EPT[G] Speedray PvZ - Page 3
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Overall I think Stargate play is probably still very much alive in PvZ. | ||
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
you gotta run away from mutas not fly through them | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
It definitely would be a smoother transition as you can just toss down a fleet beacon after your 2 stargates, but the problem is the carriers massive build time which is almost 2x as much as colossi. Even still, since you can toss down your fleet beacon right after your stargates that's 70 seconds faster than going robo fac + robo bay, so your first set of carriers (probably 3, since you'd want to toss down a 3rd stargate while your fleet beacon was building). So you'd have a carrier + whatever left over void ray/phoenix you have + zealots as a mineral sink. It could work. | ||
rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On December 08 2010 15:42 Skyro wrote: I wonder though if a carrier transition instead of colossi would work. Carriers are cost effective vs everything (even corruptors), especially if you are up on attack upgrades over his armor upgrades (not hard considering you have chrono boost). It definitely would be a smoother transition as you can just toss down a fleet beacon after your 2 stargates, but the problem is the carriers massive build time which is almost 2x as much as colossi. Even still, since you can toss down your fleet beacon right after your stargates that's 70 seconds faster than going robo fac + robo bay, so your first set of carriers (probably 3, since you'd want to toss down a 3rd stargate while your fleet beacon was building). So you'd have a carrier + whatever left over void ray/phoenix you have + zealots as a mineral sink. It could work. No, it does not work. The reason you need colossus is to counter hydras. Carriers are not very good against hydras. | ||
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
On December 08 2010 15:58 Anihc wrote: No, it does not work. The reason you need colossus is to counter hydras. Carriers are not very good against hydras. Indeed. Carriers alone are a pretty poor choice vs Hydralisks. Now, Carrier Chargelot? That's a different story Hydralisks will preferentially target interceptors, and zealots do SO much damage if they can get up close. Also a potential composition to switch to if you want to mix it up after getting your 4th or 5th base. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 08 2010 15:58 Anihc wrote: No, it does not work. The reason you need colossus is to counter hydras. Carriers are not very good against hydras. I tried it once a long time ago and it failed miserably due to them just making a ton of corruptors but the reason why I might give it another chance is if you already have a large void ray army then it would be pretty tough for the zerg player to suddenly catch back up on corruptors. And carriers actually do surprisingly well vs hydras. Even in a scenario where the hydra force is able to move directly under a carrier fleet and focus fire it down, they still roughly break even on equal resources. Now imagine if you have a zealot wall and micro your carriers well. It's really no contest. In my mind the question is still if you can survive until carriers come out (I believe your first set of carriers will come out around the same time as your first set of colossi if you went robo after double stargate), and how it would fare vs a zerg who switched to producing nothing but corruptors. I think you should be able to do well even vs mass corruptors since you will be able to stay ahead on upgrades but it's hard to gauge how fast a zerg will be able to produce corruptors vs say 3 stargates. I will try it and report back. I think it would work best vs someone who tech'ed straight to hydras since they won't have the spire to quickly respond to carriers nor will you have to make many phoenixes to deal with mutas. | ||
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Gentlebite
United States132 Posts
Best advice is just mass corruptors =[ | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
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MegaPerle
France53 Posts
On December 09 2010 00:18 craz3d wrote: What is Blizzard's reasoning for removing Flux vanes? Maybe removing slowly the threat of mass noobrays in lower 3v3 4v4 leagues. | ||
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SethDrone
United States51 Posts
Mass chargelots with a few dt or ht thrown in? I'm not sure how it would work but it would negate the mass corruptor response and depending on your templar timing it would free up gas. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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vaLentine88
United States61 Posts
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Altsa
Finland990 Posts
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Balor
United States147 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On December 08 2010 12:02 sixghost wrote: After playing against this build a few times, it seems alot like sair/reaver in BW. If you scout the build there's a window where you can punish them with with a hydra doom drop, you just have to catch the phoenix/void out of position. Other than that, I really struggle to find an opening in this build. Hey man, just like to say thanks for exposing the drop weakness my build used to have. Every game I lose teaches me how to improve my strategy and write a better guide! | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 09 2010 01:59 Anihc wrote: I'll see if I can post a few reps when I get home of gateway support, although my version of this build deviates a bit from the guide. I only get 1 stargate to begin with, then I stop making voids completely in the mid-game and just do standard gateway/robo unit comp. However, my goal isn't to win with that - I use the gateway/robo to secure myself additional expos with mass cannons so I'll have income late game to add in voids again. Also I don't purely mass voids either - I incorporate other high tech units with the voids, including HT, archon, immortal, and colossus - which is really the same idea as this guide - more high supply efficiency units to create a "death ball." I do it a little bit differently. I find air superiority so important in the matchup since it leads to map control so that is my main priority early on. Once that is secured your colossi will rip through everything else other than hive-tech (broods/ultras), which is then in turn destroyed by voids. This is why the colossi/void combo is so potent, it destroys virtually any zerg army composition possible. My gateway units for me consists of almost entirely zealots. The gateway and zealots themselves for me is simply a mineral sink to tank damage for my expensive voids and colossi. I have no gas to go for anything else other than perhaps a sentry or 2 for guardian shield. There are of course times when the battle for air superiority causes a mass corruptor reaction from zerg (this is actually a fairly rare response from my experiences). This is the only case where I don't make colossi and just mass a gateway army of zealot + stalker + sentry with my mass phoenix and push out. They will have invested so much resources in corruptors you should be able to win the ground battle quite handidly and with guardian shield phoenixes actually come out roughly even with corruptors (make sure you get +1 air weapons as well). edit: Oh and I'm assuming the people asking for replays are looking for the gateway timings. Basically I make the gateways when I start to stockpile extra minerals, which is right around the time your 2 bases starts to become fully saturated. So this is AFTER you toss down your 2 stargates and robo. | ||
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SethDrone
United States51 Posts
My main issue is the midgame, I feel very weak during a point where they have mutas + hydras while I have a few phoniex / voids and either 1 coll or 1 building. Basically they give up the fight for air control and while you get in some harass they pump units for a counter attack to overrun you. What are y'all doing to hold during the mid game? | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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