Pre-match hype interview with Violet-fancafe foundress NeverGG + Show Spoiler +
Hi NeverGG! With you recently opening the Violet fancafé you must be rooting for Violet tonight!
Of course - I've been supporting him and following his progress for over a year now.
How do you think his chances are versus Great, Kahn's current top Zerg player?
Well in terms of experience I think he's got the edge. Khan's line up looks flat in general lately given the overperformance of teams like SKT1 and Hwaseung and despite Great's consistent form I'd like to think Violet's recent show of determination and focused play will help.
How do you feel KT's overall chances are tonight?
I don't think it's a clear cut victory like it might be against some of the other teams, but as long as they play with consistency and don't let the idea of FBH's ceremonies or Stork's osl win get in the way then they can do it.
Well, thank you for the interview! Any last words of support for Violet?
Violet fighting! I hope next time we meet at PL you'll give us a message for the Fan Cafe
Yes, they're a game and a half behind Khan currently, so if they win this one they're pretty much caught up. If Khan loses one more and KT wins one more (assuming KT wins this), then KT will be in sixth. It's a close race.
There's more games to play after this, though. If KT loses this they're pretty much gone without a second thought. If KT goes on a mini winning streak starting here then they'll probably make it, depending on how well khan plays in the future.
according to the names, matchups and the recent performances, 815 is the only one who could drop a game here. and the only reason for saying this is, that it's a zvz. i know that zvz is 815s best matchup but zvz is so unforgiving that this doesn't matter that much as long as you're not jaedong.
On June 30 2009 18:36 Raithed wrote: what is khan doing.. no stork, jangbi etc... are they trying to snipe? doubtful.
Only a couple legitimate answers. It's either coaches being pissed that the Khan big 3 are underperforming massively lately, or Khan thinks they can still get their sixth even if they lose this game, and are trying to get some of their less played gamers against top tier competition that they will have to face if the finals are bo7, etc.
On June 30 2009 18:32 zOula... wrote: does KT still have a chance to make the playoffs? anyone know? GO KT!!
I think KTF can barely make it - I think there' one more week of round 5 PL after this, KTF are 27-25 and Khan are 28-23, so basically if Khan lose the rest of their games and KTF win all theirs, KTF should make it I think, someone correct me if Im wrong.
KT is too close to be risking the 6th playoff spot with these suboptimal lineups, especially after the too easy 0-3 loss to STX. My only explanation is that the top 3 are either slumping or are in some kind of inhouse trouble.
This game is as one-sided as we expected. It took yoon over 10 arb tries + hallucination to get off 1 recall and it was immediately destroyed with no damage.
Probe rush lol. Wow Flash's late game v P... -_-. Always turns into an elimination race. May work against bad players, but you're gonna keep getting crushed by Bisu Flash
On June 30 2009 19:08 Vasoline73 wrote: Flash going to lose... my god so bad. Seriously. Even if he pulls a win, this is really borderline bad from Flash.
Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
Perhaps we were watching different games Vasoline. Flash was never behind and had no reason to risk anything by moving out early against Arb/Hallucination/DA. Playing it through systematically and roll him over was the right call.
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
Oh come on - have you guys never played TvP? That game was never close - Yoon killed a Starport, an Armory (after 3/3 ended) two CCs, and a couple Depots/Turrets/Factories with like literally 15 Recall attempts? And Flash still had 4 bases mining basically at all times.
Yoon's strat wasn't as ridiculous as it looked. Flash played overly conservatively (as usual per his better-safe-than-sorry style) but one overaggressive push by the Terran and you can be completely out of position to deal with subsequent recalls and lose half your main or all of your expos or something like that. It wasn't a bad gameplan by P at all.
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
Non taken!
Yeah, flash can really roll when he wants, but maybe he was trying few tricks on this "lesser" opponents who knows
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
You're right that Flash's TvP does not exactly inspire confidence (say the way Fantasy's does) against Bisu at the moment, but that game why take any risk of losing?
