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On April 15 2010 18:19 Butigroove wrote:
Broods take two of the longest upgrades in the game to get (that are both VISIBLE TO SCOUTING), cost 250/250 and you complain about not having counters... t.t
I don't think Hive tech is broodlord specific so that only leaves the greater spire. Although it takes time to upgrade, zerg can start producing multiple simultaneously right away.
And funny enough, the best race to deal with broodlord is just another zerg. Can't do shit to roach/hydra with some hydra micro.
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On March 10 2010 11:32 Elaeli wrote:
So one thing you notice when playing against a Z is - you DIE if he gets Broodlords and you aren't massively ahead and/or fully prepared with a fleet of for example Vikings or Ravens.
Isn't that just the same as any other lategame air combo though?
I mean, if a terran or protoss gets a fleet of BC's/Carriers and you aren't massively ahead or fully prepared for it, you die?
Yes, the broodlings are annoying, but I just don't think it's as 'OP' as you say.
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Blords make units for free. Like a constant infested marine being casted. You can compare them to carriers who pay nothing for interceptors and produce them instantly. Oh and their interceptors are ground, effectively keeping most ranged units away.
Sounds op
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this kinda turns back to the "ultimate" unit combo of hydra lords, consider build time and cost and find a weakness? you dont seriously play to ram your army into his and see what happens? thats copper attitude.
there is a big damn risk to go for a decent amount of broodlords, due to the sick cost.. doing a decent timing push can put him out of hydras.. and then he dont get that far withotu using time making hydras. when no hydras you snipe the broodlords.. hydras are back but no broodlords.. ops
if you push him hard enough or simply make him to worried about a close at hand push, he wont go for broodlords, because the minute he does his defence will go without enough reinforcement and it crumbles before the oh so powerful units arrive
without pushing and scouting you are useless, fine you can turtle.. but then you should expect a broodlord coming up your tailpipe so you prepare for it. Someone said if the broodlords had perfect micro you cant use the seeker missile, but what if the terran has enough vikings and good enough micro to snipe the broodlords while dodging the muta/corruptors? 
they are strong, but expensive.. counter it
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Lower their health, simple as that. We don't need flying, 3x chrono boosted, production buildings with unlimited HP. That's ridiculous.
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On March 10 2010 11:33 agorist wrote:
If you're letting zerg get lots of broodlords you're probably doing something wrong.
this
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I love how people seem convinced that a ground army is supposed to be able to counter them. Do you think they're extremely vulnerable to air and can't run away because of a random decision?
Void rays, phoenixes, carriers, motherships, stalkers with blink, vikings, battlecruisers, ravens
I'm pretty sure it's not too hard to find options before about 10 minutes, which is about how long it takes to get them... and this is assuming the opponent isn't pressuring. Oh, you built an entire army of units that suck against them and let the zerg acquire brood lords? Strategy. The end.
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This thread should be closed regarding the new Forum Rules. Even though it was created before.
Broodlords are terrible expensive, require high tech, are slow and can't attack air.
If people can't take advantage of any of these facts they're simply noobs.
I want evidence in form of Platinum League Replays.
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It's like a lategame mech army vs zerg, or mass carrier/dragoon/HT vs terran. If you let him get it, you're dead. This is an asynchronous game, certain races will be at an advantage at certain points in the game. It's up to the player to minimize the advantage windows of the opponent and maximize their own advantage windows.
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The only real problem with brood lords is that they overlap too much with Ultralisks and make them obsolete: e.g. both are late game expensive ground attackers that can tank well. But the Ultralisk is vulnerable to tanks and immortals, which makes it less worthwile to use them against big ground armies.
So either the brood lord or the ultralisk need a change in their role a bit or one of the two has to go. It was the same reason the Lurker had to go.
P and T just got spoiled sao far that they don't need to go late game to win, because their mid game armies are so strong.
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On April 15 2010 18:24 MeruFM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 18:19 Butigroove wrote:
Broods take two of the longest upgrades in the game to get (that are both VISIBLE TO SCOUTING), cost 250/250 and you complain about not having counters... t.t
I don't think Hive tech is broodlord specific so that only leaves the greater spire. Although it takes time to upgrade, zerg can start producing multiple simultaneously right away. And funny enough, the best race to deal with broodlord is just another zerg. Can't do shit to roach/hydra with some hydra micro.
I haven't built a hive yet in a high level competitive game that wasnt for broodlords.
Hell, I've build maybe 3 spires for mutas in over 200 1:1 games after the reset, they just arent very good.
