EPTTL Mafia XXXVI - Page 17
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Actually, I just thought of this: What if we chose the bodyguards based on volunteers? This could protect our blues from dying, as they only have to not volunteer. I'm also sure we won't get 24 people volunteering, as most people have some self-interest or sense of self-preservation. This would be most useful if we wanted two greens to be bodyguards. Anyone who volunteers will be put under instant scrutiny, so this would discourage mafia. Also, mafia would not put more than one member into the volunteer pool, or else there would be a high chance of picking two mafia bodyguards, which isn't really good for mafia, no matter mayoral alignment. The only problem is if we get a mafia mayor, he would have two townies protecting him. This set-up would rely heavily on DTs, as they would need to check and somehow release the information about the bodyguards right away, so that we knew they were town. This would force mafia to have to waste hits on the greens, or else make it look too much like the mayor is mafia. The problem arise though, when the mafia just leave the bodyguards, who are town, to try to get us to lynch our own mayor. What do you guys think? I think that there are a few flaws with this: - the best option for a townie mayor would be to have 2 mafia BGs (or at least one), but this setup will probably lead to him having 0 mafia BGs - the town will see who doesn't volunteer, but so will the mafia, so from the left-overs, they can subtract themselves and have a pool of players, a good deal of which are probably blue Either way, it's not a bad idea. I'm sure that no matter what we choose it will still have flaws in it. It'll be a matter of luck in the end imo. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Actually, I just thought of this: What if we chose the bodyguards based on volunteers? This could protect our blues from dying, as they only have to not volunteer. I'm also sure we won't get 24 people volunteering, as most people have some self-interest or sense of self-preservation. This would be most useful if we wanted two greens to be bodyguards. Anyone who volunteers will be put under instant scrutiny, so this would discourage mafia. Also, mafia would not put more than one member into the volunteer pool, or else there would be a high chance of picking two mafia bodyguards, which isn't really good for mafia, no matter mayoral alignment. The only problem is if we get a mafia mayor, he would have two townies protecting him. This set-up would rely heavily on DTs, as they would need to check and somehow release the information about the bodyguards right away, so that we knew they were town. This would force mafia to have to waste hits on the greens, or else make it look too much like the mayor is mafia. The problem arise though, when the mafia just leave the bodyguards, who are town, to try to get us to lynch our own mayor. What do you guys think? What exact is the point of this? You want town mayor with 2 green protecting him. So should all green sign up for this or should some blues also volunteer. What is the number of volunteer you want to get? Lets assume that mayor is town because mafia mayor will wreck this plan: -If all green sign up as volunteer, then mafia will be like "LOL, lets shoot the other non volunteer." -If some blue are mixed with the volunteer, then mafia can also choose to shoot non-volunteer because they are more likely to be blue. This will also risk blue being bodyguard. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:24 darmousseh wrote: I would think a realistic scenario would be if we elected the mayor, and the mayor selected the two bodyguards. The bodyguards would be able to decline the oppurtinuty. The mayor would have the option to let people know who denied being a bodyguard (if its a good mayor) while hide information if its a scum mayor. Bodyguards would be revealed since its the mayor (who is a public figure) and unless the bodyguards are wearing masks, we'd be able to tell. This is all from a "take it from real life" perspective. How can mayor not let other people know who accept or decline? No PM in this game. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
1<0<2 in terms of mafia bodyguards. Assuming greens for non mafia. Pros and Cons of each number: 1. Pros: -One actual meatshield Cons: -Mafia can kill Mayor on Night 2 0. Pros: -Two actual Meatshields -Mafia have to waste hits on greens -Cannot kill Mayor until Night 3, -Mininum 2 Census Cons: -No information about mafia after BG/Mayor deaths 2. Pros: -We know two mafia after mayor death Cons: -Mafia can kill Mayor at their discretion -No assured Censuses This is all assuming town mayor, which we can't really do. I guess what it all boils down to, is what's more important? Do we want to have the power of census for more nights, or do we want two assured mafia kills? I haven't played with census yet, so I'm not entirely sure about if it's a very useful ability or not. I think it is, but maybe it's not in practice. I think the best scenarios are 2 or 0 mafia BGs. 1 gives a lot of leeway to the mafia it seems, they can direct the game a lot more easily than the other two possibilities. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:19 LunarDestiny wrote: What exact is the point of this? You want town mayor with 2 green protecting him. So should all green sign up for this or should some blues also volunteer. What is the number of volunteer you want to get? Lets assume that mayor is town because mafia mayor will wreck this plan: -If all green sign up as volunteer, then mafia will be like "LOL, lets shoot the other non volunteer." -If some blue are mixed with the volunteer, then mafia can also choose to shoot non-volunteer because they are more likely to be blue. This will also risk blue being bodyguard. This relies on everyone not being selfless and volunteering. I would expect a low number to volunteer. This gets wrecked if everyone jumps at the opportunity. A lot of the time though, people seem to be selfish and want to live, so you would only get a small amount of selection. I'm just throwing ideas out there as the mayoral candidates don't seem to be active right now. I want to get discussion going. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:18 kitaman27 wrote: I think the best bodyguard selection method would be to select two first-time or relatively new players who might not be the most active. This would force the mafia to choose between picking off the experienced players or the bodyguards that they would normally live to late game in a normal setup. This seems like a viable option as well, so long as we are careful to pick players who won't get modkilled. My last game, mafia just picked off experienced and active players and let the town tear itself apart. This could help prevent that for a few nights. | ||
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Beneather
Canada451 Posts
1. KavDragon 2. Kitaman KavDragon has brought up strong points of having scum bodyguards which most agree to. Aswell other stated if the mayor dies and without any death of the bodyguards then the bodyguards are scum and we can just lynch them. Kitaman hasn't brought up any points in his run for mayor. It's all basically saying that we should vote for him because he is better than KavDragon etc. Also saying that KavDragon is red because he's a communist russian etc. These are the only 2 running so far and if I had to vote now it'd be KavDragon since he had brought up a lot of good points and could be a huge asset to the town. There are a few more ideas that Mr.Wiggles had to that I agree with but I think KavDragon can incorporate those in to his plans. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:38 Beneather wrote: Alright we have 2 people running for mayor. 1. KavDragon 2. Kitaman KavDragon has brought up strong points of having scum bodyguards which most agree to. Aswell other stated if the mayor dies and without any death of the bodyguards then the bodyguards are scum and we can just lynch them. Kitaman hasn't brought up any points in his run for mayor. It's all basically saying that we should vote for him because he is better than KavDragon etc. Also saying that KavDragon is red because he's a communist russian etc. These are the only 2 running so far and if I had to vote now it'd be KavDragon since he had brought up a lot of good points and could be a huge asset to the town. There are a few more ideas that Mr.Wiggles had to that I agree with but I think KavDragon can incorporate those in to his plans. RoL is as well I believe. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:26 LunarDestiny wrote: How can mayor not let other people know who accept or decline? No PM in this game. in the thread | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Well it wouldn't be mayor's option, as it would all happen publicly in the thread. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
What? Mayor choose publicly choose two bodyguards. Chosen two publicly accept or decline being bodyguards. Mayor tells us if those two accept or decline bodyguards. NO SHIT!!! | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:18 kitaman27 wrote: I think the best bodyguard selection method would be to select two first-time or relatively new players who might not be the most active. This would force the mafia to choose between picking off the experienced players or the bodyguards that they would normally live to late game in a normal setup. I actually like this idea. It seems like the first thing the mafia does these days is take out vocal and experienced players however by having lurkers as BGs it forces early game decisions from the mafia to decide who will hurt them more, the mayor or the experienced players. It could lead to lurking mafia being picked but I'm still undecided on whether having a mafia as BG is a good thing or not. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
I've been thinking, and honestly the mayor isn't that important. It serves 3 purposes:
At first I was concerned that the lack of [real] opposition to Kav might mean Mafia made an early push for mayor. I'm leaning more towards Mafia just not caring for the role - even as unofficial leader, clues are going to drive debate. So risking a mafia member potentially becoming a body guard just may not be worth it, and as far as I can tell it would be solely to deny the role to the town, as its uses for evil seem extremely limited. Thoughts? Body Guard Theory: While you are alive, the mayor cannot be killed or roleblocked. Mafia-aligned players chosen as bodyguards will not protect town-aligned mayors. I still like choosing mayoral candidates as body guards. Mafia can't afford to gamble their players away as body guards - their KP is likely tied to their numbers, and with clues in the game it's only a matter of time before we find them. However, this only works if mayoral candidates make this their policy - the point is to deter Mafia from running to begin with. Census Theory: Every night, you have the ability to determine the number of any alignment (Town, Special Town, Mafia, or Serial Killer) or role in the game.