If anything, the Holy World game against Shuttle was yet another example of Flash playing a push strat and overextending himself - it would be nice to see him push and win more consistently. That's the only thing though.
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
Non taken!
Yeah, flash can really roll when he wants, but maybe he was trying few tricks on this "lesser" opponents who knows
anyway, flash won!
Yeah cheers! lol I think I'm just frustrated because I want Flash to win a league already and I'm passively aggressively letting out my anger. Lol. Sorry guys!
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
You're right that Flash's TvP does not exactly inspire confidence (say the way Fantasy's does) against Bisu at the moment, but that game why take any risk of losing?
If anything, the Holy World game against Shuttle was yet another example of Flash playing a push strat and overextending himself - it would be nice to see him push and win more consistently. That's the only thing though.
Disagreed.
Seemed to me like Flash only lost against Shuttle on Holy World because Shuttle double expo'd and Flash didn't scout it in time.
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
It's really map dependent
desti is so narrow that flash can make a tank line across the whole map
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
You're right that Flash's TvP does not exactly inspire confidence (say the way Fantasy's does) against Bisu at the moment, but that game why take any risk of losing?
If anything, the Holy World game against Shuttle was yet another example of Flash playing a push strat and overextending himself - it would be nice to see him push and win more consistently. That's the only thing though.
Disagreed.
Seemed to me like Flash only lost against Shuttle on Holy World because Shuttle double expo'd and Flash didn't scout it in time.
That was a big reason though I wouldn't call it the only reason. The double expo kicking in certainly helped Shuttle break the push, but in my opinion the push was still holdable. I don't think Flash planned for the game to last to be honest - he had over 1000 gas at points in that game with no minerals, while rolling 8 Factories but only one Machine shop. Seems like he wanted to run Vulture heavy for the mobility and an early win, but when that didn't happen he ended up with an imbalanced Tank count. Point is, if you're focusing on winning with your push, you have to, you know, actually win with your push.
On June 30 2009 19:12 Samurai- wrote: Vasoline, maybe you should let players play as they want, not as you want.. yesus, turn the screen off if all you can say is bull.. Flash was never in danger..
I'm just saying, Flash isn't going to win a game vs Stork Jangbi or Bisu trying to do this elimination race thing every game v P. He puts himself into a scary position and it's hurt him in games against Bisu and Stork, and even Shuttle on Holy World. I just want Flash to mix things up a bit is all guys, take no offense
Non taken!
Yeah, flash can really roll when he wants, but maybe he was trying few tricks on this "lesser" opponents who knows
anyway, flash won!
Yeah cheers! lol I think I'm just frustrated because I want Flash to win a league already and I'm passively aggressively letting out my anger. Lol. Sorry guys!
Anyways KT fighting!
Don't blame you - fairly or unfairly, there seems to be a "do or die" feeling around Flash for this OSL and MSL. Whereas one year ago it seemed a given that he'd go down as one of the winningest progamers ever, now it's starting to feel like he might not actually get there, especially with SC2 on the horizon. As a Flash fan, I actually found myself relatively uninterested in this game (and the BackHo game). The only games that feel like they matter right now are the two gigantic games coming up against JD and Effort, especially after the Yarnc debacle.
I feel like those two games are as close to being "career-defining" as two round of 16 games can be for someone who has already won a Starleague and has already assured himself a place in SC history as one of the best to ever play the game. He needs to win these games.
On June 30 2009 19:33 johanes wrote: What is with flash and his extremely late engineering bay? is he trying some new changes, so he can get faster scan?
I guess he feels like he can handle Reavers with his fast Armory and Goliaths (along with his top-notch defense) and wants the scan to minimize the possibility DT surprise (and killing your Turrets), which is the close thing to an autoloss in TvP (or any matchup in the game, actually).
