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On January 05 2009 09:14 FzeroXx wrote:
Sorry I'm not a thug like you baal. Not everyone has the same opinions and its pretty incredible that you're willing to dismiss thousands of years of culture for a TV phenomenon of hitting people for bloodsport.
MMA is not a TV phenomenon you idiot, UFC, which is only 1 organization of MMA in the US got really famous in USA, thats pretty much it, PRIDE in Japan existed looooooooooooong before UFC and long before the media exposure.
Also who gives a shit about culture, im not discussing the importance or anything related to chinese or asian culture, that is meaningless, the fact is that most martial arts are plain inefficient and MMA has proved that over and over and over.
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this can only be solved by a 1v1 mma grudge match with a live stream
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On January 05 2009 09:22 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 08:52 fanatacist wrote:
Thanks for the informative post baal. What do you think of Bruce Lee's fighting style? It's a mix of other martial arts, so it shouldn't have the specific weaknesses of only taekwando or kung fu, etc. Also, I think the strength of the user should be considered in the fact that to perform certain techniques that make say JJ > kung fu (arbitrary example) would be impossible due to the level of mastery of the kung fu user. Is this somewhat true? I'm not knowledgeable about the details of trained fighting so I'm just wondering.
Could current fighters take down Bruce Lee? Bruce Lee was definitelly walking the right path and you could see he was one of the fathers of MMA. He actually tried to get rid of all the martial arts "bullshit" and created Jun Fan Jee Kune Do. Bruce Lee actually said that the perform of Katas and forms were like trying to learn how to swim in dry land, and he even trained some grappling techniques for the ground. So Bruce Lee is actually a mixed martial artist, however since he were raised in them and he had no one to really compete against in a sport-like envirmoent like current MMA, he didnt develop the exact right techniques, he over emphatized the importance of speed and still used old and useless stands and techniques. On your question about Bruce Lee competing in modern MMA, well the "old" Lee, lets say you revive him with no new training, he would be a competent fighter in his weight class, he would be definitely beating by the top fighters in his weight class tho. If u revive Lee and let him train with a modern MMA concept he would probably be champion of his weight class in a short time. He would get absolutely destroyed regardless of any kind of training in higher weight classes like light heavy weight or heavy weight on current MMA, the weight difference is just simply too big.
I see, another great post. Thanks!
What do you mean the over-emphasis of speed? I figured that that would be his strength in competing against current MMA fighters, seeing as he had some record-breaking fighting speeds (straight jab from resting, I believe). Are you saying that it's too much of a power sacrifice? Wouldn't speed help him land more hits and counter the opponent better? Please elaborate if you have the time.
Also I read in another one of your posts about the vs. 4 guys of the same weight as you. Is there any form of martial art or fighting style that is specifically designed or is just significantly better for fighting vs. multiple targets? I'm assuming that styles that are based heavily on grappling are weaker than pure standing fighting techniques, but I may be wrong. I'd like to hear your take on this [:
EDIT: Also, why is that style better than others? Thanks n_n
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On January 05 2009 09:05 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 09:02 baal wrote:On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years. You stupid ignorant moron, first of all MMA came from the EASTERN culture for example Pride. Training mind and body? what a load of bullshit, then go to the gym, work the body in a better way and read a book. Is it true that training your body in the gym is not the same as through martial arts training (in terms of increasing fighting capabilities) because it trains muscles that are not necessarily used in practical combat? Once again I am going on minimal knowledge and assumption.
like what muslces you dont train in MMA??
cuz they seem pretty well built imo
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On January 05 2009 09:24 baal wrote:
the fact is that most martial arts are plain inefficient and MMA has proved that over and over and over.
Your logic is wrong, your "fact" can only support Most martial arts are plain ineffecient in MMA with MMA rules, and MMA has proved that over and over and over again.
read my post in the last page see and give me a reply plz.
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So PRIDE wasn't aimed at an audience? Who gives a shit if it wasn't on TV in the USA. You're still pitting two people against each other in a fight for an audience. It has nothing to do with anything important besides learning the best way to hurt someone else. I'm sorry if I don't back that. Who gives a shit about culture? Probably one of the most moronic statements on TL.
"I'm not dismissing..."
"That is meaningless"
I'm not arguing the viability of martial art in a fighting arena. Martial art is not about a showcase of skill for an audience or anything you would consider valuable. I'm just trying to explain that not everyone is going to see the world in the way you do, so your argument of dismissal of a valuable part of half the world's culture is pretty insane.
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On January 05 2009 09:32 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 09:05 fanatacist wrote:On January 05 2009 09:02 baal wrote:On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years. You stupid ignorant moron, first of all MMA came from the EASTERN culture for example Pride. Training mind and body? what a load of bullshit, then go to the gym, work the body in a better way and read a book. Is it true that training your body in the gym is not the same as through martial arts training (in terms of increasing fighting capabilities) because it trains muscles that are not necessarily used in practical combat? Once again I am going on minimal knowledge and assumption. like what muslces you dont train in MMA?? cuz they seem pretty well built imo
I meant in the gym, not in MMA. Like if you are doing benchpresses it won't necessarily enhance your fighting capability as well as you would if you were doing MMA/traditional martial arts training. Is this true/logical?
