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On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
Are we done with the "balance council" yet? Here is a little secret, a group of random people who don't understand game design won't make a good game. We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. League was writing articles game design and exploding in popularity while they were actively doing the opposite and we watch SC2 tank. We lived through Broodlord Infestor in WOL only to get mass Swarmhosts in HOTS. I wish we could get a serious individual or team that actually follows tenets of modern game design... What is that I hear? Instant burst damage that has no counterplay and is poor design? But Widow Mines are so cool! Imagine getting people who actually understand it to create a game.
The blizzard balance team for sure did mistakes but at least they weren't biased. They broke the game in favor of each of the races at different times, Terran had GomTvT, Hellbat drops and Mass Raven, Zerg had Broodlord Infestor, Broodlord Infestor 2.0 in 2019 and Nydus Swarmhost and Protoss had Blink era and early LotV mass adepts.
The current balance council is pretty clearly biased against Protoss to the point high profile community members have called it out.
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On October 27 2024 23:45 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2024 15:14 TT1 wrote:
some things never change, guys stop investing time into something that's out of your control, simple as that
the game will either get fucked by mass public opinion whining or professional gamer bias (but the root of the issue is having a weak game/devs), if you can't have unbiased high lvl people controlling these things then there's nothing to be done, save some hair and just play BW As it may surprise you, not everyone like BW.
ya that was more of a joke, BW hasn't changed in over 2 decades but it'll still make you lose your hair, the difference is it'll be done by your hands and not someone else's
imo if you have a hobby or profession where the rules of the game are constantly being changed by a 3rd party then you're pretty much guaranteed at some point to not have a good time (regardless of the changes themselves, some of the "knowledge based" portion of the time you spent on that activity is wasted, ofc if bad changes are made it just compounds the tilt effect even more xd)
it's ok to update the structure around a game in order to modernize it (in SC these are mainly maps for example) but the essence/core of any sport/game worth anything is always left untouched (for example adding VAR to soccer/football had a big impact on the game but soccer is still soccer)
the essence/core of a game should be maintained for as long as possible in order to understand it as best as possible (if you can't do this then you have a flawed product), yes sports have rule changes as well but these are done after decades of high lvl competition (and it's usually not stuff that'll change how the game is played)
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Northern Ireland23365 Posts
On October 27 2024 23:43 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 08:17 WombaT wrote:On October 25 2024 08:09 Blitzball04 wrote:On October 25 2024 07:46 WombaT wrote:
WombaT’s PatchTM is great, I won’t hear otherwise!
But in seriousness I think the fundamental idea of a balance council is fine, it just needs some process refinement.
You need some kind of overall arbiter(s) with sufficient knowledge to make final calls, sift the good ideas from the bad etc etc
We’ve got some good ideas, good changes, creative tweaks mixed with some bad ones. Sometimes more good than bad, sometimes more bad than good. Or patches that have stated intentions and a bunch of changes that seemingly contradict the intent.
I don’t think it’s a fundamentally flawed idea, it just needs some figures who can do that filtering
I don’t think you really need more transparency and openness or whatever, just a better internal process Wombat patch is pure trash, it’s time for you to admit it! Protoss got nerfs across the board with nothing to compensate it. Pvt was already struggling the previous patch, but this wombat patch will make it even worse. I wouldn’t be surprise to see the win rate % in the 30’s Given this patch is seemingly awful for Protoss, and my other attempt to force my name into a thing was ‘WombaT’s Law’ which said Protoss couldn’t win a tournament if they had to face more than 2 Zergs in playoff rounds, I feel I’ve been consistent in my traitorous ways! Call me a pessimist or a masochist, or perhaps a realist If I had the job I'd set us back to lair tech and 3 base blink timings. Lotv players would complain, but balance was much better in 2015.
I dunno if it was, I mean in terms of Protoss being competitive it absolutely was, but at times it felt at the expense of enabling quite a lot of Protoss nonsense that I don’t really like
Granted my memory ain’t what it used to be! These 14 years are gradually mashing into one haze
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Czech Republic12126 Posts
I am shocked! SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked.
