|
On December 04 2015 05:27 Trfel wrote:
@disformation (not going to quote it because that was a long post:
I disagree with the readability of someone depending on what they actually do. I feel that as long as someone gets to like a page and a half or two pages of posts, you have enough information to get a fair shot at reading them. It doesn't matter what those posts are. Even if it's just a single period in every single post, I think it's reasonable to analyze the timing and frequency of those posts to figure out the alignment. Unless they're actually paying no attention to the game at all. Even scrolling down to the posting box would make them a bit more readable.
But anyway, since you probably won't agree with my example, it's not always about what someone does. It's about what someone doesn't do. In this case, MoosyDoosy wasn't under suspicion and he did zero scumhunting. Judging by the three MoosyDoosy games I looked at (I asked for MoosyDoosy's worst town game and that was one of the games I analyzed), MoosyDoosy always does some useful things as town. It's the lack of those posts that is important, you don't need those posts to read him.
Also, you're assuming that I can't have good reads too. Which isn't a very smart assumption, you should look at my play before you discount that possibility.
Part 4 is a direct application of the same read methods that were used in Part 3. Part 3 says nothing about MoosyDoosy, it's basically a guide to scumhunting. Part 4 uses that guide. Just like Bill Murray's play came from two mindsets (nuking people was not caring/insane, then tried to solve the game seriously) and that made him mafia, MoosyDoosy's play came from two mindsets (angry to be town, then happily posting away) and that makes him mafia.
Not showing any desire to solve the game is not a direct application of the method outlined in Part 3, however I think that the reasons why this almost always comes from scum are obvious. Part 5 actually says nothing by itself about MoosyDoosy in this game, it just shows that one potential flaw with the second part of Part 4 is not correct.
Both of these two arguments individually are extremely strong. It's when you put them together, use the meta to show that it's correct, and then look at NocturneMage's play that you have a bunch of different reasons all pointing to the same thing that you really know it's right.
Hm, maybe it is my problem with looking at trees too much again. xD
Also was not trying to say that you can't have good reads, I was trying to say that is was easier for geript to have a good read on MoosyDoosy, cause MoosyDoosy had done a bit more the game both were in.
Since I like looking at trees, I have a preference for people to plant a lot of them. But maybe looking at what trees they don't plant is a great idea. And yeah MoosyDoosy didn't plant anything this game.
I also understand your case a lot better now, probably looked at the parts in a too separate manner.
|
On December 04 2015 05:06 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 03:42 Trfel wrote:
Oh, I forgot to address Damdred's argument that MoosyDoosy enjoys playing in the game if Damdred is in the game.
MoosyDoosy says pre-game that he may not play Day 1 even though Damdred is in the game. MoosyDoosy also shows that he's upset when he rolls town. If MoosyDoosy is town, he wouldn't lie about being upset to roll town. Then he is never upset ever again in the game, which contradicts the earlier portion, regardless of Damdred's presence and its affect on his town play. Furthermore, MoosyDoosy doesn't actually play at all on Day 1. It's assumed that MoosyDoosy would be happy playing on Day 1 with Damdred, or not happy and not playing. These are the two town options. Happy and not playing is not an option.
Like, that's a poorly worded explanation. If you have any questions, let me know. Dude, chill. The case is long and hard (to read).  Am also a bit lightheaded. @Part1: You remember that MoosyDoosy actually did post a few town looking posts D1 in NSM17? Which made it a lot easier for geript to read MoosyDoosy. But I don't think he was the only one to realize that, I remember more ppl were getting unsure/dropping the vote after that. geript was a total baller and had incredible reads that game though. So yeah, MoosyDoosy is readable, but it depends a bit on what he actually does. This game I don't remember any posts from him that aren't "lol wtf banana boat, I am a coinflip, yo". @Part2: I can agree to this. @Part3: Okay, Ver's reads sound pretty good... but I am not sure what you want to say with this? Can you summarize the important points and apply them to MoosyDoosy/NM? @Part4: Well, that is Part2 with the relevant quotes added. No wait there is a bit more stuff added. Well, yeah these posts aren't the epitome of town and could easily come from scum. Still feel coinflippy about that though. But yeah the town suggests he is having great fun. Ah yes his comment on me is pretty strange. In NSM17 he was pushing me kinda hard and decided I was even more scummy for defending myself (we were both town). So no idea what he was trying to say... @Part5: This one is interesting. I might have to check those games myself, if I get some time. @Part6: Yes, NocturneMages entry had some odd stuff on it. Actually upon rereading I agree with your post here: + Show Spoiler +On December 03 2015 12:25 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 10:57 NocturneMage wrote:
yo, at work, on mobile, finishing work late tonight, need to go to bed right after though and I have seminars all damn day tomorrow.