On April 15 2010 19:27 imbecile wrote:
The only real problem with brood lords is that they overlap too much with Ultralisks and make them obsolete: e.g. both are late game expensive ground attackers that can tank well. But the Ultralisk is vulnerable to tanks and immortals, which makes it less worthwile to use them against big ground armies.
So either the brood lord or the ultralisk need a change in their role a bit or one of the two has to go. It was the same reason the Lurker had to go.
P and T just got spoiled sao far that they don't need to go late game to win, because their mid game armies are so strong.
No, the problem wiht ultralisks is that they are bad. Roach, Hydra, Ling, Baneling, even Queen are better unit options lol.
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I'm a terran player, so I'll invite any nerf to the broodlord if it makes my live easier Whether they're gamechangeing and imba I can't say, but I would like to just point out that carriers, the interceptor summoning bastards, had to have destroyable interceptors cost 25 minerals each for a reason. Broodlords aren't as versatile of carriers, but they still get free mini attackers which rape...hard.
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United Kingdom12021 Posts
On April 15 2010 19:28 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 18:24 MeruFM wrote:On April 15 2010 18:19 Butigroove wrote:
Broods take two of the longest upgrades in the game to get (that are both VISIBLE TO SCOUTING), cost 250/250 and you complain about not having counters... t.t
I don't think Hive tech is broodlord specific so that only leaves the greater spire. Although it takes time to upgrade, zerg can start producing multiple simultaneously right away. And funny enough, the best race to deal with broodlord is just another zerg. Can't do shit to roach/hydra with some hydra micro. I haven't built a hive yet in a high level competitive game that wasnt for broodlords. Hell, I've build maybe 3 spires for mutas in over 200 1:1 games after the reset, they just arent very good. Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 19:27 imbecile wrote:
The only real problem with brood lords is that they overlap too much with Ultralisks and make them obsolete: e.g. both are late game expensive ground attackers that can tank well. But the Ultralisk is vulnerable to tanks and immortals, which makes it less worthwile to use them against big ground armies.
So either the brood lord or the ultralisk need a change in their role a bit or one of the two has to go. It was the same reason the Lurker had to go.
P and T just got spoiled sao far that they don't need to go late game to win, because their mid game armies are so strong. No, the problem wiht ultralisks is that they are bad. Roach, Hydra, Ling, Baneling, even Queen are better unit options lol.
Wait, did you just say Mutalisks are not very good? Seriously if you manage to get a group of about 15 of them, they can literally one shot a thor in a single sweep, the thor fires so slow that sometimes it'll walk around for a while trying to work out what to do, or it'll fire once and that's it.
Mutalisks are really good, you just need to use them more to see it.
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I love the broodlord attack, the fact that it shoots little creatures it's so funny 
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On March 10 2010 11:33 agorist wrote:
If you're letting zerg get lots of broodlords you're probably doing something wrong.
This.
Even if he gets too them the time and resources he's spending on them WILL offer you a midgame advantage were you can grab another expo or two. Being up an expo on zerg will win you the game.
People losing to broodlords are either:
-bad at scouting;
-not realizing the advantage they have and grabbing expansions/getting bcs/vik themselves.
Seriously what's the zerg gonna do against a midgame P or T army with a pittyfull tier 1 army or a low gas mixture of ling/muta?
I'm a platinum random player on Europe.
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I love my vikings. They are so microeable and have such range, that broodlords + corrupters should never become a problem for terran. When it comes to balance however - Broodlords are too strong and corrupters are horribly bad, as it is at the moment. If they nerf broodlord - and they have my permission - they shoud definately buff corrupters.
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broodlords are far from imbalanced.... i have never seen top players in tournaments use them. Even in a 60 min zvp between dimaga and hasuobs, dimaga never used many blords cus they are just not cost efficient if ur opponent knows how to counter them. Also corruptors are a terrible unit, so I dont know who ever got the idea you got some corruptors from mid-game, nobody builds corruptors. Broodlords are only good if your opponent is being dumb and leaves himself wide open to them without having anything to counter, which is nothing but his own fault since broodlords are so damn easy to see coming from a mile away.
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Today I countered broodlords beautifully with pure marines + medevac, with a group of hellions. Hellions toast the broodlings and my rines focus fire the Broodlords.
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There's definitely arguments for and against broodlords being a bit of a superpower. I think it's a lot easier to counter them with zerg or terran than protoss for a start.
Other than that I think the HP is definitely too high. As I had one phoenix attacking about 5 and it took about 6 days, compared to how one wraith could kill that many guardians in a reasonable amount of time. With correct micro over a cliff I'd say they're much more effective than carriers.
This opinion may stem from my all consuming hatred of phoenix's though...
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EPT
