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The existance of MMA (Pride, UFC, Affliction etc) since the early 90s showed the world which ones were the fighting styles that were actually useful in real fights.
Martial arts such as: Taekwondo (in which by the way i have a black belt), KungFu, Wushu, Wing Chun, Hapkido etc were quickly dismissed because they lacked many fundamentals.
Some of them were absolutely retarded like Taekwondo or Wing Chun some were relatively decent like Kung Fu but their forms were just "art" and not practical, their stances were dumb (hands down etc, unpractical foot positioning) the punches and kick lacked power and so on, and also they were almost all useless on the ground.
So those were quickly eliminated as useful in real fights in Mixed Martial Arts but some survived like:
Jiujitsu, Judo, Sambo (russian), Muay Thai, Wrestling.
Of those remaining ones, Jiujitsu was too weak, as an easter martial art it also contained "art" and forms and so called spirituality which the Brazilians took out and made a much better fighting style, BJJ.
BJJ does fine in submissions but the takedowns are weak, its still incomplete in the sense that it cannot fight on their feet however its probably the most efective fighting style if you had to choose only one.
Judo did ok for some time but it then proved to be inferior to BJJ and Wrestling also so it dissapeared.
Sambo does well to date but its not very widespread, it lacks on punching tho so its incomplete.
Muay Thai is almost perfect standing up but its incomplete because it doesnt teach any ground.
Wrestling does good but its really bad for submissions so its used more as a complementary defense against BJJ or offence against people with bad ground game.
To date the most predominant styles that mixed seem to dominate others are Muay Thai + BJJ
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can ground and pound be considered a style?
or is it not really a fighting style on it's own?
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lol baal wtf are you talking about wing chun is kung fu rofl
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On January 05 2009 07:05 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
lol baal wtf are you talking about wing chun is kung fu rofl
all he's stating is that theres a difference between past martial arts and modern martial arts and giving examples.
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On January 05 2009 07:05 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
lol baal wtf are you talking about wing chun is kung fu rofl
Kung Fu is the western way to call every chinese martial art, so Wing Chung is a form of Kung fu
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On January 05 2009 06:50 travis wrote:
can ground and pound be considered a style?
or is it not really a fighting style on it's own?
Yeah it could be called a style however styles nowadays are almost non-existant since people who GnP usually do other stuff in the mix like submission attempts like Fedor does, the tendency is the erradication of "styles" and "martial arts", just pure fighting, styles after all are only useless forms to archieve an end and that is to win a fight, so in the end there will be no styles.
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so how come u say wing chun is retarded but kung fu is relatively decent? lol
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MMA is designed to show who will win in a 1 on 1 fight. Martial arts in general didn't have that requirement about them. Generally speaking if you get taken to the ground against a group of opponents, regardless of whether or not you have friends around you're probably getting a steel toed boot to the brain, and you're out of the fight.
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Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years.
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This one funny fact to consider, do you know what is the strongest muscle in a human body? MMA and all other forms of martial art competition prevent the usage of that muscle, in real fights human are allow to use that.(even Bruce lee said in an interview he would use that muscle if he had to in a real fight)
and please do not talk about what style is better than other style in a real fight, that serves no purpose. The "better" you are talking about is in the man, not in the "style" if you know what I am getting at.
Just because all your narrow eyes see are Fedor domination in MMA doesn't mean that there isn't an Vietnam vet somewhere that can kill him in a split second in a real fight. A chinese saying: "There is always a higher mountain elsewhere."
I agree with baal that styles are all use to achieve the same end, but i do not agree with the "useless" part, the arts you see in martial art demonstrations or daily practices are used to build up different muscles in strength, as well as timing of the move (ever heard of "shadow boxing"?)
Back in the days people do not have modern equipments to train a specific muscle in order preform a move better, so they rely on doing that move over and over so that same muscle can build up over time. (The hardest muscles to train are the Smooth muscle aka involuntary muscle)
Do you know there are many many moves in jujitsu that they are not allow to preform in MMA? just like many many moves in mui tai that would deal legal damage in merely one hit. In real fight they aim for 1 hit kill, there is no ground and pound, Fador would kill the guy in a second instead of riding him for 10 minutes.
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this thing looks awesome - I forgot to bookmark it when I was searching for some new martial arts movies to watch. thx for creating this topic!
I wish they showed this somewhere in New York City - I was hoping some foreign independent movie theaters might. Lemme know if any of you guys know.
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On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years.
i gotta agree with this. MMA portrays martial arts incorrectly because they leave out the "boring " moral and philosophies of martial arts.
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Thanks for the informative post baal. What do you think of Bruce Lee's fighting style? It's a mix of other martial arts, so it shouldn't have the specific weaknesses of only taekwando or kung fu, etc. Also, I think the strength of the user should be considered in the fact that to perform certain techniques that make say JJ > kung fu (arbitrary example) would be impossible due to the level of mastery of the kung fu user. Is this somewhat true? I'm not knowledgeable about the details of trained fighting so I'm just wondering.
Could current fighters take down Bruce Lee?
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On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years.
You stupid ignorant moron, first of all MMA came from the EASTERN culture for example Pride.
Training mind and body? what a load of bullshit, then go to the gym, work the body in a better way and read a book.
