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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
The one currently in question. Are mods allowed to solicit the user base for monetary gain. The thread in question can be found http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=157376 A brief summary is a moderator is advertising a service in which he directly profits financially. Yes he has been a solid contributor to the website, but that doesn't excuse the issues surrounding it. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
If you have an issue with something specific (which is the case here) just make a thread about that very issue, I kind of want to rename this thread folliwing that logic. It's not like there are a whole lot public of controversies we'd have to resolve anyway. | ||
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Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
If I go to an event, I hand out business cards, in a way that seems the least jackassy about it. I strike up a conversation, I make friends with people, and I establish a relationship- I don't just hand a business card to everyone who walks in the door. iNcontrol has a stable reputation as a fair businessman, made an informative post with information that a number of people were looking for, and is well liked by the community. To top it off, he didn't even include a URL to the site, or even tell people that he, himself, was a coach (until someone else brought it up.) Yes, iNcontrol stands to potentially make profit by making a post. Given past critique/drama regarding gosucoaching, though, there were a lot of active users curious of the status of the site. It doesn't matter who posted it and who may make a few dollars off of it- it matters that the public was kept informed, as per their request. Frankly, its posted in the blogs and within less than 3 days will be spammed off the first page of, what I imagine is, the least-viewed section (could be wrong) by a bunch of threads about girl issues or ZvT complaints. Even if it was considered wrongful soliciting, which I'm not saying it is, I think it's far from a big deal. | ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: but that doesn't excuse the issues surrounding it. What is the issue surrounding it? Would we allow it if he wasn't a mod? Yes, we did when he first started doing it. Okay, so what's the problem? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:23 Nokarot wrote: I think you're reading too much in to it. If I go to an event, I hand out business cards, in a way that seems the least jackassy about it. I strike up a conversation, I make friends with people, and I establish a relationship- I don't just hand a business card to everyone who walks in the door. iNcontrol has a stable reputation as a fair businessman, made an informative post with information that a number of people were looking for, and is well liked by the community. To top it off, he didn't even include a URL to the site, or even tell people that he, himself, was a coach (until someone else brought it up.) Yes, iNcontrol stands to potentially make profit by making a post. Given past critique/drama regarding gosucoaching, though, there were a lot of active users curious of the status of the site. It doesn't matter who posted it and who may make a few dollars off of it- it matters that the public was kept informed, as per their request. Frankly, its posted in the blogs and within less than 3 days will be spammed off the first page of, what I imagine is, the least-viewed section (could be wrong) by a bunch of threads about girl issues or ZvT complaints. Even if it was considered wrongful soliciting, which I'm not saying it is, I think it's far from a big deal. It is the policy surrounding it. One central bit of TL at the bottom of every post is "The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff." Him as staff now negates that and does reflect positions of teamliquid and its staff. It is entirely policy. Also, he doesn't stand to potentially make a profit, he has admitted its his lively hood. That is his primary job in life. I get that. I appreciate he is giving a fundamentally awesome service to the community. HOWEVER, he is a staff member. It sets a really bad tone for the website that tries to keep people from profitting off its members (some exceptions have been made) but lets it staff do so. Yes he was one of these exceptions in the past, but the status of staff changes the playing field. If this was a free service, or was being primarily handed on TL by one of the other members, there would be no issue as he isn't directly advertising and TL can escape potential backlash. As for not including the url, it wasn't hyperlinked, it was still there. Every post he makes actually includes a link to both his guide and his site. On October 02 2010 05:24 Chill wrote: What is the issue surrounding it? Would we allow it if he wasn't a mod? Yes, we did when he first started doing it. Okay, so what's the problem? Its a completely different scenario now that it directly reflects the site. As soon as the moderators are allowed to advertise and make money off the community the general community itself should then be allowed to as well. Considering at this point it isn't and overall the staff are held to very similar rulesets as the general members its something that should be frowned upon. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
