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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:16 fusionsdf wrote: If we have to lynch someone on the first day, then it makes sense to lynch the person with the most clues against them, even if the clues aren't 100%. It makes just as much sense to lynch an inactive. edit: It* | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I can concede to that, but usually its 1-2 words. I more mentioned it as, using an entire encounter on day 1 as a clue towards one player is insanely hard to do, the whole scenario is just weird, he could still be mafia, but I would more say chances of pika chu being mafia off an entire scenario are really low. Think of it this way, his name is pika chu and chuiu likes using clues that are more roundabout or make you think in some way. Using someone who drops down, then charges someone then grabbing someones gun is highly unlikely to be the little rat we all love to hate from smash bros or pokemon. I mean hell if you want to look at areas that are potential clues as well He reached out his hand as if to help Chuiu up, Chuiu grabbed his hand with a puzzled look on his face and began to get up We know that the mafia in question here only helped him up to stab him but, why would Chuiu take that hand knowing he was someone he had just tried to arrest? Chances are its someone who confused him, or dazed him or the like. that could link to Trancestorm, Dreamflower As for your charging theme, that pika chu is being hit up for, go look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=LeperKahn That looks to be a pull or ram sort of thing, it could easily have been what charged, hands behind the head could signify horns. That all took me maybe 5-10 mins to look at, and are just as insubstantial as the rest. DAY 1 is not good for clue analysis, its normally not enough to hit a mafia with, sometimes we get lucky, but its not worth the hassle of hitting a potential blue or green. BC's saying some great stuff here, pals so I'm glad I voted for him. We've never got a mafia day 1 except accidentally jumping on a clue meant for someone else so I'm really nowhere near 100% on Pikachu's guilt, it's just the closest thing I've seen and everyone should be doing work to see what they can find. | ||
Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: but having his hands behind his head to indicate the tail isn't very likely, if they were behind his back maybe How is he going to "grabbed the gun and threw it to the side" with his hands behind his head if he doesn't have some other way to grab a gun beside his hands? Pyrr has suggested a tail and has provided a lot of supporting evidence and supporting clues to match a theme for this. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:31 Bockit wrote: How is he going to "grabbed the gun and threw it to the side" with his hands behind his head if he doesn't have some other way to grab a gun beside his hands? Pyrr has suggested a tail and has provided a lot of supporting evidence and supporting clues to match a theme for this. Thats why im more likely to believe it was leperkhan than pikachu. Pika chu's upper or front legs can't really reach behind his head, but leperkhan has like a ram or bull in his profile as a picture, hands behind the head could signify horns, he charges(would also fit theme) then uses horns to grab or rip them from chuiu's hands. That makes as much sense as a pika chu reference. Seriously guys, DAY ONE ANALYSIS is almost pointless. lynching an inactive first is more beneficial. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:31 Bockit wrote: How is he going to "grabbed the gun and threw it to the side" with his hands behind his head if he doesn't have some other way to grab a gun beside his hands? Pyrr has suggested a tail and has provided a lot of supporting evidence and supporting clues to match a theme for this. I suggested using a mouth (not a tail) to throw the gun. EDIT TO ADD: Mouth makes more sense to grab things than a ram's horns, imo. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
It looks like i'm going to be the first lynched. After you'll see i'm innocent i hope you will grow up and stop being so naive. Honestly, all the "clues" and connections that point me are very very forced. How is in any way better to lynch me if you think i'm more innocent than guilty? I mean it makes absolutely no sense since you are loosing one of your own, and the purpose is to kill mafia not kill your own just because it's the only one who has some weak clues pointing to him. And you don't even know my role, so you are risking killing a medic, or a bodyguard or a vigilante just because you have no better alternative. Basically risk loosing the game because you can't simply think outside the box and step by the first evidence you were given. And for those telling me to find clues. I honestly don't want to blame anyone. The only thing Pyrr did was find a clue and try and force connections with someone. I'm not going to try and frame someone like it's been done on me, for the sole purpose of not wanting to be found guilty when you'll be lynching one of ours because of my "findings". Remember guys, it's finding clues, making connections and finding the guy that is hard, not the way around. Finding the guy then making connections and finding clues is the easy way and it's the trap you've been set and most are falling into. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:38 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I suggested using a mouth (not a tail) to throw the gun. EDIT TO ADD: Mouth makes more sense to grab things than a ram's horns, imo. true but a rams horns make it easier to throw/rip something out of someones hands than a mouth does. Im not saying leperkhan is guilty im saying the clue can point as strongly to him, and prob 1-3 other people if you look into their profiles and the like. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Seriously guys, DAY ONE ANALYSIS is almost pointless. lynching an inactive first is more beneficial. I'm inclined to agree with this, we can always sit on this and keep a close eye on Pikachu's actions and see if more clues corroborate or disprove this while we go after someone who's not contributing / probably won't use their blue roles for good even if they have them. I think that behavior analysis is probably better earlier though Mr.BabyHands seems a little less than thorough to me so far. I think maybe looking at who is helping who and how certain they are about it may be helpful although certainly not foolproof. I say this because I'm pretty confuzzled at who to support at this point. Right now everyone has to choose someone to vote for and thus support but it should get more effective after day 1 to look at alliances. | ||
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Tricode
United States538 Posts
BC is the only one keeping his head straight about this and isn't going to take some poorly given evidence such as someone finally randomly posting, or some clues that are looked way to far into. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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rredtooth
5458 Posts
I think we should approach this game entirely differently. This game (or at least the format we play with) does not pit two teams against each other. It is not mafia versus townspeople. We often forget the third influence in this game, and that is Chuiu. I bring this up because I think we are analyzing the whole Pikachu situation wrong. Just as we can do "behavior analysis" on players in the game, we can also do this on Chuiu. He is, after all, as human as all of us and makes these clues up personally and without testing them beforehand. After the inertinept debacle of last game, I'm sure he's going to be much more conservative with giving out clues and might not even give any deadlock clues the first day, lest he look the fool for two games in a row. Also, place yourself in the position of a person running the TL Mafia game and charged with making the clues. Do you really have the though process of "Oh remember that one move Pikachu had in Super Smash where he bent over and tackled someone. Oh remember that one pokemon card that had Pikachu on it and had the move Tackle. There's a guy named Pikachu, what a coincidence! Let's make a clue about how someone moved a gun without his hands. How about we give Pikachu an ability he's never had before and have him throw the gun to the side." Next, some of the "evidence" presented against Pika Chu by Pyrr is weak if not straight up manipulative. I've stated how stupid the whole SSB train of thought was earlier. However, Pyrr is also presenting other items that might lead us the wrong way. On March 18 2009 08:19 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Pika Chu seems kind of lethargic in defending himself and only Nemy has tried to defend him and in doing so ignored the bulk of my analysis. Looking at this statement, Pyrr clearly states that the reason why he believes Pikachu is mafia is because Pikachu failed to provide any form of defense. My question is wouldn't a mafia be the first person to try to prove their own innocence? There's no way someone would make such an obvious move after being accused, especially if the mafia are in any form organized. Pikachu acted perfectly normal when he simply didn't do anything. Whether it was due to inactivity (activity in the game exploded overnight and I cannot describe the feeling of hopeless one experiences when you open this thread and see 25 pages already) or not having anything good to say we probably will never know but this doesn't change the fact that he was acting perfectly normal. On March 18 2009 08:19 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: If I was Pika Chu and innocent I'd be trying to defend myself by looking through the clues for someone else or continuing to restate the flaws some of the flaws in my analysis. So you basically want Pikachu to randomly accuse someone else to simply take the heat off of him. So you basically want Pikachu to use a mafia tactic of defense. On March 17 2009 17:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Anyone want to comment on my Pika Chu analysis? Here shows Pyrr's extremely enthusiastic approach to his accusation. This was from when his clue analysis was still considered a long shot and largely ignored (like it should have been). While enthusiasm in the game should generally be considered a good characteristic, enthusiasm in chasing a bad clue seems very very bad to me. Over the last few pages (which I've yet to finish), there have been many good points raised about Pikachu. It seems that we might have gotten lucky and might pick off a random mafia member. I don't really care about Pikachu's fate and agree with the general sentiment that we might as well kill him off. This isn't the point I was trying to get to. As a matter of fact, I would vote to lynch Pikachu right now. That being said, I refrain from and discourage voting for Pyrr. Not because I think he's a mafia (I'm pretty sure he's not) but because he is even more dangerous if he is a towny. This overambitious and overzealous pursual of a lynch won't do the town any good in the long run. Risky behavior might be useful in the lower levels but will destroy the game if exhibited by the leadership. Therefore, I cast my vote for the person who appears the wisest and most consistently thoughtful through the game so far. ##I cast my vote for semioldguy. He also had the most colorful posts. + Show Spoiler + In all seriousness, though, it just means he worked on his posts more and thought it through carefully before clicking submit. He's not just blurting out stuff and regretting that there is a no edit rule. g'day | ||