On June 30 2009 19:36 SuperArc wrote: 815 is a good ZvZ player
Mediocre, really, but better than Odin for sure. =)
He's got a good record but his actual play isn't death defying in the way of Jaedong, or luxury and zero when they're not slumping. He's adequately competent when he feels like it.
Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
are you serious? imagine how he would feel personally if he kept losing. it'll affect his mental state more than the overtime schedule of practice that he has (if that's what he has now)
On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote: Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
I respect your opinions ver.. and i agree with everything u said.. except for what u say about his mid game micro isn't as good as his end game micro..
On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote: Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
are you serious? imagine how he would feel personally if he kept losing. it'll affect his mental state more than the overtime schedule of practice that he has (if that's what he has now)
Honestly, falling out of Proleague would be really good for him. OSL is tougher to swallow but the level of competition there is insane.
Flash should make GOM finals (can't see him losing BO3 to Shuttle especially after their last encounter, and can't see him losing BO5 to Skyhigh or July, likely Skyhigh). Not sure how the MSL brackets will work (didn't they add the Kespa seeding rule so the current bracket only applies for round of 16?), but he might have an easy route there too.
Realistically, you can't expect anyone to win two leagues simultaneously anymore. Even the great Jaedong has repeatedly dropped out of one league early (or not even qualified!) over the past year and a half, and look who has made 4 finals (6 if you count WCG and GOM) compared to Flash's 2 (4 if you count GOM and GSI)?
All early dropouts are forgotten if you make (and especially if you win) finals. Jaedong has dropped out of leagues with a big thud (MSL ro32 last time? BackHo OSL? Tempest in GOM??) but no one seems to remember that now.
Even the final bonjwa, arguably the greatest player ever Savior didn't even make an OSL until the same time as his FIFTH MSL final.
Btw after seeing how Flash play, I will now always use DAs vs people like him.
When I saw yoon's arbs [that kept dying], I wanted to MC a vessel, d-matrix the arbitor and use that to recall stuff lol. That's make a pimpest play =D
On June 30 2009 19:41 Ver wrote: Flash lost vs Shuttle because he can't micro. He killed the double expo within the upper limit given his 1 addon. He just isn't very good at doing that build because he slips up on his control too often (like vs Much on Andro). His late game battle micro is unrivaled but he is definitely weaker in the midgame timing push style.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
I respect your opinions ver.. and i agree with everything u said.. except for what u say about his mid game micro isn't as good as his end game micro..
how is that possible? o_O
Flash's strength is his unrivaled decisionmaking. This naturally plays the biggest part in lategame and is why he always tries to go for lategame oriented builds: he's just that good at it. On the other hand his mechanics are the weakest part of his play. Many of his losses can be traced to sloppy mechanics at bad times.
Basically when he does timing pushes Flash loses a lot of vultures needlessly and messes up with his pushes more than he should. This has less to do with purely decisions and more with that he's simply not that fast and doesn't have perfect control.
On the other hand he never ever loses a lategame battle because he makes every correct decision and he can fully concentrate on defeating the opponent's army, thus avoiding control mishaps. That's the best I can do to describe it, because try as I might to replicate Flash's late game battling, there's just something special that he does in always get the optimal battle arrangement no matter what the opponent does.
The best thing for Flash right now is for KTF to fail out of proleague and possibly OSL too, so long as it doesn't disrupt his rhythm. He has an easy MSL finals berth and a strong chance to make the GOM finals. The OSL qualification is really tough and if he makes it through in all 3 leagues it's likely he'll just have a schedule overload again (especially if KTF makes playoffs).
are you serious? imagine how he would feel personally if he kept losing. it'll affect his mental state more than the overtime schedule of practice that he has (if that's what he has now)
Honestly, falling out of Proleague would be really good for him. OSL is tougher to swallow but the level of competition there is insane.
