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WombaT
Northern Ireland22765 Posts
On September 18 2024 02:41 Cyro wrote: Guy in your second link is a full blown neo-nazi, don't give him the views Yeah Matt Walsh absolutely sucks in basically every possible way. The whole talking point is daft anyway. We don’t give wages commensurate to how hard people work, otherwise wage profiles look rather different across the board. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20262 Posts
Performance-related Change Maximum Supply cap in Co-op for all factions has decreased from 300 to 200. We are exploring the impact of this change in addition to the technical work we are doing to address overall performance. That's equivelant to around a 130 supply cap in SC2. Something has to give, but i don't think that choice is going to be very popular. People are much more attached to their army sizes than to player count (3p vs 2p), tick rate, rollback etc. If people honestly understood that going 3-player co-op instead of 2-player would cut their performance in half or they'd have to give up 1/3'rd of their supply, who would go for it? I would imagine that 2-player was more popular even without that, but it's gotta be a landslide in that context. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8967 Posts
Full content and patch notes are out^^ Overall seems like a positive change in every direction. The major complaints (pathing, visuals, hotkeys, dogs, performance) are all touched on. Can't really complain here, even though there's still a lot of work to do in all those areas. The new custom map seems interesting as well. It's the kind of thing people would make in the editor anyway but it's cool to see already. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8967 Posts
On September 18 2024 07:04 Cyro wrote: That's equivelant to around a 130 supply cap in SC2. Something has to give, but i don't think that choice is going to be very popular. People are much more attached to their army sizes than to player count (3p vs 2p), tick rate, rollback etc. If people honestly understood that going 3-player co-op instead of 2-player would cut their performance in half or they'd have to give up 1/3'rd of their supply, who would go for it? I would imagine that 2-player was more popular even without that, but it's gotta be a landslide in that context. If we're being honest. Stormgate co-op performs much much worse than SC2 with 3, 4 etc players on the board. Even the outrageous unit counts of some of the sc2 coop commanders. They spoke originally of an engine that can handle thousands of units on the field at once right? That seems like it won't happen at this point. And I doubt anyone cares about 64 tick, people would rather have a big army and play with friends. | ||
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moomin22
26 Posts
Funded until release 1000s of units Social RTS Community focus | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22765 Posts
On September 18 2024 09:23 moomin22 wrote: What frost giant say to get your money vs what they can deliver are two very different things. Funded until release 1000s of units Social RTS Community focus For all the janky state of these early builds, I think that mismatch you mention is just as big a cause, if not bigger It’s one thing to not have faith in the product as it is, quite another to start to lose faith in the people building it. It’s all well and good doing nice-sounding interviews but they’re as softball as it gets. So we simultaneously have Tim Morten or whoever able to do these longish sit down pow-wows, but nobody in the company felt able to send a response when asked for comment when that German site asked them around the whole Warz fiasco Which they definitely saw because they edited the Kickstarter terms. Perhaps I’m extrapolating my own personal feelings out to a more widely held sentiment and am a bit off the mark as to the latter. But I went from early excitement, thru cautious optimism into primarily pessimistic, a process that is well documented by my interjections into this thread. And it’s mostly not about the game itself, least for me. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
102 Posts
On September 18 2024 07:04 Cyro wrote: That's equivelant to around a 130 supply cap in SC2. Something has to give, but i don't think that choice is going to be very popular. People are much more attached to their army sizes than to player count (3p vs 2p), tick rate, rollback etc. If people honestly understood that going 3-player co-op instead of 2-player would cut their performance in half or they'd have to give up 1/3'rd of their supply, who would go for it? I would imagine that 2-player was more popular even without that, but it's gotta be a landslide in that context. What a desperate move, FGS kinda agrees passively that performance is not easy to find. Having comic graphics and not even managing to field SC2 like numbers of units. The copium levels will rise skyhigh. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8967 Posts
On September 18 2024 09:23 moomin22 wrote: What frost giant say to get your money vs what they can deliver are two very different things. Funded until release 1000s of units Social RTS Community focus To give them some credit. From what I understand, they have the reserves until 1.0. As for social rts, that's something that should develop as the UI does. I imagine it's end of the pipeline once the game is good. Community focus seems fine? They promote 3rd party tournaments and content creators and are very active in their discord. 1000s of units looks like it will never happen baring some serious redoing of the groundwork. The real pain of that effects custom maps. I can't imagine anyone doing footman frenzy or marine arena in this engine without their PC melting. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey346 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16128 Posts
