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usethis2
2164 Posts
1. Mass roaches (you will have 2~3 VRs at most when he knock on your doorstep with 20 Roaches + reinforcement) 2. Fast hydras (close distance or drops) 3. Out-macro like crazy (like Ret showed in his RO64 game), lots of everything including corruptors | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On December 22 2010 22:45 yrag89 wrote: Can you rate my play? Didn't have a specific buildorder as this just came into my mind "hey let's try that speedrays build posted in TL for the lulz." ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-175700.jpg) Pretty well played overall, though I have to question the quality of your opponent. 2 spine crawlers early on? I think you should go 1 void ray + 1 phoenix as your first units instead of 2 phoenixes, so that you can put even more pressure on his third base. Later on, I think that against a roach/hydra opening, you should be aiming for 3 stargates and 1 robo on 3 bases, instead of 2/2. I've never felt the need for more than 6 colossi, and you can get overpowered by corruptors if you only have 2 stargates. You also could've upgraded air weapons more. To give you a benchmark, my 200/200 supply, +3 air weapons, 6 colossus 30 void ray push usually comes at around 21 minutes. Because you maxed out with stalkers instead of void rays, your supply dropped to 140 at the large battle, which I feel is dangerously low when your units are so expensive. I've never went below 170 after hitting 200. Other than that, looked great! | ||
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Fangxxer
Sweden70 Posts
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MegaPerle
France53 Posts
On December 23 2010 10:47 iamke55 wrote: Pretty well played overall, though I have to question the quality of your opponent. 2 spine crawlers early on? I think you should go 1 void ray + 1 phoenix as your first units instead of 2 phoenixes, so that you can put even more pressure on his third base. Later on, I think that against a roach/hydra opening, you should be aiming for 3 stargates and 1 robo on 3 bases, instead of 2/2. I've never felt the need for more than 6 colossi, and you can get overpowered by corruptors if you only have 2 stargates. You also could've upgraded air weapons more. To give you a benchmark, my 200/200 supply, +3 air weapons, 6 colossus 30 void ray push usually comes at around 21 minutes. Because you maxed out with stalkers instead of void rays, your supply dropped to 140 at the large battle, which I feel is dangerously low when your units are so expensive. I've never went below 170 after hitting 200. Other than that, looked great! Looking at your reply, I think i'm actualy loosing to mass corruptor trying this build for the only reason I make to much colossi... | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
On December 23 2010 07:08 usethis2 wrote: It is a strong strategy for sure, but competent zergs will beat it handily with: 1. Mass roaches (you will have 2~3 VRs at most when he knock on your doorstep with 20 Roaches + reinforcement) 2. Fast hydras (close distance or drops) 3. Out-macro like crazy (like Ret showed in his RO64 game), lots of everything including corruptors another terrible bullshit incompetent ignorant post of someone who doesn`t know what the fuck he is talking about User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On December 24 2010 07:17 UFO wrote: another terrible bullshit incompetent ignorant post of someone who doesn`t know what the fuck he is talking about And who are you? [url blocked] That's one example of it. I have more. Another counter if you're good at micro and can keep them alive, infestors are awesome as well. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On December 24 2010 07:17 UFO wrote: another terrible bullshit incompetent ignorant post of someone who doesn`t know what the fuck he is talking about You're actually looking like the fucking ignorant bullshitter here. Keep such language out of the forums, if you cannot argue your point without resorting to such immature behavior, don't even try participating in a discussion. Take a look at the replay and try to argue against that, just insulting people that try to point out potential flaws is the best way to 1. get warned and 2. deteriorate the quality of this thread. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On December 24 2010 08:07 usethis2 wrote: And who are you? [url blocked] That's one example of it. I have more. Another counter if you're good at micro and can keep them alive, infestors are awesome as well. Consider reading the post before blindly claiming to beat this easily and submitting a replay. What exactly is the difference between you and all of the other people claiming a competent player will easily win vs any build? | ||
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Vaporak
70 Posts
On December 24 2010 08:07 usethis2 wrote: And who are you? [url blocked] That's one example of it. I have more. Another counter if you're good at micro and can keep them alive, infestors are awesome as well. Why do people keep posting replays of people losing while not doing this threads strategy as a reason why this threads strategy won't work? The Protoss in that replay made 1 cannon and you were able to just walk up and kill him. Ya, we knew that could happen already. You obviously can't be THAT greedy or you die to roach busts. | ||
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
On December 24 2010 08:07 usethis2 wrote: And who are you? [url blocked] That's one example of it. I have more. Another counter if you're good at micro and can keep them alive, infestors are awesome as well. Dude. What are you going to use to kill void rays once you've fungaled them? Hydralisks which will die to colossi, or corrupters, which voidrays kill easily, or the short-ranged mutalisks, which the protoss player will inevitably have phoenix to deal with also? Oh, and please.. tell me how you're going to break MASS cannons with roaches and hydras. I'm not talking one wimpy cannon. I mean like... ten cannons+. About the same amount of money put into cannons as you did army. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
[url blocked] Imagine there were no rocks, that game could have been much shorter. BTW these are 2.5K+ Koreans. I've posted replays because well, duh, I've learned the first thing people say when someone says something is "replays!" here. Just like someone (furtively) demanding replays with 10 cannons. I did say the Stargate strategy is strong. It's indeed what everyone including myself does/tries to do these days. It is not fool-proof, obviously, and that's all I wanted to say. (nothing is) | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
I used your strategy, had a really fun game (no sitting in base, plenty of action), got out a mothership, AND got BM from the zerg :D In this game, zerg wen't early roaches, then, transitioned to hydra roach, then transitioned to mass corruptor http://www.mediafire.com/?hd49ygcekrik47y Opponent was 2600+ diamond | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
edit: a few pointers as I watch the replay. Make sure you send a probe to check for a third base. This is the method for you to determine whether a baneling bust or mass speedling or roach all in is coming. Also you should patrol a probe in the dark spot of your main in case of a nydus. I might've forgotten to mention it in the guide, but you need to get 1 phoenix early on to scout which anti-air tech they're going and then keep it alive for the rest of the game to continue scouting. I loved the spire snipe! Preventing 3-3 air upgrades is another key to making this work, maybe I'll add that in to the guide. The complaints at the end were very typical. I get balance complaints almost every time I win with this. I've started experimenting with variations of kiwikaki's build to open up with a standard 3 gate sentry expo and then transition into void rays. With Shakuras Plateau removed from the ladder map pool and flux vanes being removed in the next patch, this will probably become superior to the build in the OP. I had good results for the most part, especially once I started harassing with phoenixes to darken the Zerg's map vision. Here's a replay vs a very good player: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-177692.jpg) | ||
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SethDrone
United States51 Posts
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LikkleDwagon
Belgium1 Post
 Queens kind of deal with both the colossi and the void rays if transfuse micro is ok, their ground to air damage is amazing and since you are going corruptors which are a heavy gas unit, the queens can be a mineral sink + creep can be everywhere. Havn't had the chance to try it out though so if anyone feels up to it. ^^ | ||
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