Flash should make GOM finals (can't see him losing BO3 to Shuttle especially after their last encounter, and can't see him losing BO5 to Skyhigh or July, likely Skyhigh). Not sure how the MSL brackets will work (didn't they add the Kespa seeding rule so the current bracket only applies for round of 16?), but he might have an easy route there too.
Realistically, you can't expect anyone to win two leagues simultaneously anymore. Even the great Jaedong has repeatedly dropped out of one league early (or not even qualified!) over the past year and a half, and look who has made 4 finals (6 if you count WCG and GOM) compared to Flash's 2 (4 if you count GOM and GSI)?
All early dropouts are forgotten if you make (and especially if you win) finals. Jaedong has dropped out of leagues with a big thud (MSL ro32 last time? BackHo OSL? Tempest in GOM??) but no one seems to remember that now.
Even the final bonjwa, arguably the greatest player ever Savior didn't even make an OSL until the same time as his FIFTH MSL final.
I think you can expect people to win 2 leagues at once. A year ago Flash won GSI/Bacchus (GSI definitely was harder than almost all OSL/MSLs too). Half a year ago Bisu won Clubday and GSL 2, though his runs were very easy in comparison. You just can't expect Jaedong to do it lol. He just has to avoid proleague at the very least :/ (if proleague ended a month ago I would honestly be surprised if he won less than 2 titles).
Savior isn't that relevant though because a) proleague was far less frequent back then and there was no 3rd league and b) Savior could handle the workload plenty due to his bizarre training style. He just couldn't make it out of OSL prelims because he kept getting hit in random timing windows by newbies lol (that's just a guess given that the vods are unavailable). But Savior is really the best example to show that schedule overloads can be overcome, at least temporarily.
As for the other, Jaedong always drops out of 1-2 leagues really fast then wins the last one. He's never advanced really deep in two leagues at once besides when he lost in Arena MSL/won GSL 1. This is why he's never been seriously schedule overloaded (well and he's on Oz not KTF) You're definitely right about the forgetting though. That is Jaedong's strength it seems, to be able to concentrate on just one area and see it through. Flash tries to handle everywhere and collapses. Bisu randomly does one or the other to some degree or another.
We can just hope if Flash loses in OSL that he treats it like he did vs Jaedong in GOM S4 MSL where he rebounded to win 2 more series with strong determination. If he can't hold himself together and an OSL loss causes another game like vs Backho that's the end of it.
Can't zergs take the corner expos easily with a good simcity and a few lurkers? In mid-late game the threat of a zerg base in you line of expos can be quite threatening to tosses when cracklings and defilers are in play.
But Violet took his 3rd quite early and do have a good army. As long as he can keep his half of the map he can do well. He's well prepared for drops so he just needs to keep control of [his half] of middle and take 6 and 5.
On June 30 2009 20:27 stafu wrote: Why is Khan throwing away their chance to get into the finals? Can someone explain that to me? Last I heard they were like 6th place right?
Makes no sense at all..
January wanted Stork and Jangbi to focus on individual leagues but....
Of couse she didn't say anything about that but that'd be my guess...
On June 30 2009 20:49 jhNz wrote: imho violet is the most overrated player at the moment.
He was on a 9 game PL winning stream ffs. he isnt overrated. Many people just like him coz of his "cinderella story-like" rise in PL. If youve watched every single game of that stream, youll realize he isnt overrated.
You know should know very well that thing don't always go right. People can play badly. Yoon I think could've won had he played a little better scouting before sending arbs here and there. He could've attacked 3 sooner, altough he probably was short on units.
oDin I expected to lose, but he could've fought better at 815's nat.
Miracle knew what he was doing. Luxury screwed himself with the mutas, but had those mutas not die so futilely, Miracle would've just pushed out anyway and have his nat and his vessel count regardless of the fight at Lux's nat.
Whatever violet did, Great is a high-caliber player. He carried Khan when Stork and Jangbi weren't performing, and You can see just how hard lategame PvZ is by seeing Stork vs someone on the same map. Great just abused cracklings and the map (fact that nat-minonly-corner expo distance was linear and constatnly pressured and massed an army from hatcheries (vs Violet limited by gates) and took down 5 and 6.
