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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
The one currently in question. Are mods allowed to solicit the user base for monetary gain. The thread in question can be found http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=157376 A brief summary is a moderator is advertising a service in which he directly profits financially. Yes he has been a solid contributor to the website, but that doesn't excuse the issues surrounding it. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
If you have an issue with something specific (which is the case here) just make a thread about that very issue, I kind of want to rename this thread folliwing that logic. It's not like there are a whole lot public of controversies we'd have to resolve anyway. | ||
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Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
If I go to an event, I hand out business cards, in a way that seems the least jackassy about it. I strike up a conversation, I make friends with people, and I establish a relationship- I don't just hand a business card to everyone who walks in the door. iNcontrol has a stable reputation as a fair businessman, made an informative post with information that a number of people were looking for, and is well liked by the community. To top it off, he didn't even include a URL to the site, or even tell people that he, himself, was a coach (until someone else brought it up.) Yes, iNcontrol stands to potentially make profit by making a post. Given past critique/drama regarding gosucoaching, though, there were a lot of active users curious of the status of the site. It doesn't matter who posted it and who may make a few dollars off of it- it matters that the public was kept informed, as per their request. Frankly, its posted in the blogs and within less than 3 days will be spammed off the first page of, what I imagine is, the least-viewed section (could be wrong) by a bunch of threads about girl issues or ZvT complaints. Even if it was considered wrongful soliciting, which I'm not saying it is, I think it's far from a big deal. | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: but that doesn't excuse the issues surrounding it. What is the issue surrounding it? Would we allow it if he wasn't a mod? Yes, we did when he first started doing it. Okay, so what's the problem? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:23 Nokarot wrote: I think you're reading too much in to it. If I go to an event, I hand out business cards, in a way that seems the least jackassy about it. I strike up a conversation, I make friends with people, and I establish a relationship- I don't just hand a business card to everyone who walks in the door. iNcontrol has a stable reputation as a fair businessman, made an informative post with information that a number of people were looking for, and is well liked by the community. To top it off, he didn't even include a URL to the site, or even tell people that he, himself, was a coach (until someone else brought it up.) Yes, iNcontrol stands to potentially make profit by making a post. Given past critique/drama regarding gosucoaching, though, there were a lot of active users curious of the status of the site. It doesn't matter who posted it and who may make a few dollars off of it- it matters that the public was kept informed, as per their request. Frankly, its posted in the blogs and within less than 3 days will be spammed off the first page of, what I imagine is, the least-viewed section (could be wrong) by a bunch of threads about girl issues or ZvT complaints. Even if it was considered wrongful soliciting, which I'm not saying it is, I think it's far from a big deal. It is the policy surrounding it. One central bit of TL at the bottom of every post is "The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff." Him as staff now negates that and does reflect positions of teamliquid and its staff. It is entirely policy. Also, he doesn't stand to potentially make a profit, he has admitted its his lively hood. That is his primary job in life. I get that. I appreciate he is giving a fundamentally awesome service to the community. HOWEVER, he is a staff member. It sets a really bad tone for the website that tries to keep people from profitting off its members (some exceptions have been made) but lets it staff do so. Yes he was one of these exceptions in the past, but the status of staff changes the playing field. If this was a free service, or was being primarily handed on TL by one of the other members, there would be no issue as he isn't directly advertising and TL can escape potential backlash. As for not including the url, it wasn't hyperlinked, it was still there. Every post he makes actually includes a link to both his guide and his site. On October 02 2010 05:24 Chill wrote: What is the issue surrounding it? Would we allow it if he wasn't a mod? Yes, we did when he first started doing it. Okay, so what's the problem? Its a completely different scenario now that it directly reflects the site. As soon as the moderators are allowed to advertise and make money off the community the general community itself should then be allowed to as well. Considering at this point it isn't and overall the staff are held to very similar rulesets as the general members its something that should be frowned upon. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
