The Death of the Hydra? - Page 31
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liewec
59 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
On March 12 2011 03:23 sylverfyre wrote: Sure they have, they just aren't very good at it. Even ON creep, they aren't particularly quick, medivacs will probably get away if the hydras aren't there ahead of time. Hydras off creep are almost as fast as Medivacs, and on creep they are quite a bit faster. They are as fast as a marine off creep and as fast as a stimmed marine on creep. | ||
ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
On March 12 2011 04:22 liewec wrote: No hp nor dam buff needed. The only thing that kills them right now is their movement speed. They cant get to long range dps units with that hp and ms. Their current speed is just ridiculous. Couldnt agree more. Once you have hydras off creep, its impossible to save them if they get into a battle. | ||
Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
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Crooser
United States34 Posts
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Crooser
United States34 Posts
On March 12 2011 04:39 ZeroCartin wrote: Couldnt agree more. Once you have hydras off creep, its impossible to save them if they get into a battle. I hate to say it, but welcome to playing Protoss or Terran. Almost all of our units are that slow! Zerg players are a bit spoiled in the speed department since all their units are so bloody fast. | ||
Serpico
4285 Posts
On March 12 2011 07:46 Crooser wrote: I hate to say it, but welcome to playing Protoss or Terran. Almost all of our units are that slow! Zerg players are a bit spoiled in the speed department since all their units are so bloody fast. they're supposed to be, they're much weaker and inefficient because we have to build them much more frequently. It's part of the design of zerg in general. You dont put a unit that acts like a toss unit in zerg. It just doesnt mesh. | ||
Lomak
United States311 Posts
I hate to say it, but welcome to playing Protoss or Terran. Almost all of our units are that slow! Zerg players are a bit spoiled in the speed department since all their units are so bloody fast Yea, those blink stalkers and stimmed bio are dead in the water if they run into a fight they cant win /sarcasm. | ||
TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
On March 12 2011 07:46 Crooser wrote: I hate to say it, but welcome to playing Protoss or Terran. Almost all of our units are that slow! Zerg players are a bit spoiled in the speed department since all their units are so bloody fast. Your units are also much more cost effective, it's a racial thing. Zergs get fast but weak units and the hydra, this thread isn't saying hydras are UP it's saying they just aren't zerg units and need to be reworked rather then just buffed. | ||
GiantEnemyCrab
Canada503 Posts
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Zystra
United Kingdom79 Posts
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Zystra
United Kingdom79 Posts
On March 12 2011 07:46 Crooser wrote: I hate to say it, but welcome to playing Protoss or Terran. Almost all of our units are that slow! Zerg players are a bit spoiled in the speed department since all their units are so bloody fast. Yeh, but Protoss and Terran units crush everything so they never need to retreat. | ||
Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
so imo the zerg race as a whole is dying out, not just the hydra. heart of the swarm has to bring some powerful expansion units to the table for zerg along with some very good zerg buffs. it is the only way to make zerg a FUN race to play rather then a race that makes you want to break your keyboard in half and smash your monitor with a hammer. there is completely zero variation to the zerg race and most of the time you play defensively the entire time. the entire game your just crossing your fingers and hoping/praying that you dont get steamrolled before ultras or broodlords come out -_- | ||
TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On March 12 2011 04:12 Smigi wrote: Hydra Infestor is NOT good against terran late game. I have honestly not heard anything more false. Are you serious? HYDRA INFESTOR? I have tried this on the GSL maps when they first came out with mixed results. I think you need other units (like banelings w/ drop) to really have a fighting chance. Roach/Infestor is cheaper and has more options thanks to burrow and the off-creep speed. It's far easier to continuously reinforce, unlike Hydra. | ||
DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 12 2011 04:12 Smigi wrote: Hydra Infestor is NOT good against terran late game. I have honestly not heard anything more false. Are you serious? HYDRA INFESTOR? Hydra Infestor is good because you can fungal things in place and then the hydras will outrange the marines (and marauders lose to hydras anyway). And pretty much all zerg units are useable lategame due to the hard techswitches. I mean going muta/ling and then suddenly switching to hydra/ultralisk is going to be effective regardless of whether or not the hydralisk sucks. That's just generally difficult to deal with (though you have to have a huge macro lead to pull it off). | ||
DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about the design of the zerg race that the original SC had, like I believe I read somwhere that blizzard thought zerg units were supposed to be dispossable units that you can just keep throwing at the enemy(probably were the idea for the baneling came from) but that wasn't what the original teams design for them. I believe they made zerg units fast moving + health regen. The health regen was an incentive to save your units that are low on health and the mobility was to make it possible to retreat. This might not have been the way it worked out in pro play but that was the concept. | ||
Ksi
357 Posts
On March 12 2011 12:41 DARKHYDRA wrote: I think that is part of the problem, as a zerg your expected to be up on bases so that you can over run the opponent, but isn't that the case for all races in all match-ups? To gain the economic lead? Doesn't that mean that your outplaying your opponent. If he's on 2 bases and your on 5, any half decent units can be used to over run the opponent. I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about the design of the zerg race that the original SC had, like I believe I read somwhere that blizzard thought zerg units were supposed to be dispossable units that you can just keep throwing at the enemy(probably were the idea for the baneling came from) but that wasn't what the original teams design for them. I believe they made zerg units fast moving + health regen. The health regen was an incentive to save your units that are low on health and the mobility was to make it possible to retreat. This might not have been the way it worked out in pro play but that was the concept. Yes, Dustin Browder completely misinterpreted Zerg from BW. Instead of having extra bases being a bonus, it is now an absolutely necessity just to even survive a single army vs army battle. According to David Kim at Blizzcon, they intentionally made all Zerg units absolutely horrible because they would be "overpowered with inject larva." As if having injected larva was any different from having macro hatcheries in Broodwar. | ||
TheAuditor
United States136 Posts
The hydras were wrecking havock. THeir range is exceptional and they can still take 3? hits from tanks and they were destroying the marines. Just make sure you have a healthy mixture of them, don't mass them. You know, like a protoss unit, get a mixture of zealots, stalker, sentry, immortals/colossus. Do that with the hydras, get 8-12 hydras with 20 roaches, maybe some lings or mutas if you can afford and they shred marines like butter. I honestly think the future of starcraft is more like that. That people will start to find that unit mixtures are a lot better than massing one unit (perhaps if they nerfed the effectiveness of massing just marines or lings and colossi.) ---- Edit: Also, what I noticed from the LaLush game was that he wasn't selecting all of his units and moving in. If you did that they'd be clumped up and yes the siege tanks would destroy them. But if you sent in a few roaches to get the initial shots off (roaches can take 3 shots from tanks, then a mixture of hydra roaches afterwards, you got your damage soaked up initially and enough space and time to make a push with your hydras for them to be effected and to tear it up. Think of it like what zealots do, you send them in to soak up damage so your ranged units can do the damage. Hydras are FRICKEN amazing dps, let them get more than 3-4 shots off and they will just destroy things, it's more about positioning with them and finding that soft spot to let them attack consistently. | ||
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