I've not read dick all or followed the game for d1 quite yet, but I'm VT and I'm ready to fuck up some dirty dirty scummers.
reading from end of cycle, I'm pretty suspicious of trfel again (I say again because he was scum the last game) but that's mainly because of how he played last game. of course he'd push moosydoosy, he's unreadable as fuck as either alignment. same desperation emotions when no one is listening to him. unless he does this as town. cool story bro, try harder because I'm not scum. This post is extremely scummy. Makes me more convinced that I'm right. NocturneMage didn't acknowledge any of the differences between my play this game and last game, which is drastic in the way that I pushed my reads and the method of the reads themselves. NocturneMage also scumreads me for pushing MoosyDoosy, and I have no clue why that's suspicious to him when he just saw me push the strongest players in the game as mafia last game, so he knows that I don't resort to "easy targets" as mafia... The extremely dismissive tone without having read the thread is very uncharacteristic. Last game as town, NocturneMage was very reasonable and methodical, and people said that he was much more aggressive tonally as mafia. The tone used here would perhaps be justified if he had actually read the thread or had actual reasons. I thought of some new ways to try to explain/evaluate my MoosyDoosy read, I'll give that a try after I catch up with some stuff. Have you looked at NocturneMage's scum game in NSM13? Scum lean? Sure, but the 99% is a bit excessive imo. I think the slot is more likely to be scum now, but I am not sure I agree on the 99% slamdunk mafia. MD still feels a bit coinflippy and while the NM posts don't match his town game in NSM17 they don't fit the scum game in NSM13 either... on the other hand his game wasn't really strong NSM13... maybe I should look at NSM13 again, too. But I am still quite confident that NM will be a lot easier to read D2.
OK I'm convinced. I liked the part about his play on Newbie XVI. It's true that it is actually extremely different.
|
Its pretty obvious no matter what I say that your conclusion I'm mafia gor bad reasons are going to stick.
And you really haven't moosey hasn't done anything this game and is 100% a coin flip, nm will be more readable. But your case is founded on bad meta basically.
|
I'm not saying that slot can't be scum but I don't think its as lock as you portray it.
|
On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote:
Its pretty obvious no matter what I say that your conclusion I'm mafia gor bad reasons are going to stick.
And you really haven't moosey hasn't done anything this game and is 100% a coin flip, nm will be more readable. But your case is founded on bad meta basically.
Can you answer his post about your read on LS ?
|
My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on?
if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls.
Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys
|
On December 04 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on?
if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls.
Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys
Man I really hope we have a cop and he checks you.
|
On December 04 2015 03:27 Palmar wrote:
I actually like Rels right now
Can you answer this ?
On December 03 2015 22:25 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 22:19 Palmar wrote:
And my alignment is obvious because I just don't play this way as mafia. Even if it isn't obvious to you right now, just try to lynch me later in the game and it will become.
If you haven't played much with me before: I do not like being lynched, I will generally put a lot of effort into not being lynched because I consider whoever gets lynched to be the worst player in the game. This means that I am usually very, very active in defending myself when people want to lynch me. I should never, ever be vigi shot, it is objectively a bad play. What way do you play as mafia then ?
|
On December 04 2015 06:10 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on?
if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls.
Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys Man I really hope we have a cop and he checks you.
would be a wasted check, I'm 100% readable by the vast majority of this site.
My filter is pretty good just because people get stuck on little things that don't make people scum....
|
On December 04 2015 06:12 Rels wrote:Can you answer this ? Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 22:25 Rels wrote:On December 03 2015 22:19 Palmar wrote:
And my alignment is obvious because I just don't play this way as mafia. Even if it isn't obvious to you right now, just try to lynch me later in the game and it will become.
If you haven't played much with me before: I do not like being lynched, I will generally put a lot of effort into not being lynched because I consider whoever gets lynched to be the worst player in the game. This means that I am usually very, very active in defending myself when people want to lynch me. I should never, ever be vigi shot, it is objectively a bad play. What way do you play as mafia then ?
Palmar is probably town....but he's a good scum player.... He plays with a plan in mind as scum.
|
On December 03 2015 07:33 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:28 Fidei86 wrote:On December 03 2015 07:27 Half the Sky wrote:On December 03 2015 07:25 The Shining wrote:On December 03 2015 07:22 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 07:20 The Shining wrote:
I'm having trouble ever remembering a time LS has reacted that way to being scummed/voted, and most of the times we've played together he was town. Except that one time he was scum. But he didn't react this way, either. Can't tell if it's an attempt to get that "genuine anger townread" that's been floating around games lately. That reaction seems very similar to what I would expect from LightningStrike as town. Why do you think otherwise? I remember one game we played not too long ago where every time someone suspected him he accused them of being on crack. Yes he discredits them hard but the caps and cursing feels uncharacteristic. Unless I'm just not remembering correctly. But that somewhat recent game that I rolled scum in, he didn't go this ham. I'd have to disagree, he lost his head to the point in Himalayas that Fecalfeast and I warned and took post-game action on him. It is not unprecedented. But Dani would you not agree that usually he puts more of an effort than this? Thinking about switching. ...I'm still on the fence with you. Don't vote LS and make this harder for me sigh
*sigh* work. Back now.
