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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On July 16 2017 10:43 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Campaign money straight into Trump org pocket? Trump is getting reimbursed for a lot of different things. From costs of having run the campaign in the first place to cost of secret service bodyguards having to fly next to him in a plane when he goes somewhere and that results in them paying Trump org. I guess legal fees belong into that group as well now | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On July 16 2017 10:57 Toadesstern wrote: Trump is getting reimbursed for a lot of different things. From costs of having run the campaign in the first place to cost of secret service bodyguards having to fly next to him in a plane when he goes somewhere and that results in them paying Trump org. I guess legal fees belong into that group as well now No one gets to complain about Corruption and Money in Politics until they first identify the greatest offender of all time: Trump. No one even comes close to finding ways to moving other people's money into his own pockets using Politics. His personal Corruption is without precedent in USA history. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
McCain to remain in Arizona as Senate moves toward healthcare vote WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Senator John McCain will remain in Arizona next week to recover from surgery, just as the Senate prepares for a crucial vote on healthcare legislation that could hinge on a single "no" vote. McCain had a procedure that removed a 2-inch (5-cm) blood clot above his left eye, his office announced in a statement on Saturday. "On the advice of his doctors, Senator McCain will be recovering in Arizona next week," it said. It was unclear how McCain's absence might affect Senate Republican plans to vote next week on legislation to dismantle and replace Obamacare. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell needs 50 "yes" votes for passage in a chamber that the Republicans control by a 52-48 margin. [...] source: www.reuters.com with 2 no's from republican and one not being there that'd leave them with 49 if I understand this correctly? I highly doubt anyone thought it's going to pass but noone wanted to be the one that swings the vote so I'm just going to assume this is for the sole purpose of saving face | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On July 16 2017 09:07 Garbels wrote: This is only remarkable because the question is so stupid. How could he be 100% sure? Ask that question about any other presidents, you could easily be 100% sure that's whats remarkable that you could question the president's integrity to america. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13627 Posts
On July 16 2017 11:33 Toadesstern wrote: source: www.reuters.com with 2 no's from republican and one not being there that'd leave them with 49 if I understand this correctly? I highly doubt anyone thought it's going to pass but noone wanted to be the one that swings the vote so I'm just going to assume this is for the sole purpose of saving face If the democrats were on the ball they'd have an ad ready to run in Arizona about how much his procedure would cost someone under the republican health care plan. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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KwarK
United States41470 Posts
On July 16 2017 11:33 Toadesstern wrote: source: www.reuters.com with 2 no's from republican and one not being there that'd leave them with 49 if I understand this correctly? I highly doubt anyone thought it's going to pass but noone wanted to be the one that swings the vote so I'm just going to assume this is for the sole purpose of saving face In British Parliamentary politics in this situation the whip of one party would speak to the whip of another and arrange for a "no" vote to sit out to even it out. If it's clear they'll wheel in someone from hospital if they have to then you don't need to force them to do it just to be a dick. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13627 Posts
On July 16 2017 13:43 KwarK wrote: In British Parliamentary politics in this situation the whip of one party would speak to the whip of another and arrange for a "no" vote to sit out to even it out. If it's clear they'll wheel in someone from hospital if they have to then you don't need to force them to do it just to be a dick. Do people break down demographics and more random stastictics for parliment members like they do for congress seats? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22322 Posts
On July 16 2017 11:09 Wulfey_LA wrote: No one gets to complain about Corruption and Money in Politics until they first identify the greatest offender of all time: Trump. No one even comes close to finding ways to moving other people's money into his own pockets using Politics. His personal Corruption is without precedent in USA history. No one should comment on corruption and money in politics until they also acknowledge what Trump's doing isn't new, it's just more flagrant and poorly executed. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 16 2017 14:07 GreenHorizons wrote: No one should comment on corruption and money in politics until they also acknowledge what Trump's doing isn't new, it's just more flagrant and poorly executed. At least in most cases, politicians are below the incomes that they the qualifications/connections for, even when you factor in all the benefits and expenses and "bribery". Which says more about corporate and legal income bloat than anything else, but still. In Trump's case, at best he's trying to maintain his billionaire lifestyle and income while in the White House. At worst, he's trying to get the fortune he claimed to have. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7760 Posts
On July 16 2017 14:44 Buckyman wrote: Of the top 10 Greatest Offenders of All Time, I would be surprised if any were American presidents. We're not authoritarian enough for proper all-out kleptocracy. Actually i remember reading that Putin is probably the most corrupt leader in the world's history if you consider corruption unlegitimate personal gains while in power. He could very well today be the richest man in the world while he had virtually nothing arriving in power. A Kremlin defector claimed he was worth 200 billion dollars. Trump is a walking conflict of interest and is clearly shaping the US foreign policy depending on where his buildings are located (and is probably too dumb to see where the problem even is) but if you want corruption at a really terrifying level, Russia is there for you. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7760 Posts
