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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss.
On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else.
The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information.
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On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss. Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information.
Trading damn near anything is worth it for a scum player in this game imo.
I think the first census to check the number of scum in the game makes the most sense that way we wont spend countless pages trying to figure out what the number of NKs do or do not mean. I don't think it'd be as beneficial to keep checking their numbers every night with it. It may be more useful to figure out the amount of blues we have to discern better plans of action, but I'm not entirely sure yet.
Also just popping into to say I'm alive hii
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On January 24 2011 07:48 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss. On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information. Trading damn near anything is worth it for a scum player in this game imo. I think the first census to check the number of scum in the game makes the most sense that way we wont spend countless pages trying to figure out what the number of NKs do or do not mean. I don't think it'd be as beneficial to keep checking their numbers every night with it. It may be more useful to figure out the amount of blues we have to discern better plans of action, but I'm not entirely sure yet. Also just popping into to say I'm alive hii
The only thing about blues is it might be nicer to keep the information restricted to the mayor and maybe others if a town circle forms. It almost seems like it would help scum more than town to know the number of blues still alive. If I'm wrong, could someone tell me how knowing blue numbers helps town? It would also be good to check mafia a couple of times, because if the number changes and their kp changes at the same time, then we'll be able to figure out their KP formula and won't need to census them anymore as we'll know the #ofmafia +/- 1.
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On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss. Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information.
Yes, trading a townie for a mafia is a good trade, but I think that the mayor was given an informational power that should not so carelessly be thrown away. I do not agree that trading any one person would be worth it however. For instance, if there was a DT in the mayor seat, i think that it would be worth one mafia. (Note, this is NOT a claim, so please don't hound me as if it were.)
Also, I'd check the number of mafia first. If the number is odd, then the number of KP shown the next night will tell us if we were right or not. It would be a waste to use the Mayor's power to double check this.
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On January 24 2011 08:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
It almost seems like it would help scum more than town to know the number of blues still alive. If I'm wrong, could someone tell me how knowing blue numbers helps town? It would also be good to check mafia a couple of times, because if the number changes and their kp changes at the same time, then we'll be able to figure out their KP formula and won't need to census them anymore as we'll know the #ofmafia +/- 1.
The number of blues will can help the town because we will have a rough idea what we are up against. We can assume that the game is balanced, so if there are a bajillion blue roles, we know that tons of claims, and lots of mafia are likely. The information would NOT be made public, and might not even be given to the masons.
The general rule for mafia KP = Mafia/2 (rounded up). The host decided not to reveal this information, so it's possible that it will change, but we will get a rough idea based off the first check of mafia numbers, and the number of night KP shown.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss. On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information. Yes, trading a townie for a mafia is a good trade, but I think that the mayor was given an informational power that should not so carelessly be thrown away. I do not agree that trading any one person would be worth it however. For instance, if there was a DT in the mayor seat, i think that it would be worth one mafia. (Note, this is NOT a claim, so please don't hound me as if it were.)
Once you find a single mafia, you are much more likely to find others. Since there are clues, the dt becomes even less relied on. I still believe any person, regardless of role, would be worth the trade.
On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, I'd check the number of mafia first. If the number is odd, then the number of KP shown the next night will tell us if we were right or not. It would be a waste to use the Mayor's power to double check this.
If a mafia and SK hit overlaps than it would appear as if we had decreased the kp, when in reality we did not. As a result, the next lynch would be based upon false assumptions. I don't think that it would be a waste.
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On January 24 2011 08:09 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.
I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss. On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.
Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else. The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information. Yes, trading a townie for a mafia is a good trade, but I think that the mayor was given an informational power that should not so carelessly be thrown away. I do not agree that trading any one person would be worth it however. For instance, if there was a DT in the mayor seat, i think that it would be worth one mafia. (Note, this is NOT a claim, so please don't hound me as if it were.) Once you find a single mafia, you are much more likely to find others. Since there are clues, the dt becomes even less relied on. I still believe any person, regardless of role, would be worth the trade. Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, I'd check the number of mafia first. If the number is odd, then the number of KP shown the next night will tell us if we were right or not. It would be a waste to use the Mayor's power to double check this. If a mafia and SK hit overlaps than it would appear as if we had decreased the kp, when in reality we did not. As a result, the next lynch would be based upon false assumptions. I don't think that it would be a waste.
Fair points. I think that a medic might still be worth it, but whatever. I agree that the mayor is not a god that must be saved at all cost. However I think that it's worth something, and selecting a mafia bodyguard is not a guaranteed mafia find.
As far as mafia/sk stacked hits, I can't think of a counter argument offhand, but the point that I was trying to make is that I would be flexible with my census choosing.
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On January 24 2011 07:16 SiNiquity wrote:
Mod question: For the purposes of census, is the tally done before or after night actions take place?
The census tally is taken after all other night actions have been resolved.
On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
Will there be a clue pointing to mafia in the first day post?
Yes. The rule of thumb is that for each person that dies, one clue is left. Of course, there is no guarantee that this will always be the case.
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Just adding one thing: A lot of things may be worth sacrificing to kill a red, but the census ability is probably on the bottom of that list.
If the picks go wrong and mayor is dealt with during the first night, we will have absolutely 0 information from census. So the best scenario would be hope that one of the picks is a blue-vet. That way, it will take at least 3KPs to get to the mayor (assuming that the other BG is red).
And it's not really worth saying what we should risk sacrificing for a scum until we figure out a way to pick BGs. Because if we're gonna pick volunteers, I'm pretty sure neither will be a scum.
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On January 24 2011 08:53 CubEdIn wrote:
Just adding one thing: A lot of things may be worth sacrificing to kill a red, but the census ability is probably on the bottom of that list.
Agreed. I really think mafia would sacrifice a goon for the mayor - all the more reason why we shouldn't let them.
On January 24 2011 08:53 CubEdIn wrote:
If the picks go wrong and mayor is dealt with during the first night, we will have absolutely 0 information from census. So the best scenario would be hope that one of the picks is a blue-vet. That way, it will take at least 3KPs to get to the mayor (assuming that the other BG is red).
Actually, a thought provoking idea. Would it be worth it to have veterans claim, and select them as bodyguards? I'm not convinced that it would work that well, but I'd like to hear some debate on it.
Actually, our best best case scenario is to have the SK picked as a bodyguard...
On January 24 2011 08:53 CubEdIn wrote:
And it's not really worth saying what we should risk sacrificing for a scum until we figure out a way to pick BGs. Because if we're gonna pick volunteers, I'm pretty sure neither will be a scum.
Which is the baseline scenario, which isn't great for us, but isn't terrible either. It gives us at least a day of census.
So, I want to ask this question, and propose this discussion point:
Should we have veterans claim and be used as bodyguards?
And also:
What about trying to get the Serial Killer as a bodyguard?
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I also just noticed something else. The mayor's role:
You are the elected leader of the town. Elections will take place on day 1. When elected, you will publicly select two bodyguards to protect you for the rest of the game. While bodyguards are alive, you cannot be targeted by night hits or the roleblocker. Role checks on you will return “Mayor”.
You have the power of Census. Every night, you have the ability to determine the number of any alignment or role in the game. For instance, you can check the number of mafia total, OR the number of godfathers, OR the number of roleblockers in the game. The valid alignments are Town (returns the number of vanilla townies), Special Town, Mafia, and Serial Killer. All roles listed here can be counted. For the purposes of census, bodyguards, the mayor, and godfathers count as their original alignments and roles.
Normally, the Mayor cant be targeted by DTs either, but it seems like that was purposefully left out.
Mod Question: Can the mayor be DT checked/medic protected/mason recruited?