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Northern Ireland23365 Posts
Reposting from myself off Reddit
The problem with the council is, it doesn’t have a boss, or somebody who can veto or throw things out if bias is obviously in play
Pros were consulted behind the scenes back in the day too, the difference was David Kim was the final arbiter, and both an actual design professional + a decent GM level player.
Pros have a lot to offer in terms of sheer technical knowledge of their chosen game, but making it some democratic process has real obvious downsides, as you’ve pointed out.
I’d propose something like this, obviously not fully-fleshed out but, in vague terms.
1. 7 people become the decision-makers. 2 from each faction, and one rep from either Blizz or ESL to break ties. The players should be either ex pros, or high level players who are commentators, or content creators
2. They set the agenda on patch goals, overall what they’re looking to do.
3. They throw that out to the various pros that want to be on this consultative committee for ideas.
4. Together refine the proposals, and the decision-making committee ultimately just decides what to implement
I don’t think the council should be fully transparent either, unfortunately, put a name to a decision and if people don’t like it you’re getting a ton of shit (see David Kim)
I don’t think this is that hard a problem to solve, indeed I’m shocked with some of these details that are (finally) being leaked in some way because they reveal such an obviously flawed process.
I remember the cyclone change for example, and being confused. The relatively few players who’d openly said they were on that council were absolutely unanimously against it, and made videos to that effect. Heromarine who I assumed was on the council, but was not and I’ve subsequently learned refused to partake due to having issues with its form, also was negative.
A lot makes more sense to me now haha. I’d only ever heard from the kinds of folks I think genuinely are trying for a balanced, fun game. Someone like Harstem, or Lambo. Not always correct, but I don’t really doubt their heart is in the right place.
I’d somewhat assumed the council was filtered for such types based on that sample, but it appears not. And, if you’re one of the people who’s using it to tweak balance to your tastes, or indeed advantage, well you’re that bit less likely to make it known you’re participating
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On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work.
If the WoL and HotS ladders were reinstated, I'd happily play those over LotV.
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On October 28 2024 17:14 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. If the WoL and HotS ladders were reinstated, I'd happily play those over LotV.
No you wouldn't. You'd quit the minute you had to deal with HoTS era Swarm Hosts just like the rest of us would.
I don't think people remember clearly how horrible the meta was at the end of Heart of the Swarm and Wings of Liberty.
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On October 28 2024 18:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2024 17:14 MJG wrote:On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. If the WoL and HotS ladders were reinstated, I'd happily play those over LotV. No you wouldn't. You'd quit the minute you had to deal with HoTS era Swarm Hosts just like the rest of us would.
Being able to do Mothership Core/Gateway pressure against a greedy Zerg to prevent them from over-droning was much more fun to me than anything in the current meta, and I had a very strong anti-Swarm Host follow-up...
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On October 28 2024 18:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2024 17:14 MJG wrote:On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. If the WoL and HotS ladders were reinstated, I'd happily play those over LotV. No you wouldn't. You'd quit the minute you had to deal with HoTS era Swarm Hosts just like the rest of us would. I don't think people remember clearly how horrible the meta was at the end of Heart of the Swarm and Wings of Liberty.
Hmmm I remember having lots of fun during that era. People think of Soulkey vs Reality and Mana vs Firecake but that really were exceptions, the average game wasn't anything like that
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There's also a ginormous difference between GM play and diamond league play. BL/Infestor was never an issue, because nobody controlled spellcasters well enough. The ladder in WoL wasn't full of Zergs winning because BL/Infestor. It was full of Protoss soul training their way to victory.
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Northern Ireland23365 Posts
On October 28 2024 22:29 Acrofales wrote:
There's also a ginormous difference between GM play and diamond league play. BL/Infestor was never an issue, because nobody controlled spellcasters well enough. The ladder in WoL wasn't full of Zergs winning because BL/Infestor. It was full of Protoss soul training their way to victory.