On September 18 2024 22:03 gingeuffmuffnr2 wrote: to What a desperate move, FGS kinda agrees passively that performance is not easy to find. Having comic graphics and not even managing to field SC2 like numbers of units. The copium levels will rise skyhigh. They are doing the best they can man. I Think Mr. Campbell is correct about the studio working very hard. It is of course impossible to know with 100% certainty if most people are working hard. However, I think most are working very hard. They are auditioning for their next job As stated in the vid I posted... the last thing you want to do is sit around doing nothing for months losing whatever highly tuned skills you have. There are ~300 people playing Stormgate on Steam. This will not sustain ~60 full timers with many living in the most expensive parts of the USA. Anyhow, at least FG is making a product. So many studios like Bonfire just soak up investor cash and make nothing. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8967 Posts
On September 19 2024 01:34 _Spartak_ wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1KQfrEjsuI Absolutely all good changes (assuming they don't make performance worse or cause unexpected issues). In just over a month then game looks so much better, if it keeps at that pace for another year it could be something really special. The idea that Frost Giant employees aren't working hard is insane. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1150 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16128 Posts
On September 19 2024 07:35 CicadaSC wrote: Graphics don't look that different to me, balance changes seem good at a glance but I'm worried how the dog nerfs were targeted at vs Vanguard and Infernal when they were so common and oppressive to play against as celestial because they counter argent. I'll be interested to see how the meta develops I hope we get a more fleshed out game. Also I would like to see more interactive T3 units so we don't get a stalemate late game. i wish they'd give a faction the equivalent of the Soviet Warbear from Red Alert 3. The Bear//Dog battles were a lot of fun... effective use of scouts offered a small but not insurmountable advantage. Here is a good example of that. The action starts at 55 seconds. Greg Black was a big part of making Red Alert 3. I think he is a very good game designer. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
102 Posts
On September 19 2024 02:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote: You dont get my point. Lowering unit counts is the worst you can do. The implications are really serious. You wanted thousands of units with your fancy, super expensive custom network hack, yet the game struggles with hundreds. So what does SG do better than any RTS from the last 20yrs? When the tech doesnt stand out, what is even left? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22765 Posts
On September 19 2024 18:22 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: You dont get my point. Lowering unit counts is the worst you can do. The implications are really serious. You wanted thousands of units with your fancy, super expensive custom network hack, yet the game struggles with hundreds. So what does SG do better than any RTS from the last 20yrs? When the tech doesnt stand out, what is even left? Despite appearances from recent posts I’ve no interest in shitting on the game Consider this though, would it be a popular SC2 mod? I’d wager no. It might garner something like Starbow’s support, and I don’t mean to denigrate Starbow, it’s a cool mod. But it’s a mod made by like one bloke Obviously not every game is a DoTA, but that core central idea was so solid that it garnered a huge folllowing as a pure mod that just reused WC3 assets If your core gameplay isn’t compelling enough to stand on its own merits as a mod in another game, well your tech innovations better be bloody good So far we have worse pathing than SC2, performance that’s crippling on many systems Deadlock is knocking it out of the park currently and it’s clearly bare bones, using recycled assets etc Hey I was exited about the prospect of an ambitious RTS game following the Blizz blueprint, if someone nailed that hey I’m not playing much else until my 40s at least. Which is less far off than I’d like! They just haven’t nailed it, remotely. I find SC2 frustrating at times in 1v1, I’m getting slow in my old age. For a change of pace, the other title they took inspiration from in WC3 is just far, far better if you want a less macro heavy game Co-op isn’t even close either. My son and partner are both basically complete RTS newbies, indeed my partner barely plays games but we’ve had fun doing 3v3 co-op. I have to carry a bit but they enjoy the flavour and even through a minuscule amount of games they have heroes and styles they like Stormgate just doesn’t hit the mark. I was actually excited on the EA release, me and kiddo tried some co-op and he requested we go back to SC2 saying ‘this game is really like SC2 but not as fun’ Hey, from the mouths of babes | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
102 Posts
On September 19 2024 20:09 WombaT wrote: Damn, how cool is that playing with the family as a team. May that never change! | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16128 Posts
On September 19 2024 20:09 WombaT wrote: Despite appearances from recent posts I’ve no interest in shitting on the game Frost Giant engaged in a great deal of "puffery" during the Kickstarter phase. This leads to angry disappointed players. Morten and Campbell are old enough to know this basic behaviour pattern. Game Studios funding via Kickstarter follow this pattern. I wonder how the StartEngine backers are feeling? "All in all you're just another brick in the Wall...the Wall" On September 19 2024 18:22 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: You dont get my point. Lowering unit counts is the worst you can do. The implications are really serious. You wanted thousands of units with your fancy, super expensive custom network hack, yet the game struggles with hundreds. So what does SG do better than any RTS from the last 20yrs? When the tech doesnt stand out, what is even left? Perhaps you intended to quote someone else? My suggestion of adding Soviet Warbears would prolly increase unit counts. Man, the old days of Dog V. Bear battles were good times! | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey346 Posts
MaNA is streaming: https://www.twitch.tv/liquidmana | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2761 Posts
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_Spartak_
Turkey346 Posts
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