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Wowww look at those streaks. I almost always expect Leta to win in PL matches but I didn't realize he'd been quite this dominant.
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On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory
You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar.
If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Oh and btw, I can't beleive you just said that I dont understand how great those two games were rofllllllllll
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On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion.
that's why chess sucks/is boring.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 17 2008 21:11 Tianx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:08 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory i think about half the active roster of pro terran players would have won those two games given the same build orders - sea played reaaaaaaaally bad  god he threw so many scvs away on terrible break attempts What would you have recommended in Sea's position halfway through? Going for a big timing push right before Leta's 4th kicked in?
basically any offensive gesture besides what he chose
taking his in-base third and sieging the turrets blocking him in from 9 would have been a great help, from there he could have utilized dropships properly. With the game essentially dead-even and Leta's slow, methodical style, Sea's aggressiveness was the proper mindset but his execution was god-awful. you just can't lose so many tanks and scvs so carelessly against someone who plays TvT like Leta
sea's biggest mistake that game was letting Leta get such a good position while his own tank number was superior right at the beginning - retreating back to his own temple gave up a significant chunk of real estate that he failed over and over again to get back
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On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?)
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On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?)
I'd compare Leta to Capablanca =O Very methodical and patient when he know he can win that way.
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On December 17 2008 21:22 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) I'd compare Leta to Capablanca =O Very methodical and patient when he know he can win that way.
Capablanca was a natural talent, a chess genious who got good with almost pure talent. That's Flash to me, not Leta.
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On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?)
Chess at the top level is boring, because games tend to end in draws. And the amount of precision required is usually lost for the common people.
The one awesome thing Starcraft have over normal "board games" like chess or go is the undiscovered map/fog of war. So neither player has all the information when making their decisions.
OTOH, it's also why watchers like us question seemingly stupid decisions by players, since we have maphack.
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Thanks, Steve. I figured Sea could've done a lot more if he wasn't sloppy, but I didn't know what would be best.
Also, I figured out the best word to describe Leta's play: Clean. He was as aggressive as possible while still maintaining safety, not once overextending himself. Every time he pushed, it was an extremely methodical manner. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep his composure against players that fight dirty (Bisu, an in-form July).
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On December 17 2008 21:26 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) Chess at the top level is boring, because games tend to end in draws. And the amount of precision required is usually lost for the common people. The one awesome thing Starcraft have over normal "board games" like chess or go is the undiscovered map/fog of war. So neither player has all the information when making their decisions. OTOH, it's also why watchers like us question seemingly stupid decisions by players, since we have maphack.
Of course =P But that's when the flashy chess games come in. As in, Morphy's games, or especially Mikhail Tal's, who basically sacrificed in over 50% of his games when other players didn't almost ever. Current chess is pretty boring yeah, minus Kasparov.
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On December 17 2008 21:30 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:26 baubo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) Chess at the top level is boring, because games tend to end in draws. And the amount of precision required is usually lost for the common people. The one awesome thing Starcraft have over normal "board games" like chess or go is the undiscovered map/fog of war. So neither player has all the information when making their decisions. OTOH, it's also why watchers like us question seemingly stupid decisions by players, since we have maphack. Of course =P But that's when the flashy chess games come in. As in, Morphy's games, or especially Mikhail Tal's, who basically sacrificed in over 50% of his games when other players didn't almost ever. Current chess is pretty boring yeah, minus Kasparov.
SO IM RIGHT THANK YOU.
2 hours of positional advantage --> draw = BORING! HAH
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On December 17 2008 21:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:22 Fwmeh wrote:On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) I'd compare Leta to Capablanca =O Very methodical and patient when he know he can win that way. Capablanca was a natural talent, a chess genious who got good with almost pure talent. That's Flash to me, not Leta.
Good point. My problem with Flash is that his excellent mechanics often take away from his strategical brilliance (which btw has fluctuated recently) while Leta to my eyes have quite weaker multitasking. Flash can often win through dominating force, Leta almost never does that.
