EPT[WTL 2024] Summer - Playoffs - Page 7
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darklycid
3358 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:01 dysenterymd wrote: I don't think it's that odd. Serral has the best decision making/reactions in the business, but isn't the absolute fastest player in the world. So Clem can outplay Serral in a way that Clem can't outplay Reynor, while Reynor's somewhat worse decision making has him headbutt into Maru while Serral picks his fights well and wins. Aye that makes sense in terms of relative H2Hs for sure The curiosity for me isn’t that Maru has a bad record, he seemingly can’t beat Serral at all for the last wee while | ||
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sudete
Singapore3052 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15829 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:05 WombaT wrote: Aye that makes sense in terms of relative H2Hs for sure The curiosity for me isn’t that Maru has a bad record, he seemingly can’t beat Serral at all for the last wee while At this point I think Serral is just in Marus head, there's no way this is the best he's capable of in the matchup. In general, Maru seems like a player with a rather weak mindset who tilts easily if he isn't confident, as we have seen time and time again against sOs, Rogue, Oliveira and others | ||
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tigera6
3183 Posts
As for the question of Maru vs Serral, Maru TvZ has taken a hit lately, thats not just against Serral but also against Dark and he didnt look dominant against lesser Zerg neither. Soo could have beaten him in GSL recently as well iirc. He seems to be playing the "campaign" mode where he will do the exact same thing over and over, with little variation and just trying to win the game in one-way. Meanwhile Serral can just throw whatever he want against Maru because he knew Maru aint changing his own plan, down to the timing and build order. | ||
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dysenterymd
1157 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:07 Charoisaur wrote: At this point I think Serral is just in Marus head, there's no way this is the best he's capable of in the matchup. In general, Maru seems like a player with a rather weak mindset who tilts easily if he isn't confident, as we have seen time and time again against sOs, Rogue and others Yeah there's definitely a mental component too. Serral matches up well with Maru stylistically, but Serral being 13-1 vs Maru from Katowice onwards is just insane and doesn't really reflect how their series "should" go. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17582 Posts
I prefer a team effort like the proleague format | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1075 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:05 WombaT wrote: Aye that makes sense in terms of relative H2Hs for sure The curiosity for me isn’t that Maru has a bad record, he seemingly can’t beat Serral at all for the last wee while To add another point, I think Serral and Clem are in a constant cycle of developing their matchup against each other. Clem had the upper hand at the end of 2023, then Serral reworked his ZvT and was ahead the first half of 2024, and now Clem has the answer to Serral's current style once again. But in Serral vs. Maru, it's only Serral who is evolving. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:07 Charoisaur wrote: At this point I think Serral is just in Marus head, there's no way this is the best he's capable of in the matchup. In general, Maru seems like a player with a rather weak mindset who tilts easily if he isn't confident, as we have seen time and time again against sOs, Rogue, Oliveira and others I dunno if his mindset is weak, he’s pulled a lot out of the fire over the years too. I think he has tended to succeed at this level simply by being better at StarCraft than other players. When he isn’t, maybe he struggles to figure it out | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15829 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:13 WombaT wrote: I dunno if his mindset is weak, he’s pulled a lot out of the fire over the years too. I think he has tended to succeed at this level simply by being better at StarCraft than other players. When he isn’t, maybe he struggles to figure it out I'm a huge Maru fan but he's had more mental collapses than any other player at the top of sc2. Maybe calling his mentality "weak" is too harsh but it's definitely the #1 factor holding him back imo. In terms of skill he's second to none bar maybe Serral, that's why he has still been able to win so many tournaments | ||
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sudete
Singapore3052 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:05 WombaT wrote: Aye that makes sense in terms of relative H2Hs for sure The curiosity for me isn’t that Maru has a bad record, he seemingly can’t beat Serral at all for the last wee while I mean, it's pretty clear if you actually watch the games... Maru does literally the same exact builds 5-6 times in a row. Serral doesn't even have to scout particularly well, he just needs to identify how soon he needs to go hive 90% of the time it's 3cc hellion banshee then early 4th base 2nd factory 10% of the time when he tries something "different", it's just a straight up 8 rax and die just after 2-2... There's no in between, even if it's suboptimal or off meta No consideration of hitting an awkward timing or going for a different all-in once in a while Serral just figure out which one of the two things he is doing, and then he knows how many drones to build and how to cut