First question I have is for LS. Dude. You were scum reading me all day, and I was one of your few relatively solid reads. But then you sheeped me very early with relatively little reason. Why the sudden change of heart?
|
On December 03 2015 07:42 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA.............
Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW.
##Vote:MooseyDoosey OK rsoultin read time: angry LS is town LS.
Rels is probably town for this.
|
On December 03 2015 07:49 disformation wrote:
Hm, I don't know. I don't really feel the town vibe in his post. Like the capslock turn me off, I guess. Also had to read it twice to guess what his stance on Damdred is.
But I haven't played a game with LightningStrike. I think I shadowed HtS in a game where LightningStrike was gunsmith, but I don't remember/recall him being that emotional.
What gives me a bit of a pause is that now nearly everyone is voting for LS. -.-
I think this probably makes disfo town as well.
|
Actually all of the above is predicated on LS being town. I'm not convinced by the "mod confirmed" argument.
|
Damdred, if you are still around, what is your current read on Trfel?
|
On December 03 2015 08:10 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 08:08 Damdred wrote:
LS has basically mod confirmed himself as town.
That's pretty shitty but we have to work with it I guess. Everything about his play says town except for the thing that I quoted. I actually think that the thing that I quoted is extremely scummy, such that he can't be town. Do you think otherwise, and if so can you please explain it to me so that I can be comfortable with my LightningStrike townread? Also, NocturneMage, I apologize for you having replaced into a mafia slot. At least I have a fair opportunity for revenge.
Trfel you were convinced LS was scum, urged people not to shift off him, weren't convinced by the "mod confirmed" argument, but then moved off him and onto MD? Yes you were on MD before LS, but why?
|
On December 03 2015 08:18 The Shining wrote:
Trfel. You think LS is scum now. Especially after his comments regarding lynching Moosy after his flip, but saying he's just voting Moosy to save himself. But you just said NM replaced into a scumslot. Does this mean you think both lynches were scum before the shennany onto kush?
Also this. 0.0 didn't think of this this way, but pretty sure TS is town now.
|
Damdred
I'm short on time and I don't know exactly what I'm going to say when I start this post. This will probably end up being one of those evil "narratives".
First post
+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2015 08:27 Damdred wrote:
Well hello there strangers.
My name is Damdred and we need a clear direction in this thread, I am the hero that you guys have and need. This is the plan, we each are responsible for our own reads but also communicating them to the thread.
Firstly for the roles, nobody should talk about this besides an opinion going forward, if you are a named towny you should claim asap, it narrows down the pool that we lynch from and also gives us more to work with. however if you are the Vet do not claim unless absolutely necessary. If you are shot claim if you aren't shut the hell up. After you use your power claim straight away your findings if you are one shot obviously do not pussy foot away and give mafia the ability to cause town to second guess you. As such thank you for your time in reading this.
Secondly I am going to try to keep my posts as concise as possible but with as much read information in it as I can, I will attempt to update the thread every 10-15 posts with where I have people and will be able to answer why they are there, I implore each of you to make as many reads as you can and when questioned do not freak out.
Anyway lets have us a good game.
Super Town:
Damdred
This post is mafia motivated because there is no scumhunting or thread progression at all in the post. Setup discussion is generally useless, as is telling everyone how you are going to play. I am pretty sure that Damdred actually didn't follow through with how he said he would play (concise, dense posts with an update every 10-15 posts).
It's also mafia motivated because of what isn't there. There were several posts in the thread by the time that Damdred posted, including MoosyDoosy saying that he hadn't read his role PM and me (Trfel) voting for MoosyDoosy. He didn't want to talk or get involved in the discussion at all, even to make really weak start-of-game reads. This feels primarily motivated by wanting to look good to the thread.
Damdred's initial suspicion of me (Trfel)
+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:44 Trfel wrote:
Hm, LightningStrike hasn't posted at all yet. Very suspicious, I would have expected him to be really excited for this game since he hasn't played in a while.
Disformation, why are you only bringing up Damdred's post now, and not right when he posted it? Trfel might be mafia since LS clearly posted in the thread why he wouldn't be here till later. Interesting...
As I explained previously, LightningStrike's pregame post about his activity has no relevance on my alignment whatsoever. The fact that Damdred specifically mentioned the pregame post as a reason for me being mafia suggests that he's focused on looking good for remembering something pregame and using that pregame post as a point of leverage to scumread me, instead of actually finding mafia.
Response to my first case on him
+ Show Spoiler +I give a really long case: On December 01 2015 09:16 Trfel wrote:DamdredI need to go do some stuff, so I should explain this now instead of hoping someone else sees it. Required knowledge: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 06:06 LightningStrike wrote:
oh another pre game excuse: I wont be here until like 4 hours after game start due to college class into going out to eat with my parents :o 44 minutes after the start of the game (by deadline time, not actual start, thanks Blazinghand), I posted this: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:44 Trfel wrote:
Hm, LightningStrike hasn't posted at all yet. Very suspicious, I would have expected him to be really excited for this game since he hasn't played in a while. Damdred questioned me (Trfel) with this post: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote:On December 01 2015 08:44 Trfel wrote:
Hm, LightningStrike hasn't posted at all yet. Very suspicious, I would have expected him to be really excited for this game since he hasn't played in a while.