I literally see no problem here. Is there a deeper issue? It seems like you're upset because you want to be upset or you're worried about some slippery slope or something. Moderators should be able to do whatever the common man is able to do. If someone wants to open a Starcraft business, they can advertise it here. Examples: - kore's store - susies sales - the guy selling plushies - mlg and esl premium streams - gom stream | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:43 Chill wrote: The community is allowed too dude. Case in point: When Inc wasn't a banling and he was doing gosucoaching. I literally see no problem here. Is there a deeper issue? It seems like you're upset because you want to be upset or you're worried about some slippery slope or something. Moderators should be able to do whatever the common man is able to do. If someone wants to open a Starcraft business, they can advertise it here. Examples: - kore's store - susies sales - the guy selling plushies - mlg and esl premium streams - gom stream The deeper issue would be directly it is a mod, it reflects onto TL. Whereas individual ventures are that, individual, separate from the site.. Both susie and kore were providing a service that would be unavailable to the general community without them(note susie made money off of extra donations, not in sales). Hell there are issues around kore's end of it that has massive issues (his is also now solely on his site). Susie was keeping most of her things directly into one thread. Guy selling plushes to my knowledge was one thread as well. I don't know much on the premium streams as well, I haven't watched them. The issue here is surrounding a policy. Should staff who have an automatic respect and to degree trust from user base be allowed to use that influence to make money off it. It is a completely different situation than a forum user who has been here long term and having to earn that trust. Is inc known to people who have been in the community long term? yes. BUT with sc2 we are rapidly growing as a site. People are not going to know who he is but they will see he's staff. It is misusing his title for gain, regardless of if he did it before or not, the situation changed. He has a large group of people he is affiliated with or soon will be (we know xeris is already on board) and could have avoided this completely by having xeris post it. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:59 Chill wrote: I don't understand your issue and I don't think it's objective. How do you not get it? This directly reflects on TL as one of its opinions. By association this becomes not just a Inc venture but a TL basically endorsed one. IF things go great, awesome. If it goes badly it reflects badly on TL. This isn't so and so is doing it, its a TL mod is doing it. Lets use an example. I am a new user who just signed up to the site. I see a thread advertising for a service. I look in and see a mod is the one doing it. Since a mod is doing it, I will think its ok (its a mod), and although I may not take advantage of said situation I will put more serious thought into it because it was a mod. If I did make said purchase, and it didn't go well, I would think badly on not just the mod, but the site as well. It is alot different than a random poster doing this, or long term poster doing it. Being a moderator and making a monetary gain of the forum community is a very very fine line. Factor in he is then advertising it adds to it. It is a very very slippery slope, and as of now we have no official policy on it. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
See #1 and #6 | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:35 tofucake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 See #1 and #6 Uh... completely irrelevant. He's raising a question about something and this is the exact place to do it. Plus we're all veterans here. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:35 tofucake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 See #1 and #6 -_- really? read #1 specifically We are not a "for profit" enterprise. He is a mod doing a for profit enterprise, as a mod it would to a new member feel like it was part of TL or supported by it or endorsed by it. Making it a for profit enterprise. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
It's not like inc registered and was like "hai gimme money". He's been keeping people up to date with gosucoaching at their request. People wanted to know when it was back and what changes were made (lalalalala). | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:41 tofucake wrote: How is it irrelevant? It's not direct advertisement (as so often seen here..hell, the first post is a good example of inc's post too). It's not like inc registered and was like "hai gimme money". He's been keeping people up to date with gosucoaching at their request. People wanted to know when it was back and what changes were made (lalalalala). No he is instead using his name + title (his banling title auto is part of his name hence part of it) and saying "hai gimme money". Him being a mod and his posting reflect as part of TL due to his title. That is the core issue here | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:46 tofucake wrote: Not really. It's more like he's letting people know it's back because they asked. Then bump one of his old blogs or bump louders post and rename it with new relevant information. That would be an update. By making a completely new post alltogether, it adds one more spot to advertise his business. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:50 tofucake wrote: Okay. Then from now on TL can only use 1 post for news and it has to be bumped/updated/renamed every time a new article is released. TL doesn't to my knowledge make money off its posts now does it? Your trying to argue apples and oranges here. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27147 Posts
The issue here is surrounding a policy. Should staff who have an automatic respect and to degree trust from user base be allowed to use that influence to make money off it. The respect came before the staff position. Not because of it. One cannot become staff without it. This directly reflects on TL as one of its opinions. By association this becomes not just a Inc venture but a TL basically endorsed one. IF things go great, awesome. If it goes badly it reflects badly on TL. Second, I think it is apparent with the location of the thread (in blogs) and the preface to the thread, that it is not affiliated with TeamLiquid. It is not endorsed by TeamLiquid. The success or failure of the venture lies solely on Inc's shoulders. If he were to do poorly, or abuse the user base in any way, both his business and his position on TL would be in jeopardy. I have no problem seeing the distinction between his two roles. Because he is a veteran and has proved to be reliable in the past, the thread is allowed. If you started a cooking show, or a chef mentoring program, your thread would be allowed too. You have earned it. By using the word "solicitation" you make it sound like Inc is asking for money for nothing. The blog advertises a service he provides, nothing more. It is no different from the other people who have projects and use TL to make them known. Day[9] is on the calendar everyday and has a long running thread in the main part of the SC2 section, and he is staff. That show makes him a lot of money. TL is not at the point it was a few years ago where moderators were just forum veterans that were trusted to take out the trash. Many people are making a living off of the scene of SC2. It is up to the admin staff to evaluate these instances on a case by case basis to make sure they are reasonable and legitimate. As hot_bid mentioned, we are also in the process of configuring the site to better handle the influx of new business and business motives on the site. TL was never designed for that so it has taken some thought and time. I think when we roll it out it will solve some of these issues that people have. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:53 tofucake wrote: Every new news article has a space up top with an ad banner. Views = money, clicks = money. So yes, TL makes money off of every single page view and ad click. the ad is actually at the top of the forum at all times unless you have ad blocker on. If your not looking at a thread its there. But I see where your trying to go with that. That cash goes to things like, server fees. Unless things have changed drastically, that isn't going into their pockets, whereas in this case I am arguing it is going into someones pocket. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27147 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote: No he is instead using his name + title (his banling title auto is part of his name hence part of it) and saying "hai gimme money". That is not a fair evaluation of the situation. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:50 tofucake wrote: Okay. Then from now on TL can only use 1 post for news and it has to be bumped/updated/renamed every time a new article is released. You are totally missing the point and that is a retarded metaphor. There is personal incentive for incontrol to post NEW blogs and anything relating to gosucoaching, hell there is incentive to even just post considering his signature. The goal being to advertise his site and get more money. I'd even be fine if he actually rented ad space on the top of teamliquid, the fact hes actually making threads and getting free advertisement is complete bullshit. Every news post that is made is a direct result of selfless work done by staff writers to create content for the good of everyone, not the good of themselves. It has to do with the users motivation in doing something. In incontrol's case its completely self interest in promoting his site and anyone else would of gotten banned and threads closed for doing it. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: -_- really? read #1 specifically We are not a "for profit" enterprise. He is a mod doing a for profit enterprise, as a mod it would to a new member feel like it was part of TL or supported by it or endorsed by it. Making it a for profit enterprise. Let me clarify a few things. We have since added a disclaimer to Incontrol's thread. I think that resolves any issue of it being officially endorsed by TL. As for new users reading the disclaimer and still thinking "well Inc is banling, I trust him more" that is largely reflection of his reputation in the community, and that is not gained solely from us giving him a red hammer. First, You seem to feel that "making monetary gain off the forum community" is something wrong. He's offering a service in exchange for money. It is not him asking for donations or TL forcing users to pay to read posts. It's a quid pro quo exchange where users can decide whether to pay for the service or not. As mentioned above, since we clarified that it was not officially endorsed by TeamLiquid, this should resolve any problems of "TL making money off its community." Second, TL already makes money off its community, through website ads and shirts and tournaments like the TSL. We don't hide this, nor do we think anything is wrong. Even if we did officially endorse Inc's coaching as a TL service, I would see nothing wrong with it. You seem to associate some sort of stigma, but I see no exploitation of our users here. We've always prioritized our users comfort and wishes over any sort of money making, and refused any profitable opportunities that may be too intrusive or inconvenient for our userbase. As we've said before, TL's #1 asset is it's credibility with the Starcraft community and there's no way we'd throw that away. Lastly, you seem to be confusing the definitions of for-profit and non-profit. A non-profit site does not mean we make no money. It means we do not exist solely to generate money for our owners and shareholders. TL makes money, but we reinvest all of it into the site and community an in effort to expand it. Even charities often have large payrolls, this enables them to collect more money and further their cause. I'm not comparing TL to the Red Cross or something, but we use all our excess funds for the benefit of our userbase and the Starcraft community in general. I believe that qualifies us as non-profit site. Thus, I do not feel it is correct for you to simply state "if you make a profit you are a for-profit enterprise" because that's not true. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
My only real issue I would like to point out, is the preface was added after the fact not before hand (as this would not have really been an issue had it been there originally). But overall, you have have made TL's position clear on the matter. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
You realize the arguments against inc's post are getting more ridiculous? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:55 Manifesto7 wrote: That is not a fair evaluation of the situation. I would disagree partly because every post he makes indirectly advertises both his sites. Indirectly advertising is still advertising. Advertising is done to draw people towards things. He advertises people to a service he makes money off of. It is very similar. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19035 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I would disagree partly because every post he makes indirectly advertises both his sites. Indirectly advertising is still advertising. Advertising is done to draw people towards things. He advertises people to a service he makes money off of. It is very similar. Way to completely ignore the rest of his post. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:55 Manifesto7 wrote: That is not a fair evaluation of the situation. I think its an accurate portrayal of the situation. Incontrol just uses more words. He is using his status on TL in order to make profit for himself by abusing things that with any other user wouldn't slide. I find it really insulting to anyone who selflessly and continues to selflessly but effort into creating content or doing things for the community. When you mention Day[9] hes not charging for his service at all and not shamelessly advertising it. He was never abusing his status in order to fulfill a monetary incentive. | ||