For me to give an example, Flash vs Fantasy on Andromeda some time ago. After a somewhat weak start, Flash is suddenly all over Fantasy with beautiful drop play, showing his monstrous multitasking, stomping Fantasy hard. OTOH we have Leta's latest games, all quite passive, Leta not really appearing to be doing much, just gradually solidifying his position.
BTW, who would you then concider the Bobby Fischer of SC?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 17 2008 21:09 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On December 17 2008 21:00 Plexa wrote:
Bosung looks really disappointed with that game and rightly so =/
i dont think i've seen sea this pissed before
But hey, Leta 2-1 2-0 as expected
seriously steve, sea is no where near PR material atm you are wrong you are someone who doesn't understand how high above the current standard of TvZ his game against Jaedong was, and how masterful his game against Iris was Sea's spot on December's rank is completely justified, Leta certainly hasn't shown himself capable of games at that level. Yes, this series changes things. The outcome is not predetermined and before this series Sea's placement was correct. He made many, many mistakes in those two games that he really should not be making. Steve, i trust you've seen Savior vs Sea on Andromeda right? That game was basically the same as the Jaedong game, except sea made one or two more mistakes and ended up losing from an advantage. Sea managed to hold and on win vs Jaedong - it was an impressive game! However, having a very strong TvZ shouldn't be all you need to get #10 on PR. Leta's achievements across the past month and bit (like his 14-4 record in proleauge) far outweigh Sea's one awesome game. Oh yea, i hope you haven't forgotten about Sea vs EffOrt yet either, that wasn't a pretty game.
there is a very clear difference between those two games. they might appear similar, but they aren't. Sea's game against Jaedong was wickedly one-sided in a lot of regards, the saving grace was Jaedong's unreal defiler control. Sea's play against Savior was fairly run-of-the-mill in terms of what the better SK style TvZ players can do, but his play against Jaedong was something special - with ease the strongest display of TvZ we've seen in many months. The level of multitasking and game intelligence required to play SK that well is ridiculous, especially considering how strong a performance it was relative to what other top Terrans are currently capable of. Sea vs Jaedong was monumentally important.
However, though sea is capable of playing better than any Terran in the world in all three matchups (as he occasionally does), he is incredibly inconsistant. Sea plays phenomenally bad sometimes, tonight is certainly a good example. He makes a ton of mistakes in many of his matches, but when he is really and truly on top of his shit, he is utterly unmatched.
Sea also brutally rolled his MSL Survivor group, playing exceedingly well in both games. There is a reason people are always hyped up about Sea. Regardless of what you may assume goes on in my mind, I'm a Sea fan because he is at times the most incredible Terran in the world. Sea vs Jaedong was one of those games. This series against Leta sure as fuck wasn't. But when those games happen with increasing frequency, it's much more important than a solid, textbook Terran doing well in ProLeague.
I don't think Sea is this good because he's my favourite player, he's my favourite player because he is this good. However, with this display his consistancy is once again in the spotlight, and unless he massacres MSL with stellar gameplay and Leta crashes and burns, he's off the Rank again. The 10th spot was all that was up for grabs, and in contention were Sea, Leta, and Really. Sea's wins were just plain better, in spite of Leta and Really's better ProLeague season records.
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On December 17 2008 21:34 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:23 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:22 Fwmeh wrote:On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) I'd compare Leta to Capablanca =O Very methodical and patient when he know he can win that way. Capablanca was a natural talent, a chess genious who got good with almost pure talent. That's Flash to me, not Leta. Good point. My problem with Flash is that his excellent mechanics often take away from his strategical brilliance (which btw has fluctuated recently) while Leta to my eyes have quite weaker multitasking. Flash can often win through dominating force, Leta almost never does that. For me to give an example, Flash vs Fantasy on Andromeda some time ago. After a somewhat weak start, Flash is suddenly all over Fantasy with beautiful drop play, showing his monstrous multitasking, stomping Fantasy hard. OTOH we have Leta's latest games, all quite passive, Leta not really appearing to be doing much, just gradually solidifying his position. BTW, who would you then concider the Bobby Fischer of SC?