Disformation, why are you only bringing up Damdred's post now, and not right when he posted it? Trfel might be mafia since LS clearly posted in the thread why he wouldn't be here till later. Interesting... I pressured him, and he responded here: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:54 Damdred wrote:On December 01 2015 08:50 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote:On December 01 2015 08:44 Trfel wrote:
Hm, LightningStrike hasn't posted at all yet. Very suspicious, I would have expected him to be really excited for this game since he hasn't played in a while.
Disformation, why are you only bringing up Damdred's post now, and not right when he posted it? Trfel might be mafia since LS clearly posted in the thread why he wouldn't be here till later.Interesting... Okay, what the heck. First of all, if you think about it for a second, you can probably see what I was trying to do. You may not agree with my method, but you know me well enough to see it. Second, why would does this make me mafia in any way? Like, why does the fact that LightningStrike posted that he wouldn't be here at the start of the game have any bearing on my alignment? I do know what you are trying to do, and if you are fishing you might want to try a different type of bait. Secondly could be you don't care about reading the thread, and just trying to find someone to put suspicions on. The key phrases are in bold. Basically, Damdred initially was suspicious of me (Trfel) for not reading the thread and trying to find someone to be suspicious of. And in his initial post with these suspicious, he specifically stated that these suspicions of me are only valid because of LightningStrike's pre-game excuse. LightningStrike's pre-game excuse has no implication on my alignment whatsoever. Damdred is basically saying that because my suspicion of LightningStrike was invalid, I was suspicious. However, why would I as mafia make a post about a player's inactivity when that player said, before the game, that they wouldn't be around at the start of the game? There is zero reason for mafia to do this. The only thing that LightningStrike's pre-game excuse says about my play is that my reason to be suspicious of LightningStrike was invalid. First, it was invalid without the pre-game excuse as well. And second, my argument being invalid doesn't have any relevance on my alignment. As does reading posts in the thread that were made before the game started. Damdred failed to address the main question that I asked, which was why LightningStrike's pre-game excuse affects my alignment. His suspicion of me made zero sense, and Damdred is a very sensible player as town. Combine this with his entrance post, completely ignoring everyone else in the thread and saying that his play would follow his (rough) scum meta of fewer posts more focused on analysis. He responds as follows: On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Ummmm....
Your so dumb trfel that's not my scum meta at all. Completely ignoring 95% of the things that I said.
This is mafia motivated because instead of actually addressing my arguments (he thinks that I'm town), he dismissed one point that's very subjective and difficult to argue about. Basically, he's ignoring the arguments that he can't do anything about, because he can't do anything about them, and only focusing on the one that he can. I would be okay if he had simply said "the rest of your arguments are true but that doesn't make me mafia", but he just said "you're dumb" and ignored most of my comments (this is what it says to do in the mafia guide, this is what I did to geript and NocturneMage last game as mafia when they raised good arguments against me). If you believe that someone is town and scumreading you for stupid reasons, it's ALWAYS beneficial to town to try to explain why they are wrong, both to increase your credibility and to let them catch actual scum.
Damdred's townread on The Shining
+ Show Spoiler +(excerpt) On December 01 2015 09:46 Damdred wrote:
3) His attack on Palmar I think is genuinely town indicative.
- Palmar is a hard target even for top townies, and while I think that shining is a good player as scum he generally attacks lower activity players, which fid could be an example of this. But his somewhat BM towards Palmar and his continued attack shows a clear lack of caring if he lives or dies. Which in shinings case actually is indicative of him being town.
This point is very flawed, as Palmar mentioned. The Shining didn't know that Palmar would be a hard target when he initially scumread him, because Palmar was giving scumreads with no explanation; generally that's a very easy target. Damdred clearly didn't think this through, and it seems like he might not have actually been trying to figure out The Shining's alignment.
