EPTNewbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition - Page 61
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
For what it is worth: I played two games with scott. In both he got lynched D1. In one he was town in one he was mafia. In NSM9 where he was town, he played for a bit. Got scum read for it. Vanished, returned a few mins before deadline, gave a hard scum read on me and got lynched. In NSM10 where he was scum, he played for a bit. Got scum read for it. Vanished, never returned. Got lynched. I start to feel bad for always lynching him D1. I have no idea how a D2 scott looks like... But as a result Trfel's meta read on scott is super strange to me. =D | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott posted previously - link below with previous questions part 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1198 geript's initial callout: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1195 Part 2 of 3: Trfel's case on VisceraEyes - misinformed or malicious Trfel - 18 games, 3 as scum, 1 as third party VisceraEyes - 80 games (holy fuck mate you are an addict), 18 as scum, 5 as third party next step - games where trfel and viscera overlap (1) TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy (2) Aperture 4: This Time It's Personal (3) Assassination Mafia (4) Tropical Storm Mini Mafia - Trfel was mafia (5) Gaiden 2 - Trfel was mason, VE was mafia now, tbf, only problem here, case wasn't based on meta. ritoky and geript both had ve as town. at least one of them said ve isn't the most towny player in the world. did trfel take advantage of that? should he have known better that ve isn't a towny player? 5 games with VE, 4 of those with the relevant alignment for VE. should he have known better than to jump on VE? 5 games is a decent chock of experience. Gut reaction, I'm going to say yes here. questions for veterans (1) does VE as town get mislynched a lot? (2) is he a common target for mafia players to push? (3) based on what ritoky/geript said earlier my initial guess is yes. but if you have more information, it would help me a lot here as a newb if nothing else, the data is conclusive that VE is a mafia addict. someone get him a referral to mafiaholics counselling centre please.  but right now? if meta expectations hold and given that trfel has used meta at least once on geript this game (that post where he said "geript should know X" remember that?)....it's not looking good for trfel. part 3 of 3: Trfel's defence of Breshke - does it make sense? Trfel - 18 games, 3 as scum, 1 as third party Breshke - 20 games, 2 as scum next step - games where trfel and breshke were scum and town Trfel was not present in games where Breshke was scum. Games present together where Breshke was town (1) Student Mafia IV (2) TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy (3) Noir Mini Mafia (4) Newbie Student Mafia VII (5) TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden 5 games with Breshke when Breshke was town. That's enough information I feel to realise that Breshke if town here, could be falling below town expectations. MAFIA PLAY/AGENDA ALERT - he implicated that for scott for a scum meta, so the data is here, why not for Breshke? he said "geript should know X", why not "Breshke should do X"???? so at the very least geript's statement regarding misrepresentation of of Breshke's reads could be valid. Overall Conclusion: I think between the numbers alone on here, likely meta expectations, his casing of VE to be incorrect (with possible mafia expectations versus what he should know already on VE), his push on geript based on "geript should know X", if Farah/Damdred is vet and the proceedings against, or as others have put it trying to push an uncounterclaimed blue, NK/WIFOM analysis if geript was the nightkill, there's a better than decent chance Trfel is scum. [/b] like I'm not doing bloody meta reads folks. I'm trying to answer objective questions on expectations because geript threw meta expectations out. his alignment and the database game numbers support this. I hope you understand me. If not I can break it down another way. unless the database is fucked you can't argue with these. questions? comments? I think we have a Trfel/Breshke/+1 mafia team. I think someone is looking enough town just enough to fool us, and I think it might be Trfel. next steps - did Trfel and Breshke interact with each other in thread? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I don't use meta that much, honestly. My read on scott31337 wasn't really a meta read. My read was, scott31337 isn't trying to solve the game, therefore he's mafia. The only real "meta" part of this read is that scott31337 tries to solve the game as town (if he didn't he would probably be on the ban list). The rest of the read was just explanations and bonus, the above is the core read. I need to go to class in a few minutes, don't know what to think about Damdred yet, but it's probably best to give him some time. ##unvote I definitely need to re-evaluate Breshke and disinformation, I'll do that soon I hope. Exam tomorrow, though, which I really really really really need to study for T.T One more thing, about Eversince, it's not really that I want to try and guess what the hosts will do, but I just don't feel there is enough information to try and read Eversince (especially given that she was likely on drugs when she was posting). I don't even want to try to read her because it seems like a hopeless task. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I want every person to comment on post 1203. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On November 20 2015 01:21 NocturneMage wrote: I'm going back for my second seminar. I want every person to comment on post 1203. I also just noticed that FF is straight up voting Trfel. As a result I feel more like Breshke/FF or Trfel/+1 (probably Eversince). I really really wish the vigi would claim since it will make this mess sooo much easier. -.- Will read your post carefully and comment on it after doing the rest of my chores. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Can you summarize what points you're trying to make, so I can actually figure out what you're trying to say? I think you're trying to compare my reads with geript's reads, because geript is flipped town which makes him 100% right. So if I'm town, and I have enough experience, my reads should be the same. Well, this is false, because geript and I are different players and we play differently. We have different opinions on a lot of things and that's simply what works. Geript has this entire "meta sheet" that he used for his reads and I have nothing like that. One example of this is shown in geript's read of The Shining. Geript really disliked FarahBlackwing's townread of The Shining, which I really liked. Look at the obs qt for Battle of the Drams mafia, you can see Damdred and I discussing how to read The Shining for a bit, which is very similar to what FarahBlackwing said. And it's the same as what Damdred said in this game. As for my experience with Breshke, look at Noir Mafia Chapter 3. Breshke was on the lynch table for the entire game. That game, he played below his expectations as town. He doesn't always play his very best (let's be honest, no one does). Don't have time to try and piece through what you're saying in the rest of this, but you're not even addressing the arguments that I've made this game. How can you attempt to say what I "should have known" without looking at my reasoning? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
 I'll try to answer a little more clearly. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On scott31337 + Show Spoiler + On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: I believe that the argument is that I have played enough times with scott31337 that I "should have known his meta better". Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott posted previously - link below with previous questions part 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1198 geript's initial callout: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1195 The only thing that NocturneMage actually mentioned is quoting a geript post, the relevant parts below:
I didn't attack one post of scott31337's, my reasons for scumreading him were based on his entire filter. I never actually presented a complete case on scott31337, as I thought that his filter spoke for itself. I've demonstrated why the things I brought up are important. For reference, here is my most comprehensive case on scott31337: On November 18 2015 04:52 Trfel wrote: Again, the big point is that nothing he's doing shows any desire to solve the game.Quick Summary of scott31337's Filter Here's the reads summary of scott31337's first post.Why is the "not lynching right now but want to see more" category even included? The reasoning is very lacking. "I'm not seeing the spark" for Eversince's posting, but just read any one Eversince post, it's very obviously pointed and shows a unique mindset. This is a really useless phrase and I don't understand how this is true. This is an extremely useless comment. This says actually nothing. Yet he doesn't unvote until later, and has NEVER come to a conclusion about this. The random unvote timing makes no sense. The lack of analysis of my case makes no sense, he's not even trying. The fact that he repeats this non-argument, useless comment suggests that he's just trying to avoid my argument instead of address it. He can't scumread me and he knows it, but he's avoiding townreading me and avoiding listening to what I have to say. Finally, look at his progression on MoosyDoosy. 1. MoosyDoosy is mafia! 2. MoosyDoosy is town for martyring, he did this last game as mafia 3. Votes MoosyDoosy because he wants to kill lazy town ZERO changed between 2 and 3. Zero. He expected that MoosyDoosy would stop martyring and actually play? Scott31337 shows zero thinking and zero read progression. This is not a town mindset at all. Again, this isn't something that you can debate with meta. If you're not trying to solve the game, you're either mafia or you should be banned. On VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + I believe that the argument here is that I have played five games with VisceraEyes, and that VisceraEyes always looks scummy and is an easy target. It's true that VisceraEyes doesn't tend to be extremely towny as town, however that doesn't make him an easier lynch target. Mafia motivation is always mafia motivation, regardless of player skill. Much of my case on VisceraEyes directly involved mafia motivation, the rest of it suggested mafia motivation. Again, look at my arguments for scumreading VisceraEyes. On November 17 2015 05:05 Trfel wrote: In this very post, I addressed the meta arguments presented to townread VisceraEyes as I understand them.VisceraEyes (again) Note: Eversince will be addressed