Ah it all makes sense now... Khan put in crap players to force an ace match, just so FBH could do the mother of all ceremonies as Kahn decisively claims the playoffs from KT.
Did you see guy? FlaSh took something to see how many distance there is between keyboard and monitor? ahah ! FBH is really in good shape, so I guess this ace match will be really good. Good luck FlaSh
On June 30 2009 21:00 GoSu wrote: Did you see guy? FlaSh took something to see how many distance there is between keyboard and monitor? ahah ! FBH is really in good shape, so I guess this ace match will be really good. Good luck FlaSh
On June 30 2009 21:05 SilverSkyLark wrote: wth, why did they send out fbh...
becouse January has FBH at her anti-team. But seriously, who else did you expect to be sent out?Best possible choice imo, given current Khan's shape. edit:and of course expecting Flash as opponent
Bah, this is rediculous how on earth did luxury lose to that scrub, serously this is just a joke, violet losing to great and flash failing in tvt on medusa, wtf
On June 30 2009 21:48 LucasWoJ wrote: FBH is throwing this game. He just unseiged a bunch of tanks and waltzed into seiged tanks. What is he doing...
freeing up supply for bc's
I don't think this is the case because he moved them away after a few took damage/died. If he wanted to free up supply, would he not have sent 2 or3 or however many he needed to die and not 8-10 and then pull back?
If I were Flash i would be so pissed at 11. nat having gas closer to main, unlike other 2... >.< Now he is taking depleted gaysers from FBH's main and nat
omfg. Only Flash could win this game. And wow, seriously surprised FBH let that 12 o clock base snowball into such a bad situation. Flash now taking all the depleted gysers. FBH is still in the game imo... it's not completely lost... lol.. but it's looking bad. No facts, no supply...
Wow Flash the FUCKING HERO. I have never seen a comeback like that live. Holy god. THE HEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I'm so happy for KT right now.
WHAT THE HELL!? How the hell could FBH blow that, he had a fucking thousand times he could finish Flash without problems but did SHIT. How can someone be THAT hesitant to just attack when YOU'RE IN THE GODDAMN LEAD AND CAN FINISH IT ANY TIME!?
On June 30 2009 22:01 Fwmeh wrote: that was impossibly bad play by fbh
Dude, just enjoy it, it was a great game.
No. Maybe if you are an avid Flash fan, but even as a neutral observer, that game was bad. Too long, too passive, and too filled with fail.
agreed, i am a flash fan and a fbh hater, but there was no way in the world fbh could have lost that unless he got payed a lump sum of money to throw the game.
On June 30 2009 22:01 Fwmeh wrote: that was impossibly bad play by fbh
Dude, just enjoy it, it was a great game.
No. Maybe if you are an avid Flash fan, but even as a neutral observer, that game was bad. Too long, too passive, and too filled with fail.
i guess the only way that you cant enjoy a tvt like that is if your not a flash fan, a huge fbh fan or have a genearal dislike of tvt in the first place 95% of people on tl would enjoy that game imo
On June 30 2009 22:01 Fwmeh wrote: that was impossibly bad play by fbh
Dude, just enjoy it, it was a great game.
No. Maybe if you are an avid Flash fan, but even as a neutral observer, that game was bad. Too long, too passive, and too filled with fail.
I beg to differ
I dont care how bad FBH used his advantage, but that was fucking epic to watch. I dont know how many times I asked myself how flash ended up with so many units..
I'm honestly not sure what's with all the fbh hate.
He clearly had a huge advantage and was counting on riding that advantage to a clear win, so he played a passive game and didn't tech switch till far too late. Poor decision in retrospect, but I'm sure we could find plenty of games where the mindset worked. Other than that, his micro was pretty poor.
But honestly, this is more a case of Flash's defense being essentially perfect than anything else.