corners. So he builds a lead for himself just off that, and the late game needs to be obscenely lopsided for maru to even stand a chance e.g. when serral took 20 bad trades in a row and dropped a map in EWC Cure decided to proxy 3 rax and won a map. Oliveira was messing around with some slightly different 8 rax recently and took maps. Clem has been winning maps left and right, although he is clearly just faster at this point Maru's plans are just extremely predictable for someone like Serral, simple as that. And Maru doesn't see it within him to change his plans or to give himself a better chance of winning. I'm not saying he should do dumb hellbat marauder builds that don't work or other meme builds, but he should probably stop sentencing himself to death every single game. 10% chance of winning is better than 0%. But it looks like he just doesn't understand why players who are arguably inferior to him can win maps against serral while he is just struggling to even win one | ||
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tigera6
3183 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:13 WombaT wrote: I dunno if his mindset is weak, he’s pulled a lot out of the fire over the years too. I think he has tended to succeed at this level simply by being better at StarCraft than other players. When he isn’t, maybe he struggles to figure it out Imo, hes just not mixing it up enough in TvZ. He hasnt played anything new outside of the most standard 3CC Bio Tank into Ghost forever. In IEM he showed a good build with the pre-nerfed Cyclone and looking good with it, could have beaten Serral if he could stop the ling run-by. But he hasnt done any Mech, Proxy, 2-3 base timing that can throw the opponent out of the rhythm. I thought he could have something up his sleeve for the EWC but nope, just the same old build and hoping to survive into lategame. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:09 Die4Ever wrote: this is the problem with the all kill format lol I prefer a team effort like the proleague format Yeah, I'd like more of a hybrid format at least. GG Basilisk and Serral! | ||
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darklycid
3358 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3052 Posts
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dysenterymd
1157 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23371 Posts
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Blitzball04
125 Posts
On September 02 2024 02:46 darklycid wrote: Idk im starting to dread serral vs maru at this point, it usually aint even a good series anymore. Maru was never a rival to Serral. Serral has been dominating Maru for years now. It’s all hype with no real substance Serral true rivals has always been reynor and Clem. | ||
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VladSlymor
80 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:25 dysenterymd wrote: Curious who gets playoffs MVP, I think Clem, Reynor, and Serral all have claims to it (even though Reynor "only" went 5-3 taking out Clem was vital.) Based on last year, it seems to be heavily driven by the final match so I'd guess Serral. Though personally I fully agree that Clem and Reynor have a strong claim. | ||
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tigera6
3183 Posts
On September 02 2024 03:18 sudete wrote: I mean, it's pretty clear if you actually watch the games... Maru does literally the same exact builds 5-6 times in a row. Serral doesn't even have to scout particularly well, he just needs to identify how soon he needs to go hive 90% of the time it's 3cc hellion banshee then early 4th base 2nd factory 10% of the time when he tries something "different", it's just a straight up 8 rax and die just after 2-2... There's no in between, even if it's suboptimal or off meta No consideration of hitting an awkward timing or going for a different all-in once in a while Serral just figure out which one of the two things he is doing, and then he knows how many drones to build and how to cut corners. So he builds a lead for himself just off that, and the late game needs to be obscenely lopsided for maru to even stand a chance e.g. when serral took 20 bad trades in a row and dropped a map in EWC Cure decided to proxy 3 rax and won a map. Oliveira was messing around with some slightly different 8 rax recently and took maps. Clem has been winning maps left and right, although he is clearly just faster at this point Maru's plans are just extremely predictable for someone like Serral, simple as that. And Maru doesn't see it within him to change his plans or to give himself a better chance of winning. I'm not saying he should do dumb hellbat marauder builds that don't work or other meme builds, but he should probably stop sentencing himself to death every single game. 10% chance of winning is better than 0%. But it looks like he just doesn't understand why players who are arguably inferior to him can win maps against serral while he is just struggling to even win one Serral these days try to play a lower econ but packing a bigger punch in the army supply, and Maru style of massing out worker while going for early 4th CC and double upgrade is just terrible against that. And when I watch the replay, most of the time when Serral hit, Maru was not even at max supply, he was keeping it to transition into higher tech, and completely oblivious to the incoming hit. Like I said, the guy just plays it like a single campaign mission and not prepping at all for who he plays against. Look to me he doesnt give a damn anymore, and just try to see how far he can get while making some money. | ||
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