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On June 30 2009 19:16 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger.. I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense It's really map dependent
desti is so narrow that flash can make a tank line across the whole map
watch his game on medusa vs bisu. SIIIIICK push
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On June 30 2009 19:22 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:20 darktreb wrote:On June 30 2009 19:16 Vasoline73 wrote:On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger.. I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense You're right that Flash's TvP does not exactly inspire confidence (say the way Fantasy's does) against Bisu at the moment, but that game why take any risk of losing? If anything, the Holy World game against Shuttle was yet another example of Flash playing a push strat and overextending himself - it would be nice to see him push and win more consistently. That's the only thing though. Disagreed. Seemed to me like Flash only lost against Shuttle on Holy World because Shuttle double expo'd and Flash didn't scout it in time.
That was a big reason though I wouldn't call it the only reason. The double expo kicking in certainly helped Shuttle break the push, but in my opinion the push was still holdable. I don't think Flash planned for the game to last to be honest - he had over 1000 gas at points in that game with no minerals, while rolling 8 Factories but only one Machine shop. Seems like he wanted to run Vulture heavy for the mobility and an early win, but when that didn't happen he ended up with an imbalanced Tank count. Point is, if you're focusing on winning with your push, you have to, you know, actually win with your push.
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On June 30 2009 19:22 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:20 Samurai- wrote:On June 30 2009 19:16 Vasoline73 wrote:On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger.. I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense Non taken! Yeah, flash can really roll when he wants, but maybe he was trying few tricks on this "lesser" opponents who knows anyway, flash won! Yeah cheers! lol I think I'm just frustrated because I want Flash to win a league already and I'm passively aggressively letting out my anger. Lol. Sorry guys! Anyways KT fighting!
Don't blame you - fairly or unfairly, there seems to be a "do or die" feeling around Flash for this OSL and MSL. Whereas one year ago it seemed a given that he'd go down as one of the winningest progamers ever, now it's starting to feel like he might not actually get there, especially with SC2 on the horizon. As a Flash fan, I actually found myself relatively uninterested in this game (and the BackHo game). The only games that feel like they matter right now are the two gigantic games coming up against JD and Effort, especially after the Yarnc debacle.
I feel like those two games are as close to being "career-defining" as two round of 16 games can be for someone who has already won a Starleague and has already assured himself a place in SC history as one of the best to ever play the game. He needs to win these games.
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51151 Posts
samsung throwing games left and right
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What is with flash and his extremely late engineering bay? is he trying some new changes, so he can get faster scan?
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Impressive muta micro from 815, better than his usual.
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On June 30 2009 19:33 johanes wrote: What is with flash and his extremely late engineering bay? is he trying some new changes, so he can get faster scan?
I guess he feels like he can handle Reavers with his fast Armory and Goliaths (along with his top-notch defense) and wants the scan to minimize the possibility DT surprise (and killing your Turrets), which is the close thing to an autoloss in TvP (or any matchup in the game, actually).
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On June 30 2009 19:36 SuperArc wrote: 815 is a good ZvZ player
Mediocre, really, but better than Odin for sure. =)
He's got a good record but his actual play isn't death defying in the way of Jaedong, or luxury and zero when they're not slumping. He's adequately competent when he feels like it.
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United States2186 Posts
Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
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On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote:
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
are you serious? imagine how he would feel personally if he kept losing. it'll affect his mental state more than the overtime schedule of practice that he has (if that's what he has now)
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On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote: Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
I respect your opinions ver.. and i agree with everything u said.. except for what u say about his mid game micro isn't as good as his end game micro..
how is that possible? o_O
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On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote: Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs). dont players want to win osl more than gom?
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Dude this Khan guy is HUGE compared to most progamers. He looks BUFF. LOOK OUT LUX
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On June 30 2009 19:43 29 fps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote:
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs). are you serious? imagine how he would feel personally if he kept losing. it'll affect his mental state more than the overtime schedule of practice that he has (if that's what he has now)
Honestly, falling out of Proleague would be really good for him. OSL is tougher to swallow but the level of competition there is insane.
Flash should make GOM finals (can't see him losing BO3 to Shuttle especially after their last encounter, and can't see him losing BO5 to Skyhigh or July, likely Skyhigh). Not sure how the MSL brackets will work (didn't they add the Kespa seeding rule so the current bracket only applies for round of 16?), but he might have an easy route there too.
Realistically, you can't expect anyone to win two leagues simultaneously anymore. Even the great Jaedong has repeatedly dropped out of one league early (or not even qualified!) over the past year and a half, and look who has made 4 finals (6 if you count WCG and GOM) compared to Flash's 2 (4 if you count GOM and GSI)?
All early dropouts are forgotten if you make (and especially if you win) finals. Jaedong has dropped out of leagues with a big thud (MSL ro32 last time? BackHo OSL? Tempest in GOM??) but no one seems to remember that now.
Even the final bonjwa, arguably the greatest player ever Savior didn't even make an OSL until the same time as his FIFTH MSL final.
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Did game 2 end yet o.O Results?
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lmao Lux's split there
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ommmmmmmmmfg LUX. lol. So sloppy sometimes haha. Letting all his mutas (granted only like 6 left) just chill in the center of the map.
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