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On January 24 2011 09:08 BrownBear wrote:
Actually, a thought provoking idea. Would it be worth it to have veterans claim, and select them as bodyguards? I'm not convinced that it would work that well, but I'd like to hear some debate on it.
Actually, our best best case scenario is to have the SK picked as a bodyguard...
I thought about that myself, but the main idea behind why vets are good is because mafia don't know that it takes two hits to kill them.
If mafia doesn't know what the BGs are, then they will probably have to stack hits on them anyway, assuming that they will be protected by a medic as well.
If they would know, then it's only a matter of distributing KPs.
Of course, medics will be able to protect, but do you really want the medics protecting just two targets for the game and have the rest of the town picked off?
Best case scenario? The SK and the GF both as bodyguards (with a blue DT mayor or something). 
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Oh and as for the chances of getting a SK as bodyguard, are really low. I don't see how town could possibly try and get SK or reds as BGs, without RnG-ing.
Unless we try something like "we're picking volunteers" and then the mayor picks two random people out of those who did not volunteer. Which would have a higher chance of getting red/sk, but would make the rest of the town go WTF /hate.
If I manage to come up with a good enough plan to do that I'll run for mayor myself lol.
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United States22154 Posts
As I see it in the early game the SK has no reason to go after the Mayor, he'll be much more interested in taking out DTs and possibly in helping to kill mafia, as his best shot at victory is to have both sides whittled down to a minimum. To be honest I think the best way to select the bodyguards would be to RNG out of a list of volunteers, all volunteers are probably going to be either greens or vets. Having vets claim is a pretty poor idea IMO, the last thing we want to do is give the mafia more information, this is why a list of volunteers is a better idea, this way the mafia has no way of knowing if people there are greens who want to take a hit for the town or blues who are trying to mask as greens. Also I think we need more mayoral candidates, as I see it right now none of the candidates have offered anything that really makes me want to vote for them, and if any of them are mafia they can really screw us by giving us false census numbers, for this reason it would be best if it were a verifiable blue who ran for candidate.
So I ask now, are either of you candidates certifiably blue? (if you are just green or not verifiable, or would rather just not run the risk of identifying yourself (e.g. Vet isn't verifiable as we can only know when he gets hit) then don't say anything)
A verifiable blue is a Recruiting Mason (can add a bodyguard to his circle and then confirm {this is the most easily spoofable by mafia though, all they have to do is risk one more mafia to assure us that their mayor is the mason}, since bodyguards basically have to be protected anyway )
a Vigilante (he can call his hit right before the night ends, if its true then it was proven)
and Detective (he can role check someone the first night and have us hang him to confirm the next day)
I'm not sure if having the mayor verify is the best course of action but the one thing we cannot afford is to give the mafia control of what information we receive
Finally if we decide to go for the volunteer bodyguards then I volunteer to soak up a hit for our buddy the mayor.
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On January 24 2011 09:11 BrownBear wrote:
Mod Question: Can the mayor be DT checked/medic protected/mason recruited?
Yes, but it is pointless to DT check a mayor
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On January 24 2011 09:11 BrownBear wrote:
Mod Question: Can the mayor be DT checked/medic protected/mason recruited?
Of course. DT check is a moot point tho - a mafia mayor will almost certainly be GF.
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I forgot I signed up for this lol
Do you still want me to add stuff to my profile LSB/Node?
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Also I'll run for mayor.
Reasons you should vote for me:
1. I am a big mafia target and bodyguard protection will help me survive into the later stages of the game.
2. I do fairly well at organizing town discussion and making sure we don't get sidetracked.
3. I'm not the best scumhunter, but I'm getting better. I am pretty good at determining who is trustworthy so I think I'll make good decisions as far as bodyguards.
4. I'm great at clue analysis.
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Do I vote here? I don't see a thread so I will assume yes. I will vote for Kavdragon I suppose.
##Vote: Kavdragon
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I think votes start after the Day 1 post.
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EPT