On July 16 2017 14:07 GreenHorizons wrote: No one should comment on corruption and money in politics until they also acknowledge what Trump's doing isn't new, it's just more flagrant and poorly executed. I don't think Obama took a single decision that was influenced by the perspective of personnal finantial gain. It seems to be shaping literally every single move Trump is doing, including his FP. How us that not new?! Yes american politics is rotten by money. But pretending this is business as usual just a bit more visible is factually wrong even though I know this fits wonderfully your narrative. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On July 16 2017 16:17 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't think Obama took a single decision that was influenced by the perspective of personnal finantial gain. It seems to be shaping literally every single move Trump is doing, including his FP. How us that not new?! If you think the Obama administration didn't do anything because of bribery ("donations") then you're horribly naive. If you think the military industrial complex didn't impact Obama's foreign policy then you're horribly naive. Maybe Obama didn't get direct personal financial gain, idk, but he sure as hell played the pay-for-power game which allows business to undemocratically control governments. And of course being ex-president he now can flagrantly use his contacts and position to earn money, which honestly is about the same, just a little smarter. Politics in general is horribly corrupt. America is particularly awful for a developed nation. If you don't think companies are constantly buying power then I have to wonder what you think they're doing donating money to campaigns. Every presidential candidate and almost every other politician has to sell themselves to get even a shot (Sanders claimed not - dunno how true that is, but at any rate even he would have had to work with others, all of whom will have sold themselves multiple times) so all of them are making bought decisions, whether they benefit directly financially or through gaining power. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7760 Posts
On July 16 2017 19:27 FuzzyJAM wrote: If you think the Obama administration didn't do anything because of bribery ("donations") then you're horribly naive. If you think the military industrial complex didn't impact Obama's foreign policy then you're horribly naive. Maybe Obama didn't get direct personal financial gain, idk, but he sure as hell played the pay-for-power game which allows business to undemocratically control governments. And of course being ex-president he now can flagrantly use his contacts and position to earn money, which honestly is about the same, just a little smarter. I love the cynicism, but I don't think you can compare an administration ran by a billionaire who clearly is there to promote his business interest and takes a foreign policy approach directly related to where his buildings and golf course are located and the Obama administration, which was certainly "corrupt" to a certain level as this is structural to american politics but was not ran by people who had direct private financial interest in what they were doing. Obama is no billionaire, and was certainly not there primarily to make money. Or if so, he was really shit at it. It's good not to be naive and to be critical, but that's not a reason to become blind. This shit, at that level, is unprecedented. | ||
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oBlade
Korea (South)4990 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7760 Posts
On July 16 2017 19:44 oBlade wrote: You keep saying "clearly" and "literally every single," can you be specific with an example of what you're talking about? Sure, I'd be very happy to oblige. In fact I tried to copy paste the article, but the list is so freaking long TL wouldn't let me do it. Apparently you can't have more than 100K character in a post. That's a pity. So here you go, enjoy the reading. Make a coffee before, it will take a while. Can I keep using "clearly" and "literally every single" or do you want more of those? And for people who say that it's business as usual (GH, I'm talking to you), I challenge you to read the thing, and fond me anything comparable in terms of density and seriousness of those conflicts of interests in the 8 years of the Obama presidency. | ||
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farvacola
United States18811 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7760 Posts
On July 16 2017 20:03 farvacola wrote: It's funny to see someone ask Biff to qualify his somewhat sweeping language directly following a post that paints literally every politician in existence with the same brush. Not that I want to justify myself, I am abrasive at time and not always the most open to different realities, but the situation of Trump's conflicts of interest is quite sweeping itself. I'm all for general critics of american politics, but this shit is unprecedented. The guy makes his first phone calls to foreign leaders as POTUS to talk about his buildings. It should be absolutely unthinkable. The one conservative poster who has been able to put his narrow partisanship aside and say "the shit is crazy, it's outrageous", namely biologymajor has earned my eternal respect. If you want to understand why the country is in such bad shape, look at the attitude of conservative voters here. Until Trump has nuked the planet, they will keep defending him, no matter how fucking horrifying he is (not) doing his job and no matter the extent of the scandals that surround him. Democracy works when the power is held accountable by the citizens. Including the ones from its side. I am yet to hear xDaunt and Danglar say "well this meeting with Don jr is really, really fucked up" or "those conflicts of interest are a real problem". But that ain't gonna happen in this world or the next. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4302 Posts
On July 16 2017 16:17 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't think Obama took a single decision that was influenced by the perspective of personnal finantial gain. It seems to be shaping literally every single move Trump is doing, including his FP. How us that not new?! I'm sure if Barry played his cards right he could be earning big bucks on the speaking circuit like the Clintons did.Just focus on legalising gay marriage, being the first black president and other feels.Avoid talking about his war record, the auto/bank bailouts or fracking increasing exponentially under his watch while the EPA ignored the dire environmental issues arising from that. While Obama liked to hide behind environmental reasons for not allowing the Keystone pipeline the real reason was that major democrat donor and left wing billionaire Warren Buffet bought a train line that ran oil from North Dakota.Read for yourself but all this is pretty well known.To suggest that Obama was clean of cronyism is pretty laughable and i hope no-one is suggesting that seriously around here. Killing the Keystone XL pipeline may help one of the world's richest men get richer. North Dakota's booming oil fields will now grow more dependent on a railroad the president's economic guru just bought…. As oil production ramps up in the Bakken fields of North Dakota, plans to use the pipeline to transport it have been dashed. As a result, North Dakota's booming oil producers will have to rely even more on the Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) railroad, which Buffett just bought, to ship it to refineries. When President Obama was first running for office, he publicly declared that Warren Buffet was his prime source for economic advice. http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/warren_buffett_and_the_keystone_decision.html | ||
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