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On January 05 2009 09:02 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 07:23 FzeroXx wrote:
Honestly who gives a shit how practical they are? Learning martial arts isn't about being able to beat up other professional fighters in duels. I'll get out my gun and kill you if I want to beat you. Martial arts is a system of training mind/body. MMA is one of the most useless things to come out of western culture in the last 100 years. You stupid ignorant moron, first of all MMA came from the EASTERN culture for example Pride. Training mind and body? what a load of bullshit, then go to the gym, work the body in a better way and read a book.
Is it true that training your body in the gym is not the same as through martial arts training (in terms of increasing fighting capabilities) because it trains muscles that are not necessarily used in practical combat? Once again I am going on minimal knowledge and assumption.
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On January 05 2009 07:23 L wrote:
MMA is designed to show who will win in a 1 on 1 fight. Martial arts in general didn't have that requirement about them. Generally speaking if you get taken to the ground against a group of opponents, regardless of whether or not you have friends around you're probably getting a steel toed boot to the brain, and you're out of the fight.
BJJ =/= MMA, true, jiujitsu does poor against many oponents, but everything does, if you are facing 4 guy of your size that are not pussies ur going to get ur ass stomped.
so again MMA is not jiujitsu, the majority of the MMA fighters dont go for takedowns as their weapons they rather stand but are competent on the ground.
Also if u want to only stand-up facing multiple enemies the only option is Muay Thai, not retarded martial arts.
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On January 05 2009 07:57 rei wrote:
This one funny fact to consider, do you know what is the strongest muscle in a human body? MMA and all other forms of martial art competition prevent the usage of that muscle, in real fights human are allow to use that.(even Bruce lee said in an interview he would use that muscle if he had to in a real fight)
and please do not talk about what style is better than other style in a real fight, that serves no purpose. The "better" you are talking about is in the man, not in the "style" if you know what I am getting at.
Just because all your narrow eyes see are Fedor domination in MMA doesn't mean that there isn't an Vietnam vet somewhere that can kill him in a split second in a real fight. A chinese saying: "There is always a higher mountain elsewhere."
I agree with baal that styles are all use to achieve the same end, but i do not agree with the "useless" part, the arts you see in martial art demonstrations or daily practices are used to build up different muscles in strength, as well as timing of the move (ever heard of "shadow boxing"?)
Back in the days people do not have modern equipments to train a specific muscle in order preform a move better, so they rely on doing that move over and over so that same muscle can build up over time. (The hardest muscles to train are the Smooth muscle aka involuntary muscle)
Do you know there are many many moves in jujitsu that they are not allow to preform in MMA? just like many many moves in mui tai that would deal legal damage in merely one hit. In real fight they aim for 1 hit kill, there is no ground and pound, Fador would kill the guy in a second instead of riding him for 10 minutes.
Depends how do you judge the muscle strenght, if its for applied pressure then it is the jaw muscle, about sheer power is the Quadricepts.
You know absolutely nothing about fighting, there are better styles you idiot, its not the man also the style, why do you see hundreds of fighters using Muay Thai in MMA and not a single one using WuShu?, coincidence?
Id like to know those Jiujitsu moves not allowed in MMA, because past UFC (and current asosiation like RioHeroes) had pretty much only 2 rules:
1.- No biting
2.- No eye gouging.
They even allowed groin punches/kicks.
I can see your ignorance about fighting because you are the clasical dumb kid who believes in martial art movies and the " 1 hit kill " there is no such thing you moron, you sure could punch an untrained person in the chest and break his spleen.
Also its a retarded concept if its a fight to death ur goal is to knock them out, becaus as soon as they are out you can just stomp them to death, or to just break an arm or a join, because they are as good as dead.
There is no Vietnam vet who will kill fedor in a split of a second ROFL what int he fuck haha.
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Sorry I'm not a thug like you baal. Not everyone has the same opinions and its pretty incredible that you're willing to dismiss thousands of years of culture for a TV phenomenon of hitting people for bloodsport.
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I think the guy playing Ip man is so undeserving of his part..... all his other movies suck ass... oh well atleast he'll have one good movie for me to watch
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On January 05 2009 08:52 fanatacist wrote:
Thanks for the informative post baal. What do you think of Bruce Lee's fighting style? It's a mix of other martial arts, so it shouldn't have the specific weaknesses of only taekwando or kung fu, etc. Also, I think the strength of the user should be considered in the fact that to perform certain techniques that make say JJ > kung fu (arbitrary example) would be impossible due to the level of mastery of the kung fu user. Is this somewhat true? I'm not knowledgeable about the details of trained fighting so I'm just wondering.
Could current fighters take down Bruce Lee?
Bruce Lee was definitelly walking the right path and you could see he was one of the fathers of MMA.
He actually tried to get rid of all the martial arts "bullshit" and created Jun Fan Jee Kune Do.
Bruce Lee actually said that the perform of Katas and forms were like trying to learn how to swim in dry land, and he even trained some grappling techniques for the ground.
So Bruce Lee is actually a mixed martial artist, however since he were raised in them and he had no one to really compete against in a sport-like envirmoent like current MMA, he didnt develop the exact right techniques, he over emphatized the importance of speed and still used old and useless stands and techniques.
On your question about Bruce Lee competing in modern MMA, well the "old" Lee, lets say you revive him with no new training, he would be a competent fighter in his weight class, he would be definitely beating by the top fighters in his weight class tho.
If u revive Lee and let him train with a modern MMA concept he would probably be champion of his weight class in a short time.
He would get absolutely destroyed regardless of any kind of training in higher weight classes like light heavy weight or heavy weight on current MMA, the weight difference is just simply too big.
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EPT
