The hydra is a combo of slow AND fragile AND relatively short range, all this with not-so-impressive DPS when compared to marines, for a 2 food 50 gas unit.
It's really pretty terrible all around and does need some kind of help imo.
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GrackGyver
61 Posts
The hydra is a combo of slow AND fragile AND relatively short range, all this with not-so-impressive DPS when compared to marines, for a 2 food 50 gas unit. It's really pretty terrible all around and does need some kind of help imo. | ||
hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On March 15 2011 10:32 DARKHYDRA wrote: Ok guys how do you spread creep onto your opponent? You know when you get to that point where your opponents army can see a new tumor being thrown down and can easily snipe it without you being able to engage on creep, how do you get past that? Its is unrealistic to expect a zerg player to always fight on creep. Bring overlord to the battle? Do you think the opponent sees an attack coming? And you can't just use creep to retreat you need to use it during the fight otherwise your hydras will not perform as well. Also there is no window were you have hydras and terrans don't have tanks, tanks are earlier tech not to mention if you tech straight to hydras you lose to any early timings(or anything other than 2port banshee) Also, what about if they're actually not terrible and use a scan or observer to kill it them all? Once you're out of silver league, good luck playing someone who won't kill tumors. | ||
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Maybe terrans should discuss the death of the siege tank as well. So sad to see all these units used more rarely. Well it might be just me but i see siege tanks (no i am not only watching games of a terran that is know for going only siege tanks) and hydras way more often, well i see ultras a bit more rarely because zergs often finish the game before it goes to t3 (or they die before hehe) | ||
GrackGyver
61 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:41 FeyFey wrote: wow this thread is still alive ... anyway compared to bw you see the ultraliks even rarer then the hydralisk, you should also discuss about the death of the ultraliks and don't just forget the unit you saw just every game except zvz. Maybe terrans should discuss the death of the siege tank as well. So sad to see all these units used more rarely. Well it might be just me but i see siege tanks (no i am not only watching games of a terran that is know for going only siege tanks) and hydras way more often, well i see ultras a bit more rarely because zergs often finish the game before it goes to t3 (or they die before hehe) The units you're talking about all have strengths. The hydra doesn't really have any strength or redeeming factor, it's a mediocre unit in all aspects. | ||
qui
United Kingdom36 Posts
It is also at a point in the game where it is too early to utilise them in an offensive way. - You wont be able to spread creep quickly enough to enable a retreat - You probably wont be able to afford drop tech in terms of gas and time if you go hydra. By the time you can get any of these two abilities in a way that would allow you to attack with hydras your enemy will have the overbearing hard counter to hydra. I think this is what the OP is going on about in regards to their "fit". So perhaps an interesting indirect buff to hydra would be to make drop tech cheaper/quicker. | ||
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
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aquanda
United States476 Posts
How counter-intuitive that in order for me to beat a flying unit I have to disregard my primary anti-air unit because it gets completely destroyed by Phoenixes? For 100 minerals and 50 gas this unit is awful, and I am going to be avoiding the Hydra as much as humanly possible for the foreseeable future. Considering gas is the main limiting factor in every matchup for zerg, I have a hard time justifying the Roach sometimes, but now I simply can't think of any situation where I need the Hydra but wouldn't rather have Queens and Corruptors. EDIT: Oh, and yes the Ultra is pretty awful in ZvP as well. I mostly use it for humiliation purposes instead of actual utility (which is...killing buildings I guess? lol). | ||
Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On March 17 2011 01:30 aquanda wrote: I'm getting more and more disgusted with the Hydra and it's terrible cost inefficiency. It hit me when my friend performed a delayed 6 gate + 10 Phoenix timing attack over and over for about 7 games. I tried everything from Roach/Hydra, Ling/Hydra/Infestor, Ling/Bling/Hydra and nothing worked. I eventually decided to ignore the Phoenix's completely and make all Ling/Bling/Roach - then I was finally able to beat it. How counter-intuitive that in order for me to beat a flying unit I have to disregard my primary anti-air unit because it gets completely destroyed by Phoenixes? For 100 minerals and 50 gas this unit is awful, and I am going to be avoiding the Hydra as much as humanly possible for the foreseeable future. Considering gas is the main limiting factor in every matchup for zerg, I have a hard time justifying the Roach sometimes, but