On June 30 2009 22:06 3 Lions wrote: I've always had a suspicion SC games were fixed somehow...
From FBH's expression alone you know it wasn't fixed.
Shush, they're trying to discredit Flash's win.
I'm not trying to discredit Flash's win. Or if somehow I am, it's not my intention. Flash played perfectly in the latter part of the game, and FBH didn't play well at all. That game was about both FBH's fail and Flash's greatness.
Honestly, everyone who thinks this was fixed, is just plain stupid, this would be the shittiest way to do it, just a failed cheese would be sufficient and nobody would say a word
If anything, this game showcases Flash's incredible tenacity... how many other players would have played so hard for so long, especially being at a disadvantage for forty minutes of the game? The kid is unbelievably mentally tough.
On June 30 2009 22:06 3 Lions wrote: I've always had a suspicion SC games were fixed somehow...
From FBH's expression alone you know it wasn't fixed.
Shush, they're trying to discredit Flash's win.
I'm not trying to discredit Flash's win. Or if somehow I am, it's not my intention. Flash played perfectly in the latter part of the game, and FBH didn't play well at all. That game was about both FBH's fail and Flash's greatness.
wtf FBH threw the match??? FBH gained the lead then threw it all away??
No thanks. Nice play by flash keeping his head on straight and sweating like a bastard =) The 3 tanks he had on the ramp coming out of 1 oclock exp kept picking off fbh's units not to mention the tanks flash would put up on his own cliff.. and how he managed to save 12oclock for so long .. maybe there is alot of haters on but that was some damn nice play
A comeback from awesome play is very fine. A comeback form a direct blunder is acceptable. But a comeback from one player doing basically nothing for 40 minutes and losing because of it? Not so much.
On June 30 2009 22:12 Fwmeh wrote: A comeback from awesome play is very fine. A comeback form a direct blunder is acceptable. But a comeback from one player doing basically nothing for 40 minutes and losing because of it? Not so much.
How can you comeback if the other player doesn't mess up? And FBH didn't do anything for 10 minutes, not 40. Stop exaggerating. The game was only slightly less than an hour. Are you saying Flash didn't play awesome? And thank you defining what a comeback is, because, you know, you can.
On June 30 2009 22:10 talismania wrote: If anything, this game showcases Flash's incredible tenacity... how many other players would have played so hard for so long, especially being at a disadvantage for forty minutes of the game? The kid is unbelievably mentally tough.
I think he would have given up if it weren't for the fact that if he didn't win, his team wouldn't be in the playoffs.
On June 30 2009 22:12 Fwmeh wrote: A comeback from awesome play is very fine. A comeback form a direct blunder is acceptable. But a comeback from one player doing basically nothing for 40 minutes and losing because of it? Not so much.
well. FBH never had more gas than flash which is the important thing in TvT. His position was of course way better than flashs. flash position was pretty safe tho.
The awesome micro FBH had in the early and mid game was totally missed in the late game.
But the major mistake was that he was afraid to attack the clump of tanks at the top expansion. Anyway, i can understand him in that since he was in the lead and when he would have failed that one attack he would have lost his lead within a second.
On June 30 2009 22:17 gameguard wrote: I still thought fbh had it if he just slowly yamatod his way in. Its kind of mind boggling how flash just methodically check mated him.
but it was also mind-boggling that fbh refused to defend
Anyone else think FBH got shaken with that BC fake by flash? I noticed fbh had more gollies in the latter parts. He prolly expected BCs from flash while flash just continued to pump gollies, some vults and tanks.
Looking at the players reactions and all Flash's sweat, I can say that isnt fixed.