BL/Infestor was still a huge factor, so much so that I switched to Terran for a while
Zerg didn’t have to control their spellcasters all that well, they had instant fungal and if they nailed you, you were fuckkkkkkeed. Another factor versus today is Toss had fewer ways to be active at all on the map outside of committed attacks, nor could you really get your own air ball in time like you can now.
Now I could win, I just had to stop playing like a really shit Liquid HerO, and either blindly Soul TrainTM, or do a +2 blink all in
For some people, winning is all the fun, for others how you do it or what you’re doing is a big component.
I played some of my best SC ever in stubborn attempts to play macro games versus BL/Infestor, usually in losing causes. There’s still a chasm between that low Masters level and GM/pros of course. But I had better results immediately just downloading a few reps, writing the build of a few timings down and practicing a few times and just blindly doing them.
The inverse would also be true for Zergs too of course, the Big Book of Protoss Bullshit brings its own frustration.
I think for many they didn’t think x meta was unbeatable or anything, just unfun to play/watch
I think PvZ is basically doomed to be the worst non-mirror based on how the game is designed, but relative to the past I think the metas of the last year or two have been quite decent. That herO mass gate/mass expand style especially can make for pretty exciting and dynamic matches.
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yeah, we talk about BL/Infestor, but honestly the mirror matches were lightyears worse than ZvP, except, I guess TvT, which was probably a good thing for spectators due to it being the days of GomTvT.
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On October 28 2024 22:29 Acrofales wrote:
There's also a ginormous difference between GM play and diamond league play. BL/Infestor was never an issue, because nobody controlled spellcasters well enough. The ladder in WoL wasn't full of Zergs winning because BL/Infestor. It was full of Protoss soul training their way to victory.
this is actually a really important point, back in WoL when i was giving feedback to the balance team about stuff like BL/inf they'd go and analyze league stats and say that the data didn't show anything wrong with it
i remember mentioning BL/inf some time after they nerfed vortex (mothership) when it was clear that it had a big impact on the MU, P started doing stuff like soul train (literally almost every game) and 3 base colo allins (but eventually good z's optimized a double evo ling/inf opener into corruptor/bl after scouting P going early 3rd, which destroyed 3b colo)
problem is they were looking at stats from diamond or master league upwards (i don't remember exactly if it was diamond or master) whereas the feedback i was giving was from playing top players (mainly Suppy/Scarlett were doing this ling inf into corru/bl bo vs non soul train builds), i wouldn't be surprised that they eventually realized the non relevance of lower level data due to execution flaws/unoptimized b.os which probably lead to giving more emphasis to pro player feedback
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i am happy with the balance council. i'm a diamond 1v1 player and a diamond 2v2 player who plays with a 1v1 gold leaguer. i play ~6 months a year.
i think most diamond and gold leaguers have enjoyed the game the last few years. we face very little online toxicity from opponents. when i chat with my opponents they rarely get angry.
On October 28 2024 03:05 TT1 wrote:
imo if you have a hobby or profession where the rules of the game are constantly being changed by a 3rd party then you're pretty much guaranteed at some point to not have a good time (regardless of the changes themselves, some of the "knowledge based" portion of the time you spent on that activity is wasted, ofc if bad changes are made it just compounds the tilt effect even more xd)
NHL and NBA players have dealt with this a lot. The 3 point line in the NBA was considered a silly gimmick with the NBA reluctantly adding it. It turned out to be an awesome way to space the floor and now its 'obvious' it was a good rule change.
The NHL has eliminated the center red line and it worked out great.