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rredtooth
5458 Posts
Sorry guys and good luck wading through all of that. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:55 redtooth wrote: Holy crap that turned into a straight up essay. Sorry guys and good luck wading through all of that. Don't matter, you raised valid issues, and voted responsibly, what more can we ask for. | ||
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iLoveKT
Philippines3615 Posts
I agree with the pikachu part wholeheartedly. :D | ||
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BWdero
Netherlands476 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:55 redtooth wrote: Holy crap that turned into a straight up essay. Sorry guys and good luck wading through all of that. No need to apologize, taking the effort to write long and well thought out posts is a good thing. I disagree with you on Pyrr beeing overzealous though. I was rather impressed with the effort put into that post. And he has already admitted that he realizes that as a day one analysis it's most likely wrong. It's still the best case against anyone we have though. Yeah the clue could point towards others but still, we have to lynch someone on day 1. Though lynching an inactive does seem like an alternative worth considering. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
1. You said Chuiu will be trying to avoid the inertinept mistake again. Well inertinept isn't even the first time that's happen. Someone with a coffee-related name got inadvertently nailed day one before and QQed - its always a risk and you'd have to be superhuman to avoid it with 65 players with names and profiles and so on. Look at how Chuiu took criticism from Ace - he doesn't give a fuck, he's confident in his abilities. 2. "How about we give Pikachu an ability he's never had before and have him throw the gun to the side." Because I totally didn't post a video of Pikachu doing just that. 3. You said Pikachu reacted normally and I'm being bloodthirsty by looking for input on my contribution. Alright, thinking as someone running for mayor and knowing that we have to pick someone day 1 im looking for input on what might be a better move than the one I had the courage to take the risk of bringing up first. I figure Pika Chu would be motivated to do so, although in retrospect I shouldn't expect him to. Chuiu's clues weren't that tough even on day 1 last time. Raxor = = razor = sharp man? That's doable early, I think. There's nothing wrong asking for input I put a lot of thought into it and wanted to have people knock holes in it or give their own ideas but no one really even came up with an alternate target for the MANDATORY (meaning I'm not blood thirsty for bringing it up) day 1 lynch until MrBabyHands threw out mandalor on about page 20. Participation is a must for the town to win, I'd be wrong to not encourage it. 4. As a matter of fact, I would vote to lynch Pikachu right now. Would you have came to that conclusion if I hadn't presented my case with such gusto? I've admitted this whole time that I know this has a high risk of being wrong but it's the best I've got for day one which seems to be what you're thinking so why am I a landmine the town must steer clear of? | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 19 2009 09:41 Pika Chu wrote: I change my vote for BloodyC0bbler. It looks like i'm going to be the first lynched. After you'll see i'm innocent i hope you will grow up and stop being so naive. Honestly, all the "clues" and connections that point me are very very forced. How is in any way better to lynch me if you think i'm more innocent than guilty? I mean it makes absolutely no sense since you are loosing one of your own, and the purpose is to kill mafia not kill your own just because it's the only one who has some weak clues pointing to him. And you don't even know my role, so you are risking killing a medic, or a bodyguard or a vigilante just because you have no better alternative. Basically risk loosing the game because you can't simply think outside the box and step by the first evidence you were given. And for those telling me to find clues. I honestly don't want to blame anyone. The only thing Pyrr did was find a clue and try and force connections with someone. I'm not going to try and frame someone like it's been done on me, for the sole purpose of not wanting to be found guilty when you'll be lynching one of ours because of my "findings". Remember guys, it's finding clues, making connections and finding the guy that is hard, not the way around. Finding the guy then making connections and finding clues is the easy way and it's the trap you've been set and most are falling into. look, I don't want you to be lynched. If you want to stay alive, why not due some clue analysis of your own? If someone is a more likely suspect than you then it makes you safer right? I should point out that the first game MTF played this came up and he was about to be lynched. We encouraged to save himself, and he did by posting amazing clue analyses. Don't get mad at us if you get lynched; its because you didnt put enough effort into keeping yourself alive. About the inactives: yes, thats also a good method to lynch on. Does anyone have a list of inactives? | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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BWdero
Netherlands476 Posts
On March 19 2009 10:26 fusionsdf wrote: About the inactives: yes, thats also a good method to lynch on. Does anyone have a list of inactives? I'll make one, give me some time. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 19 2009 10:26 fusionsdf wrote:Does anyone have a list of inactives? I think when we get the next vote count it'll be missing a bunch of names unfortunately and I think that'll give us a good start on one | ||
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