On June 30 2009 21:20 Itachii wrote: Seriously, if flash wins this, it will be most epic comeback ever. I can't possibly see how he can do it tho
right on target that was an amazing comeback... one has to wonder how hard it is to keep such a high level of concentration for such a long time when you're so incredibly behind the entire way...
reminded me of boxer's comeback against joyo... it was that epic... no fear of defeat when he stared down joyo's army... too bad flash is still a kid, still doesn't have the killer face (unlike jd)
Sorry, that game was pretty fucking awesome purely from a drama point of view. KT and Khan both vying for the playoff spot going to ace match? Flash losing freaking 6 of his tanks for nothing in the early game?
Flash took so many great positions on the map, constantly punishing any early moves from FBH. Constantly moving units to high ground to stop 2 o clock from being taken (via the bridge) was genius, stopping 12 o clock from going up right as FBH hero was going to take it... I mean seriously, how could you watching that game not think "holy crap Flash is insane"? That game was unwinnable. Of course, FBH could have played it differently, but it wasn't thrown... like someone else said, FBH tried to ride out his advantage and it back fired in regard to the 12 expo.
Sick sick game. So happy for Flash. He looked so happy :D
LOL WTF with you ppl, TvT is like clearing mine field, you go 1 step too far and 1/2 of your tanks vaporizes... Sorry for disappointing you all people, but Koreans even though they make much great decisions and execute them even better, they do make mistakes, still these mistakes are way lesser than non-pro one's. And there was no huge game-breaking mistake in this game by FBH tbh
I really enjoyed this game, most of the time you couldn't tell which one will win - and such games are great for me. Last time i enjoyed watching game so much was PvZ on requiem - dont remember who was it, July vs BackHo? Low eco game, smth like 5 lings and few mutas vs goon and lots. If anyone remembers who did play that game please correct me
Only player capable of comming back from such situation was Flash, seriously. I am not tvt expert but someone should analyze this game later, Flash's genius at its best.
when i opened this thread only to view the results one hour ago, i just realized it didn't end yet. :D the last shot of flash was so epic. flash put up his hands and was ready to wear off headphones BEFORE fbh typed out gg.
On June 30 2009 22:39 fw wrote: when i opened this thread only to view the results one hour ago, i just realized it didn't end yet. :D the last shot of flash was so epic. flash put up his hands and was ready to wear off headphones BEFORE fbh typed out gg.
Yer I thought this might have happened. I waiting for FBH to gg, but all I see if Flash stand up get excited. Maybe be gg was not visible very well.
On June 30 2009 22:39 fw wrote: when i opened this thread only to view the results one hour ago, i just realized it didn't end yet. :D the last shot of flash was so epic. flash put up his hands and was ready to wear off headphones BEFORE fbh typed out gg.
Flash should of ceremony danced the robot since its fbh
On June 30 2009 22:35 konadora wrote: 46 people still on my stream + Show Spoiler +
being rickrolled
Is this a record for half an hour after a game? + Show Spoiler +
We're no strangers to ace, You know KeSPA and so do I, A full-hour game's what I'm thinking of, You wouldn't get this from any other guy.
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling, Gotta make you understand:
Never gonna give it up, Never gonna let you win, Gonna run round and round and defeat you. Gonna be the one to make you cry, Gonna make you say goodbye, And the hurt will last deep inside you.
We're played each other for so long, Your hands are aching, But you're too scared to say it: Inside we both know how it's going down, We know this game and how to play it.
And if you ask me how I'm feeling, My medic's made you too blind to see:
Never gonna give it up, Never gonna let you win...
On June 30 2009 22:39 fw wrote: when i opened this thread only to view the results one hour ago, i just realized it didn't end yet. :D the last shot of flash was so epic. flash put up his hands and was ready to wear off headphones BEFORE fbh typed out gg.
Flash should of ceremony danced the robot since its fbh
Nah, FBH didn't do any BM either, he must have a lot of respect for Flash.
On June 30 2009 22:39 fw wrote: when i opened this thread only to view the results one hour ago, i just realized it didn't end yet. :D the last shot of flash was so epic. flash put up his hands and was ready to wear off headphones BEFORE fbh typed out gg.