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On October 29 2024 03:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:i am happy with the balance council. i'm a diamond 1v1 player and a diamond 2v2 player who plays with a 1v1 gold leaguer. i play ~6 months a year. i think most diamond and gold leaguers have enjoyed the game the last few years. we face very little online toxicity from opponents. when i chat with my opponents they rarely get angry. Show nested quote +On October 28 2024 03:05 TT1 wrote:
imo if you have a hobby or profession where the rules of the game are constantly being changed by a 3rd party then you're pretty much guaranteed at some point to not have a good time (regardless of the changes themselves, some of the "knowledge based" portion of the time you spent on that activity is wasted, ofc if bad changes are made it just compounds the tilt effect even more xd)
NHL and NBA players have dealt with this a lot. The 3 point line in the NBA was considered a silly gimmick with the NBA reluctantly adding it. It turned out to be an awesome way to space the floor and now its 'obvious' it was a good rule change. The NHL has eliminated the center red line and it worked out great.
well you named 2 big changes yes but that's pretty much it (i dunno much about basketball but i follow hockey), each of those sports have been around for a very long time
the NHL actually does do a lot minor changes (mainly to streamline the game more) like no touch icing (so dmen don't get injured), no line change after icing etc.. those aren't really core changes tho (as opposed to the stuff you mentioned)
EDIT: actually the NHL made a bunch of important overtime changes too, that's what they've tweaked with the most in modern times (point changes/going from 5 on 5 to 4 on 4 to 3 on 3/adding shootout)
but ya those were changes outside of regulation time to make the game more entertaining in order to attract more viewers imo (hockey isn't as popular as the other mainstream sports so they mess around more than the others)
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United States1782 Posts
On October 28 2024 18:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2024 17:14 MJG wrote:On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. If the WoL and HotS ladders were reinstated, I'd happily play those over LotV. No you wouldn't. You'd quit the minute you had to deal with HoTS era Swarm Hosts just like the rest of us would. I don't think people remember clearly how horrible the meta was at the end of Heart of the Swarm and Wings of Liberty.
How quickly people forget that the SH meta didn't exist in 2015.
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Giving the most winning players the loudest voice seems to be a way to ensure cyclical results -- positive feedback loop, rich get richer. A vague idea would be to do it like they do drafts in US professional sports, where the worst teams get the first picks -- the race that has done the least winning lately should get the loudest voice.
Obviously this is a SUPER half-baked idea since balance changes are far less straightforward than picking prospects, but I think there's a little something to it.
Balancing the game, especially at the highest level, is tricky, and I do think top players being included is a good choice, because at the pro level there are things that happen where just a player or two can require a patch -- ByuN's reaper patch (were there multiple) is the most famous example because he was running through the highest level with a build literally only he could pull off (Maru, at his quickest at the time, tried the 3-rax reaper and even he couldn't make it work), and we saw the infestor burrow get nerfed recently due in no small part to what basically only Serral was doing.
And when we're basing balance on tournament wins, that makes it even crazier because how many guys are realistically in the mix to win major tournaments? A dozen? Less? Off the top of my head, I would say anyone but these guys winning a big tournament would be relatively stunning:
1) Serral
2) Clem
3) Maru
4) Dark
5) herO
6) Reynor
I mean, it was even pretty shocking when Solar won GSL, and that tournament didn't have Serral. Rogue could be back in that mix soon, and poor Cure is always knocking on the door, but if you gave me those 6 players vs. the field for every Premier tournament this year I'd be pretty confident. Plus one of the two best Protoss players in the world doesn't play tournaments because he may or may not be AlphaStar's smurf account.
So you want top players, but then those players are going to ask for changes that will help them stay on top -- it's a tough situation. Plus it's the definition of a thankless job -- people seem much more eager to talk about bad balance than good balance, ya know?
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On October 28 2024 02:37 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2024 09:34 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 23 2024 12:20 luxon wrote:
- Enormous conflicts of interest - pros are vouching for things that not only benefit their race, but their own playstyle
- Politics and negotiations - if your race has more passive person championing the changes, then you will lose out to others who are more aggressive. The people unwilling to compromise are rewarded.
- There is an unnamed top-level Terran who is given extreme credence to his opinions (HM has publicly said he refuses to join because of such conflict of interest, so not sure who. Clem makes sense but doesnt strike me as the type, possibly Maru or Spirit).
- Lower level pro's opinions are disregarded in favor of higher level ones, even when they bring "facts and replay evidence"
- The person who is in charge of the actual balance patch changes ("the referee" in the video) has a noticeable bias against protoss, which was noticed by both Dns and Showtime.