Damdred avoided working with me and answering my questions
+ Show Spoiler +I'm not going to provide every example because it would take all day. I made a read, and Damdred responded as follows: On December 02 2015 02:28 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 02:24 Trfel wrote:
I realized that DoYouHas' activity fits a mafia motivation fairly strongly, assuming that Damdred is town. And still fits somewhat if Damdred is mafia. this is bad and you should know why On December 02 2015 02:33 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 02:28 Damdred wrote:On December 02 2015 02:24 Trfel wrote:
I realized that DoYouHas' activity fits a mafia motivation fairly strongly, assuming that Damdred is town. And still fits somewhat if Damdred is mafia. this is bad and you should know why I think it's great. Please explain? I respond with this post. No scumread, no suspicion, just trying to figure something out. Again, he's townreading me at this point. Damdred completely ignores me, and only (probably accidentally) answers the question when Half the Sky mentions my post. On December 02 2015 04:00 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 03:53 Half the Sky wrote:On December 02 2015 02:28 Damdred wrote:On December 02 2015 02:24 Trfel wrote:
I realized that DoYouHas' activity fits a mafia motivation fairly strongly, assuming that Damdred is town. And still fits somewhat if Damdred is mafia. this is bad and you should know why I took a hard look at DYH's filter again, obviously you aren't talking about the progression on yourself, but where you are drawing a contrast between say, his activity and, say, kushm4sta's? (LS and Shining have had obvious RL excuses, so I'll leave them out.) that's a good thought and glad someone picked up on it. There are several people who are fitting into the same activity patterns so not sure why it would necessarily make x mafia over y. However there is another bad part to it and that's u flipped association which isn't as important. Damdred made several posts in between when I asked the question and when he finally discussed it again.
As previously explained, not talking about things with a townread is very harmful for town. However, talking about it only with someone else is intentionally malicious. It's possible that he just missed it, but there are a LOT of examples in the game. This is just the worst one.
LightningStrike read
+ Show Spoiler +I'm going to use red for all of the times he scumreads LightningStrike for having no scumreads (or something very similar) On December 02 2015 09:36 Damdred wrote:
Disinformation
Eels
Damdred
Shining
Palmar
Leans
Trfel
Fid (falling)
Ls
Honestly it's notso bad so far even though I've read 0 filters. On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this. (this post less than two hours before the lynch, this is an entrance post) On December 03 2015 06:13 Damdred wrote:
Sure LS usually even if he is wrong is a strongish prescense in the thread giving his opinion and trying to get people to interact with him while he gives scum reads.
He lacks real reads in the thread, the few he has given have been little substance. The one scum read I can tell in his filter was Trfel that he has totally backed off of. He isn't looking to push anyone he is just existing.
On December 03 2015 06:38 Damdred wrote:
Honestly Palmar I feel pretty strongly about LS I know its a bit of work, but just do me this favor and look at him its 2 pages of filter if that.
He has 0 scum reads, he town reads people for little reason showing no fear of me or you who he generally has a great deal of respect/fear for our scum games.
Has absolutely no scum reads, has no positions in the thread.
Just see if i'm right/wrong and tell me and then if you think i'm so dead wrong we can talk about maybe lynching kush/onegu On December 03 2015 07:01 Damdred wrote:
Let me juts simply state why LS is scum so people will go yep sheep the damdred.
1) Little to no reads
2) No scum hunting
3) Not really involved in the thread as it goes forward, really side lined
4) Has no scum reads at all even states as much
5) His trfel progression is very strange
Good lynch indeed On December 03 2015 07:57 Damdred wrote:
If you flip VT like you claim LS you only have yourself to blame, you posted no real reads didn't hunt scum now you aren't even trying to be helpful to the thread.
I'm willing to move to Kush or DY if we have the people though as I don't like there switch This post basically says "LightningStrike is bad and I'm willing to lynch someone else" while implying that LightningStrike is mafia the entire time. On December 04 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on?
if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls.
Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys I address the first point of this post right here. Last game, as mafia, I made a case on scott31337 last game and got him lynched instead of my scum partner Breshke. Just because everyone followed me does NOT justify it, you have to look back at the reasons and determine the motivation, which is what I've done and what Damdred isn't actually answering.
Okay, so here I'll name every point that Damdred raised against LightningStrike.
- Doesn't have a strong thread presence (and normally does as town)
- Isn't trying to get people to interact when he posts scum reads (and normally does as town)
- No scum reads
- Easy town reads, no fear (specifically says that townreads on Damdred and Palmar usually aren't given by LightningStrike as town)
- Not pushing anyone, just existing (staying on the sidelines)
- No scum hunting
First, the "no scum reads" point is the point that Damdred made with by far the greatest frequency. Twice, he even said that point twice in the same post. He's clearly taking that point quite seriously.On December 04 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on?
if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls.
Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys Hm, interesting. His continued dismissal of my question is also interesting, because if you read the initial post where I asked it and the game I referenced, my case on LightningStrike in that game said many of the same things that Damdred said in this game. Here is the post where I explained this. And below is a list of the points I raised against LightningStrike in that past game.
- No scumreads
- Not changing the thread activity/not involved
- Not pressuring anyone
Dismissing these points from Damdred's case (or at least things that are extremely similar, and yes I realize that everything is kind of related...), I see two points remaining:
- Easy town reads
- No scum hunting
First one is a standard of LightningStrike's play (as both alignments). He became known for those huge posts with a bunch of reads that were all town or null, with no scum reads at all. To do that, he obviously made a lot of really easy town reads.
Second one is a very bold claim that isn't supported by any evidence that Damdred provided (no scum reads and no scum hunting are very, very different things). Looking through LightningStrike's filter for evidence of scumhunting.