Flash should of ceremony danced the robot since its fbh
Nah, FBH didn't do any BM either, he must have a lot of respect for Flash.
Yup, I also don't recall FBH doing ceremonies when he won against Flash in the past. Being BM against a child (and especially well-mannered Flash) just isn't cool.
yeah now KT should really be able to make it to the playoffs, but man i didn't see this one going to ACE ;D seems like Violet is dropping games left and right now.
On July 01 2009 00:40 Phradamon wrote: Good job KTF, i hope they get to the playoffs to rein the crown over SKT enemies . Mwahahahaha
If KT gets into the play offs, they're most likely going to be 6th and will therefor face the 3rd place team which will most likely be STX. In a Bo7, I don't think KT can match STX...
sometimes i wonder why im a fan of a guy who has meet defeat after defeat in either proleague grand finals match or an ace match oh wells gg's <3 firebathero still. Sucks Violet lost.
Holy Fuck. Can't wait to see this game. I watched first 4 sets and came to check results and what I see. Apparetnly an amazing comeback from my favourite player!
I am so SO sad. I fell asleep last night at 2-0KT and I wake up to my favorite player on my favorite team narrowly losing some epic ace match. Firebathero why must you hurt me so? I'm not even consoled about liquibetting KT.
I hope this loss (and the previous loss to STX) slaps some sense into the Khan coaching staff and makes them realize that sending out these ridiculous lineups is a bad idea.
On July 01 2009 04:27 NovaTheFeared wrote: I hope this loss (and the previous loss to STX) slaps some sense into the Khan coaching staff and makes them realize that sending out these ridiculous lineups is a bad idea.
I don't know, it was pretty close, but I say send in jangbi not fbh.
On June 30 2009 22:03 Scaramanga wrote: thats right bitches flash back to no.1 pl player, and thats why
I was going to go through the thread and quote everyone who embarrassed themselves by doubting the Ultimate Weapon, but there are too many of you! Instead I will just quote the genius that is Scaramanga.
On June 30 2009 22:10 johanes wrote: Honestly, everyone who thinks this was fixed, is just plain stupid, this would be the shittiest way to do it, just a failed cheese would be sufficient and nobody would say a word
yeah but that wouldn't be as entertaining as this
if it was fixed, it would be for entertainment purposes and what better entertainment than an epic comeback? failed cheese is not even close
Wow, that's the first time I've seen someone jump out of their chair before their opponent even gg'd.
Amazing performance by Flash, what incredible stamina. He played longer and harder than all his teammates combined and spent most of his game against FBH fighting at a disadvantage.
That must have been one of his most satisfying wins ever. This is why he is KTF's Ultimate Weapon. (Some would say the Only Weapon.)
Here's another explanation: Assuming the match differential favors KTF, they need to win as many or more games than Khan. Thing is, they only get 2 sets to win, while Khan has 3. If the match differential favors Khan, then KTF needs to win more games than Khan.
On July 02 2009 04:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: Flash got behind in the ace match because he took an early 3rd. He's always greedy, but if he wins, he's a genius, and if he loses, he's idiotic.
On July 02 2009 04:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: Flash got behind in the ace match because he took an early 3rd. He's always greedy, but if he wins, he's a genius, and if he loses, he's idiotic.
no, it was his horrible tank placement
This and really good play from FBH in the early-mid game. He really used his early Starport to his advantage. And then played really well taking advantage of his superior ground army after he destroyed Flash's initial 6 tanks.
On July 01 2009 17:16 G3CKO wrote: No stork or jangbi?
They suck big time these days... Sad but true...
Yeah right... as if Stork and JB are losing to Yoon, miracle, and ODIN in the Khan house... Something is going on. Either the coach is just screwing around to try to get some depth in the playoffs, or she really doesn't want to see her team go to the playoffs at all. But there is no way in hell January thinks sitting Stork and JB will increase Khan's chances of winning a match.