Are we done with the "balance council" yet? Here is a little secret, a group of random people who don't understand game design won't make a good game. We tried it. We had Dustin "Warhound" Browder, and David "Mothership Core" Kim clowning around in WOL and HOTS and it didn't work. League was writing articles game design and exploding in popularity while they were actively doing the opposite and we watch SC2 tank. We lived through Broodlord Infestor in WOL only to get mass Swarmhosts in HOTS. I wish we could get a serious individual or team that actually follows tenets of modern game design... What is that I hear? Instant burst damage that has no counterplay and is poor design? But Widow Mines are so cool! Imagine getting people who actually understand it to create a game. The blizzard balance team for sure did mistakes but at least they weren't biased. They broke the game in favor of each of the races at different times, Terran had GomTvT, Hellbat drops and Mass Raven, Zerg had Broodlord Infestor, Broodlord Infestor 2.0 in 2019 and Nydus Swarmhost and Protoss had Blink era and early LotV mass adepts. The current balance council is pretty clearly biased against Protoss to the point high profile community members have called it out.
I think this is also a huge part of it. If the blizzard balance team broke the game or over tuned something you didn't feel like they had a vested interest in pushing through certain changes.
Even if this is not the case currently the optics of it are just worse. So imo unless the patches are god tier everytime there is going to be the accusations of bias.
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On October 28 2024 11:40 WombaT wrote:
The problem with the council is, it doesn’t have a boss, or somebody who can veto or throw things out if bias is obviously in play
Pros were consulted behind the scenes back in the day too, the difference was David Kim was the final arbiter, and both an actual design professional + a decent GM level player.
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Pros have a lot to offer in terms of sheer technical knowledge of their chosen game, but making it some democratic process has real obvious downsides, as you’ve pointed out.
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I don’t think the council should be fully transparent either, unfortunately, put a name to a decision and if people don’t like it you’re getting a ton of shit (see David Kim)
Avilo 'as a joke' bashed to pieces a stuffed animal representation of David Kim on so many occasions that I believe it warranted a full criminal investigation. When you 'joke' about violence 1000 times it is no longer a joke. It morphs into a veiled threat.
Personally, I think he deserved a weekend in jail along with a promise to stop the "jokes".
I commend the work of the balance council. It is sad they do not have the backing of a massive megacorp as David Kim did.
IMO, Browder, Kim, the guy replacing Kim, and the balance council have done a nice job over 14 years.
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Northern Ireland23365 Posts
On October 30 2024 00:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2024 11:40 WombaT wrote:
The problem with the council is, it doesn’t have a boss, or somebody who can veto or throw things out if bias is obviously in play
Pros were consulted behind the scenes back in the day too, the difference was David Kim was the final arbiter, and both an actual design professional + a decent GM level player.
...
Pros have a lot to offer in terms of sheer technical knowledge of their chosen game, but making it some democratic process has real obvious downsides, as you’ve pointed out.
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I don’t think the council should be fully transparent either, unfortunately, put a name to a decision and if people don’t like it you’re getting a ton of shit (see David Kim) Avilo 'as a joke' bashed to pieces a stuffed animal representation of David Kim on so many occasions that I believe it warranted a full criminal investigation. When you 'joke' about violence 1000 times it is no longer a joke. It morphs into a veiled threat. Personally, I think he deserved a weekend in jail along with a promise to stop the "jokes". I commend the work of the balance council. It is sad they do not have the backing of a massive megacorp as David Kim did. IMO, Browder, Kim, the guy replacing Kim, and the balance council have done a nice job over 14 years.
Yeah I think people are going a bit over the top on this one, although I do think there’s some procedural flaws
I think Avilo needs some time in a psychiatric institution rather than jail, but yeah some of his behaviour is just completely unacceptable
It’s not been perfect at various junctures, end of the day I’ve either played or followed tournaments of this game, interacted with communities on the regular for 14 years. I’ve founded a local scene/hub, run like 15 tournaments in LAN form
Ya can’t really do that if you don’t have a compelling game that’s largely been decently managed
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EPT