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On January 05 2009 09:33 rei wrote:
Your logic is wrong, your "fact" can only support Most martial arts are plain ineffecient in MMA with MMA rules, and MMA has proved that over and over and over again.
read my post in the last page see and give me a reply plz.
this is true 
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Some people only base their perception of what martial art is about with what they see in MMA, and call that all there is to martial art, in the same time insist on everything that does not work in MMA is utterly useless. There is a saying in Chinese for these kind of people, "A frog sitting under a well can only see a very very small portion of the sky."
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On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years.
I was about to say the same, if my goal is to "beat" you I'm just gonna shoot you in the head...lol
Martial arts are not only about how to best brutalize an individual in a fight for TV
And christ listening to Baal is fucking irritating, he calls everyone a faggot and an idiot constantly
I think if I knew him in real life iId find it hard NOT to shoot him in the face
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na just turn his false logics side way, shine it up real nice, and shove it his candy ass.
Making someone realize they are wrong for so long can hurt much more than a punch in the face,
Because they will realize how stupid they were. The more they clinch to their mistakes and biatches at people who pointed out their wrongs, the more they will suffer, because they know deep inside that they are wrong, but they just can't let themselves be wrong, they have a face to save. The only thing left to do is insult anyone who make them realize how wrong they are, in an attempt to make themselves feel better.
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How did this turn into a argument thread? did you not pay attention to what Donnie said in the movie when he fought the guy in his house, "it has nothing to do with style rather the person".
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Also if u want to only stand-up facing multiple enemies the only option is Muay Thai, not retarded martial arts. No it isn't, that's the problem. Muay Thai is the best option against unarmed assailants who don't have a large reach or weight advantage, but there are plenty of situations in which you'll need to deal with grapples and armed opponents in real fights which Muay Thai simply won't help you with. Even then, Krav Maga is better in the above situation, and in most fights in general.
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On January 05 2009 10:20 Magibon wrote:
How did this turn into a argument thread? did you not pay attention to what Donnie said in the movie when he fought the guy in his house, "it has nothing to do with style rather the person".
That's exactly what I tried to say in my other post
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2009 07:57 rei wrote:
This one funny fact to consider, do you know what is the strongest muscle in a human body? MMA and all other forms of martial art competition prevent the usage of that muscle, in real fights human are allow to use that.(even Bruce lee said in an interview he would use that muscle if he had to in a real fight)
and please do not talk about what style is better than other style in a real fight, that serves no purpose. The "better" you are talking about is in the man, not in the "style" if you know what I am getting at.
Just because all your narrow eyes see are Fedor domination in MMA doesn't mean that there isn't an Vietnam vet somewhere that can kill him in a split second in a real fight. A chinese saying: "There is always a higher mountain elsewhere."
I agree with baal that styles are all use to achieve the same end, but i do not agree with the "useless" part, the arts you see in martial art demonstrations or daily practices are used to build up different muscles in strength, as well as timing of the move (ever heard of "shadow boxing"?)
Back in the days people do not have modern equipments to train a specific muscle in order preform a move better, so they rely on doing that move over and over so that same muscle can build up over time. (The hardest muscles to train are the Smooth muscle aka involuntary muscle)
Do you know there are many many moves in jujitsu that they are not allow to preform in MMA? just like many many moves in mui tai that would deal legal damage in merely one hit. In real fight they aim for 1 hit kill, there is no ground and pound, Fador would kill the guy in a second instead of riding him for 10 minutes.
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How is BAAL wrong?
The defense you guys use is "thousands of years of culture" which is suppose to mean what?
Are there any visual evidence of these stunning martial artists and their feats against competent fighters? Cause there is with MMA...
I thought we were talking about fighting, no need to bring up that MA is a way of life crap.
L - surprised no one had brought up Krav Maga until now.
ps. Before anyone spaz, I mean this as an honest inquiry.
I thought Baal was making a point of saying that MMA would be more effective in a fight than many of the old martial arts.
Somehow that point seems to have shifted to include other considerations.
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On January 05 2009 10:23 Spike wrote:
How is BAAL wrong?
On January 05 2009 09:33 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 09:24 baal wrote:
the fact is that most martial arts are plain inefficient and MMA has proved that over and over and over. Your logic is wrong, your " fact" can only support Most martial arts are plain ineffecient in MMA with MMA rules, and MMA has proved that over and over and over again. read my post in the last page see and give me a reply plz.
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Nobody in this thread is arguing that MMA fighters can beat Martial artists. I don't see how you can misunderstand this. We're arguing that throwing out martial arts as a whole is a fucking idiotic thing to say. At least that's what I'm arguing. You're calling martial art useless because it sucks in MMA.
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Norway28528 Posts
thats actually a pretty valid point
like, i always think its "funny" when people claim that "lol fedor would get raped by a real kung fu fighter they're just not allowed to fight in MMA cuz they kill their opponents" cause it's obviously an ignorant claim to make
but it's really annoying when people dismiss more traditional martial arts because they "dont make you as great of a fighter" as mixed martial arts training does; this is hardly the sole, or even main purpose of traditional martial arts.
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^Rei: You raise a good point; somehow I missed that post.
Still, it would be nice to actually see some of these martial artists.
Rei, you must admit, the idea of some vietnam vet killing a competent fighter in a split second is lol.
All we have is conjecture 
FzeroXx - Obviously MA is about more than fighting. However, I was just looking for a comparison of the fighting component.
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