I literally see no problem here. Is there a deeper issue? It seems like you're upset because you want to be upset or you're worried about some slippery slope or something. Moderators should be able to do whatever the common man is able to do. If someone wants to open a Starcraft business, they can advertise it here. Examples: - kore's store - susies sales - the guy selling plushies - mlg and esl premium streams - gom stream | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:43 Chill wrote: The community is allowed too dude. Case in point: When Inc wasn't a banling and he was doing gosucoaching. I literally see no problem here. Is there a deeper issue? It seems like you're upset because you want to be upset or you're worried about some slippery slope or something. Moderators should be able to do whatever the common man is able to do. If someone wants to open a Starcraft business, they can advertise it here. Examples: - kore's store - susies sales - the guy selling plushies - mlg and esl premium streams - gom stream The deeper issue would be directly it is a mod, it reflects onto TL. Whereas individual ventures are that, individual, separate from the site.. Both susie and kore were providing a service that would be unavailable to the general community without them(note susie made money off of extra donations, not in sales). Hell there are issues around kore's end of it that has massive issues (his is also now solely on his site). Susie was keeping most of her things directly into one thread. Guy selling plushes to my knowledge was one thread as well. I don't know much on the premium streams as well, I haven't watched them. The issue here is surrounding a policy. Should staff who have an automatic respect and to degree trust from user base be allowed to use that influence to make money off it. It is a completely different situation than a forum user who has been here long term and having to earn that trust. Is inc known to people who have been in the community long term? yes. BUT with sc2 we are rapidly growing as a site. People are not going to know who he is but they will see he's staff. It is misusing his title for gain, regardless of if he did it before or not, the situation changed. He has a large group of people he is affiliated with or soon will be (we know xeris is already on board) and could have avoided this completely by having xeris post it. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 05:59 Chill wrote: I don't understand your issue and I don't think it's objective. How do you not get it? This directly reflects on TL as one of its opinions. By association this becomes not just a Inc venture but a TL basically endorsed one. IF things go great, awesome. If it goes badly it reflects badly on TL. This isn't so and so is doing it, its a TL mod is doing it. Lets use an example. I am a new user who just signed up to the site. I see a thread advertising for a service. I look in and see a mod is the one doing it. Since a mod is doing it, I will think its ok (its a mod), and although I may not take advantage of said situation I will put more serious thought into it because it was a mod. If I did make said purchase, and it didn't go well, I would think badly on not just the mod, but the site as well. It is alot different than a random poster doing this, or long term poster doing it. Being a moderator and making a monetary gain of the forum community is a very very fine line. Factor in he is then advertising it adds to it. It is a very very slippery slope, and as of now we have no official policy on it. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19259 Posts
See #1 and #6 | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:35 tofucake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 See #1 and #6 Uh... completely irrelevant. He's raising a question about something and this is the exact place to do it. Plus we're all veterans here. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:35 tofucake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 See #1 and #6 -_- really? read #1 specifically We are not a "for profit" enterprise. He is a mod doing a for profit enterprise, as a mod it would to a new member feel like it was part of TL or supported by it or endorsed by it. Making it a for profit enterprise. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19259 Posts
It's not like inc registered and was like "hai gimme money". He's been keeping people up to date with gosucoaching at their request. People wanted to know when it was back and what changes were made (lalalalala). | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:41 tofucake wrote: How is it irrelevant? It's not direct advertisement (as so often seen here..hell, the first post is a good example of inc's post too). It's not like inc registered and was like "hai gimme money". He's been keeping people up to date with gosucoaching at their request. People wanted to know when it was back and what changes were made (lalalalala). No he is instead using his name + title (his banling title auto is part of his name hence part of it) and saying "hai gimme money". Him being a mod and his posting reflect as part of TL due to his title. That is the core issue here | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19259 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:46 tofucake wrote: Not really. It's more like he's letting people know it's back because they asked. Then bump one of his old blogs or bump louders post and rename it with new relevant information. That would be an update. By making a completely new post alltogether, it adds one more spot to advertise his business. | ||
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tofucake
Hyrule19259 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:50 tofucake wrote: Okay. Then from now on TL can only use 1 post for news and it has to be bumped/updated/renamed every time a new article is released. TL doesn't to my knowledge make money off its posts now does it? Your trying to argue apples and oranges here. | ||
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