+ Show Spoiler +Again, LightningStrike's suspicion of me felt very genuine. On December 01 2015 12:18 LightningStrike wrote:Hi guys I had just got home and read and Tfrel tried to snipe me when I was gone even though in the pregame I EVEN TOLD EVERYONE I WAS GOING TO BE GONE TILL NOW -_- Here the quote for proof: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 06:06 LightningStrike wrote:
oh another pre game excuse: I wont be here until like 4 hours after game start due to college class into going out to eat with my parents :o Anyways Tfrel seems like a scumlean for now for trying to snipe me and tried to case Damdred when Damdred caught tfrel on the fact that I told everyone I wasn't going to be here till now. Palmar seems town for now he actually being serious although I don't think Shining is really scum yet but he fooled me till later in my last game when he was scum. I also liking Damdred this game for his responses and actually trying to hunt scum. I need more time on MD because his play style is so weird my experience playing with him and hosting/cohosting games involving him. DYH seems townlean he actually tried to comment on stuff that is relevant to the game. @kush: If you are here what you think of Shining vs Palmar? @Palmar: Okay if Shining is town then who is mafia and why? Also some Christmas pictures for Palmar because I know he's a huge sucker for Christmas: ![[image loading]](http://soclday.com/p/2015/10/images-of-christmas-xaqo9t5w.jpg) On December 01 2015 12:52 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 12:47 The Shining wrote:
It's not the first time you've played with me, nor the first time I've reacted that way. Why is it interesting to you? Do you find it indicative in any way? What do you think of what I said about fidei, or what palmar said about me, or revel about damdred? I was just trying to see if your thoughts had changed since you cooled off. Anyways I think Palmar is town he did this very similarly how he did when I first played with him in Metal Mini when I was town vs his town. Damdred is town like I said earlier I liked his responses since it's a Damdred thought. James is null atm because he went straight to bed afterwards. Also Hi Damdred how are you? Meta reads with a specific game mention I think are a bit more common from LightningStrike's town play than mafia play. On December 01 2015 20:02 LightningStrike wrote:Hi I just woke up and I am feeling tired still because I obviously only got like 7 hours of sleep so if I sound tired based on my posts that's why but some people had some comments/questions towards me: Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote:LightningStrike:On December 01 2015 12:18 LightningStrike wrote:
DYH seems townlean he actually tried to comment on stuff that is relevant to the game. Specifically, what comments did he make that were relevant to the game, and why do they make him town? Damdred: (and PLEASE, no one else answer this, don't be stupid...):I'm sorry, I know you don't want to talk about this, but it's driving me insane. Hypothetical scenario 1: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Joe for not having posted. Hypothetical scenario 2: Trfel makes a post an hour into a mafia game casting suspicions on Bob for not having posted. Bob said before the game that he would not be present for the first few hours of the game. What difference do you see between these two scenarios?
Palmar seems like obvious town. There's one thing I hope to check eventually, though. I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. I still think that Damdred is mafia, but I remembered that the past several times I've played with Damdred (both town) I've always thought he was mafia  I'm guessing that I have some preconceived notions for what I expect Damdred to do, and whenever he doesn't behave exactly as I would expect him to, I think he's mafia. And it seems to be very hard for me to separate this from mafia motivations... Did anyone else find Damdred's townread of The Shining a bit off? Palmar commented on why the third point is invalid, which I completely agree with. He wasn't really afraid to post his thoughts on the stuff when he was around and I know it's limited content but still when he was around he did try to be involved a little bit. I might be a huge sucker for people. Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:42 Fidei86 wrote:
Morning folks.
So I have two competing thoughts about Shining. The first is that I entirely agree with Palmar about why Shining's play makes no sense. I'd also add that it's even more strange that his 'read' on me seemed almost entirely OMGUS, but then as soon as HTS made a point against me in her thread entry, he adopted it and parroted it as the new reason he didn't like me. The second is that he and Palmar seem very invested in this fight - much more so than seems warranted by the early stage of the game. They have been back and forth, what, five or six times now? Almost to the exclusion of everyone else. The 'better' play as town is plainly to apologise for bad thread entry (which Shining did, admittedly, do) and then to turn attention elsewhere (which neither Palmar or Shining have done). The only thing I have to say in Shining's defence is that his rebuttal's read very heartfelt. That can be something that is hard to replicate as mafia, and it's giving me pause here. I would say Shining is a very slight scum read for me, but I wouldn't vote for him as yet.
Also - morning Rels. Re my read on you - I've watched you play enough games as mafia now to think I have a reasonable handle on your meta. Yes, you are totally capable of breaking your meta, but your "I give no fucks" tone and posting content is town Rels to me.
Lightning Strike's entrance seems way over the top to me, especially for him. Usually he comes in and posts some relatively anodyne 1-liners, whereas here he came in with a big long paragraph attacking someone (Trfel I think) for calling him out earlier. In my experience, town LS is much more relaxed and jokey, until he starts getting attacked seriously (which I don't think had happened by that point). Then again, LS is primo lynch-bait D1, so I'll try and avoid getting too tunnelled for now.