Bobby Fischer = Boxer. why?
Revolutionary strats for the time. Ruy Lopez opening, MnM Micro. Now outdated.
would rather win games their own way than play the conventional way. Fischer on his "royal road" had like a 60 percent win rate, which was unheard of in a game filled with draws. He also was unbeatable when white, kinda like how Boxer was unbeatable at tvz. oh and also: fischer gets a lot of fame/recognition for relatively few championship wins, kinda how Boxer gets all the glory even though there are players with more OSL/MSL titles than him
hopefully boxer doesnt go crazy
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On December 17 2008 21:37 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 21:34 Fwmeh wrote:On December 17 2008 21:23 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:22 Fwmeh wrote:On December 17 2008 21:19 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:17 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:16 Shikyo wrote:On December 17 2008 21:07 d_so wrote:On December 17 2008 21:05 Tianx wrote:On December 17 2008 21:01 d_so wrote:
That did very much look like high-level chess to me. Leta content to slowly improve his position and as soon as Sea tried to bust it open he got punished severely. This. Leta was at no point behind in either game, from start to finish. He secured a small, early advantage and nursed it patiently to the end. The last time I played an expert at chess was fairly similar - I just sort of felt my position falling apart and couldn't do anything whatsoever. It's incredibly demoralizing and Sea just quietly gg'ing probably is representative of how he was feeling. yeah it's like he took a one pawn advantage and rode it all the way to victory You don't even need a pawn. One pawn advantage is huge, it's basically an automatically won game. He got a slight positional advantage in the opening, increased it in the midgame, and in the end his opponent's position was cramped and he had no room to manouver, in which case some chess players can forfeit the match even if the material is similiar. If you want to compare Leta to a chess palyer, I'd consider Anatoli Karpov to be the most accurate comparsion. that's why chess sucks/is boring. Nope, chess is awesome. You just need to understand it. And I prefer players like Kasparov anyway. (UpMagic?) I'd compare Leta to Capablanca =O Very methodical and patient when he know he can win that way. Capablanca was a natural talent, a chess genious who got good with almost pure talent. That's Flash to me, not Leta. Good point. My problem with Flash is that his excellent mechanics often take away from his strategical brilliance (which btw has fluctuated recently) while Leta to my eyes have quite weaker multitasking. Flash can often win through dominating force, Leta almost never does that. For me to give an example, Flash vs Fantasy on Andromeda some time ago. After a somewhat weak start, Flash is suddenly all over Fantasy with beautiful drop play, showing his monstrous multitasking, stomping Fantasy hard. OTOH we have Leta's latest games, all quite passive, Leta not really appearing to be doing much, just gradually solidifying his position. BTW, who would you then concider the Bobby Fischer of SC? Bobby Fischer = Boxer. why? Revolutionary strats for the time. Ruy Lopez opening, MnM Micro. Now outdated. would rather win games their own way than play the conventional way. Fischer on his "royal road" had like a 60 percent win rate, which was unheard of in a game filled with draws. He also was unbeatable when white, kinda like how Boxer was unbeatable at tvz. oh and also: fischer gets a lot of fame/recognition for relatively few championship wins, kinda how Boxer gets all the glory even though there are players with more OSL/MSL titles than him hopefully boxer doesnt go crazy Boxer is Murphy for me. Revolutionized the game and played an entertaining, "low-econ", "cheesy" game.
FakeSteve, I disagree. If some terran is on fire when playing at the top of his game, it is Flash.
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I don't get and probably never will get the Sea hype... He shows some good games once in a while and tons of terrible games all the time. When did this hype start?
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United States10328 Posts
LETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Wow... being the official Power Rank writer is really all about the aftersales department! Go Steve!
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On December 17 2008 23:23 Velr wrote:
I don't get and probably never will get the Sea hype... He shows some good games once in a while and tons of terrible games all the time. When did this hype start?
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