Mod question: For the purposes of census, is the tally done before or after night actions take place? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Firstly, I strongly agree that mayoral candidates should be extremely active at least till the election is over. This will help discourage mafia from running, and help root out those that do. To that end, I will try to be as active as i can, giving my views and opinions openly to be analysed. Please note that due to the nature of this some of the ideas I bring up may not be that polished, and I apologize if I make a mistake here or there. Despite this, I believe that it will be clear through my posting that I am indeed town. Bodyguard selection: People have been saying that there are three possibilities for selection. This is only partially true. The bodyguards selection will have three possibilities as far as alignment goes, but role-wise, there are better possibilities than even two mafia. Here are my opinions on each setup: 2 Mafia BG's: This would be a great pick, but the blind chances are going to be around 5% that i pick TWO mafia. The pick is NOT blind, but any way to put it, the chances aren't good. As such this is not a realistic option. Even if I did manage to land one mafia, that would leave me with 1T/1M BG's, which is by far the worst set up. This is a no go. 1 Mafia, 1 Town BG: This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town. 2 Town: This is not the best outcome, but it's the best thing that i think we can realistically realize. It would be much easier to choose two town BG's, than two mafia, and I think that we run a much lower risk of a 1/1 BG split. As such, I think that this is what we should try for. How we try for it is another thing. Assuming that we get two townies in, the safest possible outcome for the mayor is two Vets. I'm going to put my safety first for the purposes of this argument, and assume that the mayorship is worth two Vets. So how might we go about getting vets into the BG position? This is where I start to get worried, because mafia can actually start getting involved. One idea that I'm currently entertaining is asking for volunteers, like Mr. Wiggles was saying. As CubEdIn pointed out, people are usually obey the universal rule of self-preservation. I think that Vet's are an exception to this rule, as they are supposed to be out there, vocal, taking hits. Even if normal townies sign up, I doubt that the mafia would risk wasting KP early in the game. I'd like to hear more discussion on how to get two townies in the position, as I believe that it is definitely the best course of action regarding Bodyguards. I'd also like to hear what people think about the Vet's being in that position. Census In a game stripped of so much information, I think that the information gained by this is extremely valuable, even if it should not be relied on. The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it. Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. After checking the mafia, my priority would be flexible, but would l would likely check the number of blues next, and here's why: Once we know the number of mafia, the there are three groups of people left to check: Blue, Green, and Black. Black will be a small number, say 1 or 2. If we know the number of blues, we know the number of Greens, plus or minus one. (This would also work in reverse, if I checked the greens, but the number of blues gives a bigger hint at the number of black, so I think that checking blues will squeeze the largest amount of information out of the check.) Another advantage to checking blues, is that it deprives the the mafia from gaining any extra information, as I would not make that knowledge public. Other notes: We haven't discussed SK's being mayor, or BG's yet, and let's face it, the chances are slim that they would make it into a position like that. But the last thing I want to do is forget about them. Will there be a clue pointing to mafia in the first day post? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
I realized right after I posted that, that knowing whether a person is mafia or not is more valuable, as we will know that the clue-trail that lead to them is cold. Oh well, I don't think it makes a huge difference. | ||
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