My one heretical thought at the moment is that Dani might be mafia. I know, I know. It's more of a hunch than a real read, but I'm just not feeling it from her posts so far. Town Dani that I've known usually goes in one direction, then another, and she has an almost relentless quality. Too many of her posts last night were backtracking on things she had already said, and it's not clear she reached anything much of a landing point. It could be because it's early and because she's tired though.
Moosy is posting the same kind of rubbish that he posted in our first Newbie game together. In that game he was new and was inadvertently trying some sort of Chezinu--style baits. Which, in fairness, worked. Then when he was mafia and I was town, he was super super serious all game. Obviously if he doesn't contribute further then at some point we will have to lynch him for being useless / lynch all lurkers, but for now I give him a slight town read. I had posted paragraphs as town before when I wasn't there at the start of the day for a entry post(see slytherin) but about attacking Trfel: it seemed like he wants to try and find a reason to scum read me even though I had said in the pregame that I wouldn't be around till like 4 hours after start of the game. Just a little bit frustrated from that and I glad Damdred called him out on it too. Again, I really like this post about DoYouHas. I don't agree with the reasoning that LightningStrike used here, but it was something very different from what I expected. This suggests that LightningStrike is actually thinking about things and trying to solve the game, just in a very different way than I am. Given how LightningStrike's stance at the time was contrary to about 80% of the things that DoYouHas had said, this read feels like it wouldn't come from scum and shows thought. On December 02 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote:
Just got to college campus and took care of stuff and about Palmar: It's meta read that I have on him because he did similar stuff to me in Metal Mini which you observed and I do find Shining town for now although he did show huge emotions as scum last game but I giving him a benefit of a doubt. Mainly Shining's content seems better ths game than his last game when he was scum vs me. On December 02 2015 07:32 LightningStrike wrote:Back from class after some relaxation. Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 07:18 Rels wrote:
LS: if you had to name a team of 3 mafias, who would that be and why ? Idk yet this game is getting a little hard. I wish that Onegu and Kush actually do stuff so I can flesh them out in terms of alignment. Otherwise after considering that he did his thing on me as a trap(if I reading this correctly) Tfrel moved to null for now but still it was kind of a weird thing to do for him. Idk why people having trouble with DYS? I see him more of a newbie player than a veteran player honestly so(shrugs). So nothing yet for a team. Openly admitting that he has no scum reads is generally slightly town, from my experience. But LightningStrike provides what he intends to do going forward and shares his thoughts. On December 03 2015 00:21 LightningStrike wrote:Well I am now full awake after some time(Mountain Dew FTW for Caffeine). Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. Palmar and Damdred are certainly Town. Palmar like I said his seriousness and his behavior towards Shining earlier was pretty much what he did when I played with him in Metal Mini when he showed similar behavior towards me. Damdred is actually full tryhard mode plus he actually trying to steer the direction of the town a few times. Rels I would like to call him town but his town game is so similar to his scum game as I been fooled by him in my last games I had played before taking a break -_- Look, it's a "fear read" on Rels! Isn't the lack of these a reason that Damdred called LightningStrike mafia? Plus, LightningStrike is actually explaining his townreads on Palmar and Damdred (the two people that Damdred specifically mentioned), and Damdred thinks that both of them are really obvious townreads this game. This basically invalidates the other point that Damdred was making again, as well as showing scumhunting. On December 03 2015 03:16 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:13 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:06 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 03:04 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:01 LightningStrike wrote:On December 03 2015 02:58 Trfel wrote:On December 02 2015 23:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I just woke up, and I am not feeling any better. I'm headed to a doctor's appointment in an hour, but I am hoping to get back in thread barring anything serious.
I fully realise I have a shittonne to catch up on - if anyone has any questions for me, or anything specific they want me to weigh on, please prompt me and I'll do so when I return. First of all, really sorry that you aren't feeling well. Hope you can recover soon. Why did you vote for DoYouHas instead of kushm4sta? Why didn't you include LightningStrike in the lynch list? Now that he's (at least mostly, I think?) answered your questions, what do you think about him? Why did your read on me (Trfel) change? read her filter if you want to see her progression on me  + Show Spoiler + And where did you get that conclusion from? On December 02 2015 04:38 Half the Sky wrote:On December 02 2015 04:24 LightningStrike wrote:Okay I here now and Tfrel I did answer HTS just not directly quoted. On December 02 2015 04:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Looking at 346/349 -
LS, I'm not referring to meta. Let's make sure I'm not misunderstanding you here.
I'm not talking about Palmar's tone in general. I'm talking about his case. If you read the context differently, then tell me how you interpreted that.
