[G] Speedray PvZ - Page 5

On December 20 2010 18:34 ChickenLips wrote:
OK, i can save all you guys even contemplating this strategy.

1) Z can easily scout it and adapt his BO to his liking since you do not prevent Stargate scouting by Air.
2) P CANNOT Never scout a Zs gameplan until his First PhoeNix is out (8:25).
3) Z goes for Hydra/ling bust and hits at around 8:30-9:00 with 10 hydras, Speed overlords and 20 lings. At this Point Protoss has 3 cannons and 2 Air units out (1 PhoeNix, 1 voidray)

instant loss every single time.

I have regularly beaten a practice partner with Hydra busts when he went for 2 stargate openings and even crushed someone who did it to me on ladder. It's not viable, period.

To be safe against this kind of 2 base you have to put around 5-8 cannons at your front BLINDLY. Then Z comes 1 min later with OLs and drops all his shit Into your main while you still have nothing more than a few stargate units and 8 cannons in your Natural.

On December 20 2010 18:34 ChickenLips wrote:
Ok, i can save all you guys even contemplating this strategy.

1) Z can easily scout it and adapt his BO to his liking since you do not prevent Stargate scouting by air.
2) P CANNOT NEVER scout a Zs gameplan until his first phoenix is out (8:25).
3) Z goes for hydra/ling bust and hits at around 8:30-9:00 with 10 hydras, speed overlords and 20 lings. At this point Protoss has 3 cannons and 2 air units out (1 phoenix, 1 voidray)

instant loss every single time.

I have regularly beaten a practice partner with hydra busts when he went for 2 stargate openings and even crushed someone who did it to me on ladder. It's not viable, period.

To be safe against this kind of 2 base you have to put around 5-8 cannons at your front BLINDLY. Then Z comes 1 min later with OLs and drops all his shit into your main while you still have nothing more than a few stargate units and 8 cannons in your natural.

On December 21 2010 01:59 Skyro wrote:


1) I don't understand what you're saying here. I can't make a stalker or sentry to prevent scouting, or hide my stargates or something?
2) My first stargate is done @ ~7mins, resulting in my first phoenix out a full minute earlier. I highly question your practice partners build order or macro.
3) No way you'll have 10 hydras at my doorstep at that time. Hydras are slow as molasses off creep. It'll take a while for hydras to truck it over to my base and if I scouted it I will have my defenses up. And no, I don't have to make 8 cannons "BLINDLY." Plus if you go double stargate into double robo you will have crazy excess minerals to dump regardless.

Also you need to stop theorycrafting. The protoss player will already have his deathball pushing out before you have the time to go lair -> OL speed -> OL drop.

And if you know your opponent is going FE into double stargate yes, fast hydra push is the best way to bust it w/o relying on luck like nydus. That's obvious. But don't act like there is no risk for the zerg player to cut econ and go fast hydras and push out when they could've easily gone 6 WG's. If they did it's instant loss for the zerg player since you won't be able to retreat with your slow off-creep hydras.

Now I don't actually follow the OP's unit composition as I don't make many initial voids and tech to colossus faster, as well as dump minerals into zealots. But the fact of the matter is FE is solid vs zerg on certain maps and it is wide open on what the protoss player transitions into. Double stargate opener is just one of those transitions, and it is very robust.

On December 21 2010 06:15 ChickenLips wrote:


I was referring specifically to the OPs strategy and his replays. The way you play a 2 gate build off 2 base I cannot comment as I have no replays to look at.

There's no econ cutting. You go 2 fully saturated bases of hydras and just kill their shit because they have no way to stop the incoming stream of hydras at 9:00. Upload some of your replays and then I will comment on them as your post makes you seem like the theorycrafter.

On December 21 2010 06:26 Skyro wrote:


No theorycraft, FE into double stargate into double robo is my standard build on LT, Scrap, Jungle, and Shakuras. I'm at work ATM but I don't know if I have a saved replay where they tech'ed straight to hydras since it is not a very popular ATM. I probably have a recent one vs roach or muta though since those are the most common responses to protoss FE. But I can assure your first stargate is done ~7mins if you FE correctly (double pylon).

Also FYI you can't "stream" hydras to my base. Phoenixes pick off hydras super fast if at anytime the phoenixes outnumber your hydras. You run this risk unless you keep your hydras protected in your base, which further delays the push.

On December 21 2010 07:01 tehemperorer wrote:
In my PvZ, I usually have 3 phoenixes out at 7:15...

EDIT: My bad, 3 phoenixes and a VR being cb'ed at 7:30, plus a few zealots, stalker, sentry.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/116316-1v1-protoss-zerg-jungle-basin

On December 21 2010 06:58 ChickenLips wrote:


I don't need a specific Z response, any replay will you do as you are essentially blind until your first phoenix reaches his base and your BO should essentially be the same provided the Z is 2 base.

If Phoenixes outnumber the Zs Hydras he is indeed doing something wrong. Looking forward to your replay though.

On December 16 2010 16:51 JeanLuc wrote:
I watched one game and I kept thinking "corrupters"

On December 20 2010 18:27 Vaporak wrote:
After seeing GuineaPig's games in the GSL and reading this thread I decided to give this strategy a go in my PvZ. So far I'm 4:3 W:L with it, but every time I've made it to the mid game I've won in a commanding fashion at ~2K diamond level. This strategy really lets you go toe to toe with a zerg in a pure macro game, I've just got to work on the early defense now really.