now I simply can't think of any situation where I need the Hydra but wouldn't rather have Queens and Corruptors. EDIT: Oh, and yes the Ultra is pretty awful in ZvP as well. I mostly use it for humiliation purposes instead of actual utility (which is...killing buildings I guess? lol). I've dropped it completely in ZvP, and it never really featured in my other matchups. I've been doing your style of massive ling-bling, with all the extra gas going into heavy upgrades, corruptors and finally broodlords. It's great. Ever since I stopped trying to use the Hydra, my ZvP has gotten much better =/ On March 17 2011 00:46 qui wrote: I feel like the problem with hydras is the time-window of their utility is very short before they are (too) hard countered. It is also at a point in the game where it is too early to utilise them in an offensive way. - You wont be able to spread creep quickly enough to enable a retreat - You probably wont be able to afford drop tech in terms of gas and time if you go hydra. By the time you can get any of these two abilities in a way that would allow you to attack with hydras your enemy will have the overbearing hard counter to hydra. I think this is what the OP is going on about in regards to their "fit". So perhaps an interesting indirect buff to hydra would be to make drop tech cheaper/quicker. This is an excellent point, especially in regards to ZvP. In terms of what I was saying about their "fit", I just mean that their very characteristics are that of a T or P unit, not a Z unit. There is no place in the Zerg army for a glass cannon - it just does not synergise well with their units, and its not what makes Zerg "Zerg". | ||
sas911
Canada113 Posts
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Logarythm
United States264 Posts
I, of course, am I Master Level 40000 point Random player, so my opinion here is law. | ||
mati
Argentina114 Posts
Wouldnt that make even stronger the Blue Flame Hellion opening?, Hydras being light armor... There is no real hard counter to hellion till zerg hit lair tech. So heavy heavy hellion push wont have to deal with the fear of roaches, just dodging spine crawlers. I think Hydra is a balanced unit for the game, thats is useless on zerg armys is that clear for thouse still saying it would be OP to buff it?, most of us we are not asking for a buff, but a rework... make it weaker here and there, make it stronger here and there, so it remain balanced, but it could synegise with the rest of the unnits. | ||
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
How do helions do against marines in tvt? | ||
Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
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Mr. Enchilada
United States274 Posts
On March 17 2011 09:13 Logarythm wrote: After playing a few games where they have saved me, I can say they're not the staple unit they were in BW (I think the Roach took it's place, maybe?), but against non-Colossus 'toss, they're very useful. I, of course, am I Master Level 40000 point Random player, so my opinion here is law. 40,000 is a lot | ||
Ruhk
Canada7 Posts
I don't play Zerg often, but when I do.. thinking about it, I think I skip the hydra just about all the time, and either go heavy roach, or muta. The hydra isn't bad, but it isn't good enough to be a staple of my play (that what it is) | ||
MuTT
United States398 Posts
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GrackGyver
61 Posts
On March 17 2011 09:13 Logarythm wrote: After playing a few games where they have saved me, I can say they're not the staple unit they were in BW (I think the Roach took it's place, maybe?), but against non-Colossus 'toss, they're very useful. I, of course, am I Master Level 40000 point Random player, so my opinion here is law. So that ONE game where the toss decides colossi are a unnecessary/bad unit hydras are useful. Sounds pretty limited right there. Sounds like it's going to get even better with KA removal. Edit: what toss doesn't use colossi anyway? | ||
Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On March 17 2011 21:26 mati wrote: Just a thought, in about the first 4 pages i read many times a idea (Idra idea actually) to make Hydra T1 and roach T2 (reworking their numbers a bit of course). Wouldnt that make even stronger the Blue Flame Hellion opening?, Hydras being light armor... There is no real hard counter to hellion till zerg hit lair tech. So heavy heavy hellion push wont have to deal with the fear of roaches, just dodging spine crawlers. I think Hydra is a balanced unit for the game, thats is useless on zerg armys is that clear for thouse still saying it would be OP to buff it?, most of us we are not asking for a buff, but a rework... make it weaker here and there, make it stronger here and there, so it remain balanced, but it could synegise with the rest of the unnits. You raise an important point that I haven't seen mentioned as a key change to the hydra. It's 'light' status should be removed and the unit should be left as "Biological". Not armoured, not psionic, simply... Bioligical. | ||
Disarm22
United States151 Posts
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RottingFetus
United States4 Posts
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