonuvbob, R1ch, Liquid~Drone etc etc etc.. have ALL POSTED IN HERE defending this?
Please guys? We are really straying away from what is even close to the truth.. you have a problem with this.. GREAT I can understand that. But please stop grasping at straws for some kind of final logical death-blow to the coaching concept. There is none. You are uncomfortable with this. It isn't for you. You voiced it. It was heard and argued. Now leave it be. TL has clearly received it fine and there is no inherent damage aside from some discomfort a few people are having with me making money on a website.
You'd think I was pan-handling for fuck sakes. You guys realize I am training people right? What the hell do you think happens in a session? I sit there and go "no, that is wrong. Nope, that was bad" etc etc? NO I REALLY work with these individuals and I REALLY train them. I friend add most of them on ICCUP and continue to answer questions off the clock. I watch reps with them and discuss improvements etc.. I REALLY take this serious and I'd be appreciative if you (the very few that have continued to heckle this concept) would please try and respect that as oppose to try and disrespect that.
I never said I was right or wrong. Everyone has the right to state their own opinion and that's what we are doing. Maybe your friends don't agree or just post here supporting your "cause" cause that's what friends do, I(we) respect everyone's opinion as well as I hope everyone respects mine(ours).
I don't agree with what you are doing. However it doesn't mean you aren't good at it and it also doesn't mean I don't respect what you are doing.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 07 2010 05:29 n3m0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 03:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Ty Durak, couldn't have said it better myself.
Why is it Tenryu, Foucault and n3mo suddenly think they are the voice of what is right or wrong on TL when Fakesteve, chill, Hot_bid, Sonuvbob, R1ch, Liquid~Drone etc etc etc.. have ALL POSTED IN HERE defending this?
Please guys? We are really straying away from what is even close to the truth.. you have a problem with this.. GREAT I can understand that. But please stop grasping at straws for some kind of final logical death-blow to the coaching concept. There is none. You are uncomfortable with this. It isn't for you. You voiced it. It was heard and argued. Now leave it be. TL has clearly received it fine and there is no inherent damage aside from some discomfort a few people are having with me making money on a website.
You'd think I was pan-handling for fuck sakes. You guys realize I am training people right? What the hell do you think happens in a session? I sit there and go "no, that is wrong. Nope, that was bad" etc etc? NO I REALLY work with these individuals and I REALLY train them. I friend add most of them on ICCUP and continue to answer questions off the clock. I watch reps with them and discuss improvements etc.. I REALLY take this serious and I'd be appreciative if you (the very few that have continued to heckle this concept) would please try and respect that as oppose to try and disrespect that. I never said I was right or wrong. Everyone has the right to state their own opinion and that's what we are doing. Maybe your friends don't agree or just post here supporting your "cause" cause that's what friends do, I(we) respect everyone's opinion as well as I hope everyone respects mine(ours). I don't agree with what you are doing. However it doesn't mean you aren't good at it and it also doesn't mean I don't respect what you are doing.
So you respect what he's doing but you don't agree with it at the same time.
LOL.
I never said I was right or wrong.
You're wrong. Basically, he's offering a service and if people want it they take it, if they don't want it they don't. It's only ten dollars for fuck sakes lmao. This isn't a war in Iraq or anything man. It's broodwar for ten dollars on the mother fucking internet.
And no, I don't think anyone here respects your sniveling opinion, especially not after saying something as dumb as not agreeing with what he's doing but respecting it at the same time.
Damn Mr. Serial killer I don't exactly agree with what you did but holy fuck I respect you a shitload for being able to get away with it for so long without being caught high five!
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Can I send a personal check? :-)
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Alright. It's not my place to critizise you for giving Starcraft lessons for money, as TL is not my website. I just stated my opinion and I see no need to argue further.
I acknowledge this and move happily on. Good luck
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 07 2010 08:41 tonight wrote:
Can I send a personal check? :-)
Yup :D
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how is the average joe supposed to compete when their enemy has incontrol in their corner? Unfair, much like maphacking.
I kid..
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I think it's great what Incontrol is doing. I can understand the viewpoint that people might think by having some sort of business in the Starcraft realm, you deface the community and make it look cheap, like the respective teacher is trying to just make some money from some lower ranked players. However, I believe that stance is terribly incorrect and it's looking at this with blinders on.
I do agree with the idea of optional service so I won't keep talking about that.
However, I want to just touch on the fact that doing this starts to position Starcraft as a serious industry. Once you start services like this, we note that it is becoming more professional, and it allows Starcraft to be taken seriously in the eyes of potential sponsors and companies. I would even hope there are people that are able to teach much better than Incontrol, as I know he has the capabilities to teach very well, he is well organized, and he has the theoretical capacity to teach a wide range of segments. Having someone or competition in the starcraft teaching scene not only makes Starcraft more of an e-sport, it grows the competitive scene, and drives more players into the pool of competitive players which is great for growth of the respective game.
I'm not saying that teaching implies Starcraft is all of a sudden an industry, however, I do think it is a good discriminator in assessing if Starcraft can be a profitable/marketable industry ie good for sponsorship.
I hope people stop looking at this with some made up moral stance based on what they think Teamliquid should be rather look at the big picture and see it as just a trade of a product for currency, just as progamer gear, or teamliquid shirts is a product traded for currency. Just because this product is coming from a mind of a very capable player, and that product is derived by "free" means doesn't mean it should discredit the product as a whole.
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EPT