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micronesia
United States24673 Posts
The question becomes whether or not it will be necessary for a disclaimer to be placed at the beginning of every thread of this nature made by TL staff in the future. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:04 micronesia wrote: Guys don't listen to Hot_Bid. The banling induction ceremony at the Manhattan Marriott was paid for in full by Teamliquid funds and must have run us at least 50k. The question becomes whether or not it will be necessary for a disclaimer to be placed at the beginning of every thread of this nature made by TL staff in the future. I think simply by allowing it on the website makes it an affiliate. Considering how this opportunity is not open to everyone it is showing a personal preference (hence support) of one individual over another. | ||
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micronesia
United States24673 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think simply by allowing it on the website makes it an affiliate. Considering how this opportunity is not open to everyone it is showing a personal preference (hence support) of one individual over another. Inc received no special consideration due to being a banling. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I would disagree partly because every post he makes indirectly advertises both his sites. Indirectly advertising is still advertising. Advertising is done to draw people towards things. He advertises people to a service he makes money off of. It is very similar. I feel you are exaggerating. "Every post he makes" is certainly not an accurate portrayal of the situation. We will monitor it closely and ensure that there is no exploitation of our userbase occuring. However, "hai gimme money" is not even close to a money-for-service enterprise. That is what Manifesto was talking about. On October 02 2010 07:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think its an accurate portrayal of the situation. Incontrol just uses more words. He is using his status on TL in order to make profit for himself by abusing things that with any other user wouldn't slide. I find it really insulting to anyone who selflessly and continues to selflessly but effort into creating content or doing things for the community. When you mention Day[9] hes not charging for his service at all and not shamelessly advertising it. He was never abusing his status in order to fulfill a monetary incentive. If Incontrol was not a banling, he would still not be "any other user." He earned that status through his reputation in the community in the first place. We have since placed the disclaimer and removed any link between Inc's coaching and an official TL endorsement, thus this venture by him should succeed or fail based on Incontrol's merits only, not by his position on TL staff. It is interesting you call this "abuse" when again, it's a user deciding to pay for a service. Would you consider it abuse for a user to pay for a TL shirt? Would you consider Day[9] "abusing" our userbase since his dailies get advertising revenue from wherever he streams it from, and his popularity gains him many paid positions at tournaments? I see nothing wrong with any of these arrangements. Your perception of what is abuse and what is "selfless effort" is skewed. On some level, all of us (Day, Inc, TL) make sacrifices to do what we love. All three entities make money in some way. You trying to fit each one into a separate black-or-white greed-or-selfless box is not an accurate assessment of the situation at all. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:09 micronesia wrote: Inc received no special consideration due to being a banling. Why is he receiving special consideration for anything though? | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27147 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Thank you for the reply and although I may personally disagree with part of it I appreciate the response. My only real issue I would like to point out, is the preface was added after the fact not before hand (as this would not have really been an issue had it been there originally). But overall, you have have made TL's position clear on the matter. Just to note, when I woke up this morning the disclaimer was already there. I assumed he had written it, and without it I can see it looking worse. It should have been included in the original OP by inc himself. On October 02 2010 07:00 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think its an accurate portrayal of the situation. Incontrol just uses more words. He is using his status on TL in order to make profit for himself by abusing things that with any other user wouldn't slide. Please show me where he asks for money. If you think all advertising boils down to "gimmie money" with more words, then you are grossly oversimplifying things. I also don't think there is any abuse in making a blog about something you do outside TL. Other users? Kore had his thread here for months, Susie sold merch, JP has a thread about his off-site podcasts, the list goes on and on. Quite frankly, you are up in arms because you don't like inc the person, imo. I find it really insulting to anyone who selflessly and continues to selflessly but effort into creating content or doing things for the community. I put in hours a day into this community for absolutely nothing. I am not insulted. When you mention Day[9] hes not charging for his service at all and not shamelessly advertising it. He was never abusing his status in order to fulfill a monetary incentive. Day has used TL as a platform to build a highly successful online television show, and has parlayed that into commentating gigs all over the world. It is his full time job. I don't begrudge him for an instant and I think his success is wonderful. But if you don't think he used TL to talk about his SC2 release party, and other events, then you aren't paying attention. He brings valuable content to TL, and it is valuable for him as well. As Hot_Bid said, protecting our users, and maintaining the faith of our community is our number one objective. If we felt this was abusive, we wouldn't allow it. If it becomes abusive, we won't allow it in the future. You are just going to have to trust our judgement on this one. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27147 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:14 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why is he receiving special consideration for anything though? Because he contributes to the community in a positive way. People who do that get special consideration. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:09 Hot_Bid wrote: I feel you are exaggerating. "Every post he makes" is certainly not an accurate portrayal of the situation. We will monitor it closely and ensure that there is no exploitation of our userbase occuring. However, "hai gimme money" is not even close to a money-for-service enterprise. That is what Manifesto was talking about. If Incontrol was not a banling, he would still not be "any other user." He earned that status through his reputation in the community in the first place. We have since placed the disclaimer and removed any link between Inc's coaching and an official TL endorsement, thus this venture by him should succeed or fail based on Incontrol's merits only, not by his position on TL staff. It is interesting you call this "abuse" when again, it's a user deciding to pay for a service. Would you consider it abuse for a user to pay for a TL shirt? Would you consider Day[9] "abusing" our userbase since his dailies get advertising revenue from wherever he streams it from, and his popularity gains him many paid positions at tournaments? I see nothing wrong with any of these arrangements. Your perception of what is abuse and what is "selfless effort" is skewed. On some level, all of us (Day, Inc, TL) make sacrifices to do what we love. All three entities make money in some way. You trying to fit each one into a separate black-or-white greed-or-selfless box is not an accurate assessment of the situation at all. Once again this has to do with shameless advertisement. I don't see teamliquid spamming its "WE SELL SHIRTS" all over the website, on top of that as you have pointed out previously that money ALL goes towards the website maintenance and is reinvested in the site for tournaments and competitions. As for Day9 he is also not spamming the site in an attempt to exploit the user base. Day9 gains money from advertisers NOT individuals. There is much less of an incentive for him to spam the site with advertisements which he doesn't do. On top of that his service started out being for the community completely selfless and without changing anything about his service he managed to make a small profit off of it. Incontrol and gosucoaching aims for purely personal profit and was started just to make profit for himself. I am sure he could careless about how it helps the community and cares more so about being able to profit off of it. The reason BC said every post is an advertisement is because of his signature. I am simply saying I don't think its right that incontrol can freely advertise something on TL that is simply absolute profit for himself. I don't believe I view this in a completely black or white manner, it has to do with the level of promotion an individual is allowed to get away with on the site. Comparing incontrol to TL selling shirts has no merit whatsoever however with Day9 you have a point, but when you look at the original intentions of each "service" you can see the difference in reasons for starting it and when you look at how each one advertises itself you can see the difference as well. In regards to deciding which one is okay and which one isn't you can't necessarily look at their intentions for why they started it but how they maintain it. Incontrol's signature is on the fine line, while making semi frequent blogs about it is clearly crossing it. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Show me shameless spamming. He's made 1 thread for Coaching, 1 for the Camp and then the tournament stuff. In fact, he hadn't mentioned it for a month and before then, he was only responding to other people talking about it. EDIT: I already know you're going to paste 4-5 threads about him coaching BW in 2009. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I want to echo that as with anything, if for some reason I turn out to be a giant scam artist or some community abuser that literally starts forcing people to pay me I would EXPECT this community to out me just as fast as it did other people of similar regard. bloodycobbler has been extremely civil albeit a bit zealous. I don't know what it is but something within the SC/SC2 world makes some people extremely uncomfortable when someone makes money from a service that isn't winning a tourney. | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On October 02 2010 09:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote: bloodycobbler has been extremely civil albeit a bit zealous. I don't know what it is but something within the SC/SC2 world makes some people extremely uncomfortable when someone makes money from a service that isn't winning a tourney. Yeah I've seen/felt this too... | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
I would be more inclined to trust iNc as he's a staff member on one of the most respected gaming sites on the internet, knowing that you have to be well-known and respected before you're even offered such a position. However, I wouldn't hold TL accountable for his failures. I mean yes, if he scammed me, or if his business collapsed and he refused to return the money and showed no remorse about me being shafted, I'd want TL to remove him as mod and/or ban him on general principles. But I wouldn't hold TL accountable. So yeah, I don't see why iNc shouldn't be allowed to offer a StarCraft related service on a StarCraft forum, and I don't think you have to worry about it reflecting poorly on TL. | ||
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