You are saying that he's town because his tone is serious and from 349 it's based on meta. Okay fine, but regardless of meta, why would Palmar's case NOT be serious? What I'm trying to say here is that you are townreading him for a poor reason. I didn't say it wasn't serious? Anyways the way he argued Shining like I said had a serious tone plus like said he did a very similar thing to me in Metal Mini when I was fighting him and felt frustrated with him. It took me a bit of arguing to get him to townread me in that game because I was still a newbie lol.... So it a little both but more towards personal experience with him. Argh, no. I am saying that you said his tone is serious. In any case, you want to say you are giving a personal read towards him. Alright, I still think this is a bad read because like I said before Palmar really can't be done off one read, but now that I've fleshed it out I don't think you are mafia for this. Still need to read the rest of your filter in conjunction with Trfel/Damdred when I return though. Yeah.... "I don't think you are mafia for this" means that Half the Sky is not scum reading you for one specific thing in your filter. As in, she could be scum reading you for the entire rest of your filter. And that's not a townread on that one thing either. Does anyone know if LightningStrike is generally this self-conscious as town with regards to other people's townreads on him? To make a big jump like this and try to assume everything is a townread? Because this is making me doubt my earlier town lean on him. It's implied I thought O_o(At least how I read it and I hope she gets better soon honestly) Also for note you played a shit ton of games with me when I'm town and I surprised you kinda forgot how I play To me, "for note" means "I'm going to save this for later because I think it's important (aka suspicious)". This is scumhunting and this makes a lot of sense for LightningStrike to say. This is everything pre-scumread.
Summarizing all of this to "no scum hunting" without any explanation is a very, very large jump. Again, it's not what you think that someone is doing, but what they think they are doing. This is how LightningStrike scum hunts, read any of his town games. I tried to concisely demonstrate this by showing that Damdred doesn't scumread LightningStrike for similar play (aka no scum reads, no thread presence). I actually didn't think that anyone ever described LightningStrike as being a high thread presence player as town, so that's a very strange comment from Damded as well.
Basically, it seems to me like Damdred's LightningStrike read came out of nowhere, with reasons that make no sense at all and Damdred definitely knew that they didn't make sense. And Damdred was clearly more interested in pushing the LightningStrike read than actually figuring out LightningStrike's alignment (shown by him saying the same point multiple times and making such a big deal out of the irrelevant point).
Conclusion
Damdred is likely to be mafia, ignoring MoosyDoosy/NocturneMage's alignment. Alone, these points aren't the strongest, but they all say the same thing.
These reasons aren't entirely explained, and I have a few more reasons that I don't think are easy to explain (that are probably stronger... the difficult to explain ones tend to be better). Any questions, feel free to ask.
|
On December 04 2015 06:53 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 08:10 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 08:08 Damdred wrote:
LS has basically mod confirmed himself as town.
That's pretty shitty but we have to work with it I guess. Everything about his play says town except for the thing that I quoted. I actually think that the thing that I quoted is extremely scummy, such that he can't be town. Do you think otherwise, and if so can you please explain it to me so that I can be comfortable with my LightningStrike townread? Also, NocturneMage, I apologize for you having replaced into a mafia slot. At least I have a fair opportunity for revenge. Trfel you were convinced LS was scum, urged people not to shift off him, weren't convinced by the "mod confirmed" argument, but then moved off him and onto MD? Yes you were on MD before LS, but why? I did not move off of LightningStrike and on to MoosyDoosy. I was on LightningStrike at the deadline.
I described this already, here:On December 03 2015 08:30 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 08:25 The Shining wrote:On December 03 2015 08:18 The Shining wrote:
Trfel. You think LS is scum now. Especially after his comments regarding lynching Moosy after his flip, but saying he's just voting Moosy to save himself. But you just said NM replaced into a scumslot. Does this mean you think both lynches were scum before the shennany onto kush? To me, LightningStrike's comments that I quoted indicate that he's scum, and I can't really see him being town despite that. However, the bulk of his play seems like a town lean (pre-yelling) to me. I tried to explain why earlier. The yelling itself seemed extremely towny, I'm used to LightningStrike reacting like that as town and the pre-lynch post is a strong town indicator. All of this combined makes me confident in my LightningStrike town read, were it not for the scummy thing above. Right now my guess is that LightningStrike is town and the thing that I mentioned isn't as important as I thought, even if I'm not quite sure why yet. There is no mafia motivation for it, so maybe that's why it's unimportant. I'm not quite as confident in MoosyDoosy being scum any more, because generally people would listen to me when I'm right. Like, I don't see how I could be wrong, however I need to clear my head and take another look. I think he is likely scum, though. I'm not sure what his post-deadline posts suggest, I'm really terrible at reading into emotions so I might have to ignore those. And I decided that LightningStrike's posts that I thought were suspicious were not suspicious, because it's just an extreme extension of desire to survive, which can come from both alignments (LightningStrike as town really really really plays to survive). Combined with voting analysis, which suggested that LightningStrike was town, I ended in a townread.
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at, hopefully that answered your question. If not, please ask.
|
Yes, I found that part of your filter later. You actually already answered my question before, but thanks again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