in a following post 1. On Eversince and FarahBlackwing Eversince's initial post, voting for The Shining Eversince's later post explaining the clear flaw in the above argument: VisceraEyes responds to this is a way that doesn't make sense at all. Before my case on VisceraEyes and the second post above from Eversince, VisceraEyes posted these posts: These three posts show that VisceraEyes is treating Eversince's first post seriously. He says that he likes Eversince's argument, and that he's townreading Eversince and scumreading FarahBlackwing because of it. Furthermore, he uses this repeatedly in his argument with The Shining, which apparently leads to a scumread of The Shining, shown by this post (among others): After my case and Eversince's post, showing that Eversince's early vote on FarahBlackwing had no basis, VisceraEyes says this:Ok, so he wasn't being serious earlier. Not only did he make a joke, but then he defended his joke several times, to the point of scumreading The Shining for it. I just can't believe this. 2. General For the moment, let's assume that VisceraEyes was in fact joking with his first series of posts, and let's ignore that this makes no sense. VisceraEyes receives a bunch of town reads after he leaves, notably from geript and ritoky. Notice how VisceraEyes leaves in the same minute that geript posts a strong townread of him. VisceraEyes made three posts upon return, shown below: + Show Spoiler [VisceraEyes' Posts] + On November 16 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I think it's both...the question itself was a little ambiguous so maybe he just answered it as best he could, including both townreads and mafiareads? On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. On November 16 2015 21:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Fecalfeast JUST IN CASE THERE WAS ANY DOUBT AS TO THE SERIOUSNESS OF MY POST!!!!!! VisceraEyes' next two posts are his thoughts about the game, and the only thoughts about the game that he's posted, assuming that his earlier posts were in jest. He says that he likes most of the people who have been posting (ok, so who doesn't he like then? not useful), and that he doesn't like Fecalfeast. I personally don't really like this Fecalfeast read, but whatever, it's sort of up for interpretation. But this is his ONLY read. Note that he spends a fair amount of this post responding to the townreads he's received. He's very aware of them, and this shows in his play. His activity tanked, he's not being useful or constructive, he made the terrible statement "I like most people who posted so far", which a perfect example of useless and lazy play. 3. Response to meta reads + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:50 geript wrote: Hm, people townreading VisceraEyes very strongly with little explanation. Where have I seen this before?I'm not voting for VE ever. This game. Everyone townread VisceraEyes for no reason. I thought VisceraEyes was scum. Everyone ignored me on the basis that "he's town". Guess what, he was scum. In fact, look at VisceraEyes' first post in that game. On August 26 2015 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Look familiar?Hi I'm town. Marv playing like Palmar makes me vom a little in my mouth. Otherwise I like most everyone who's posted so far. I don't see how the metareads given about VisceraEyes apply to this game. Either ~80% of his posts in this game were not serious, or he is clearly lying to try and explain his play. Ritoky's meta read has nothing to do with what I have presented, he didn't mention the posts related to this at all. As for geript's: On November 16 2015 06:13 geript wrote: I don't understand this read. I've seen VisceraEyes jump on things and not push them into oblivion as mafia, too. For example, look at the game I linked; VisceraEyes was scumreading both Palmar and I but when Palmar asked him to reread the entire game under the assumption that we were both town and then share his thoughts, he did so (or at least partially did so).Read other VE games. He's really easy to read when he gets semi active. Part of it is based in the fact that VE and I scum hunt rather differently. He takes on an egocentric (in the technical sense not in the asshole sense) view of other players; i.e. How he acts when he's scum and applies it to them. So when you see him jump on certain things in an accusatory way (especially when he's not trying to assream them) he's almost always town. My case stands for itself, I've had enough of random meta. Again, I don't use very much meta. Here's my scumread of VisceraEyes from Gaiden 2. On August 27 2015 17:59 Trfel wrote: In this game I was town and VisceraEyes was mafia.First he votes for WaveofShadow, and then decides to change his vote to MoosyDoosy based on how MoosyDoosy kept talking to WaveofShadow.This isn't a convincing case at all. VisceraEyes starts out by saying that he thinks that MoosyDoosy is pocketing WaveofShadow, but this is reasonable from town, but he gets a bad feeling anyway. Then he says that he can see something that can be considered towny may be able to come from a mafia perspective. And then he says it's better than voting for someone who is AFK. Which results in a vote on MoosyDoosy. VisceraEyes doesn't seem convinced by his own case. And he's downplaying his earlier vote on WaveofShadow, which felt really out of place anyway. I don't understand why he voted for WaveofShadow in the first place. The strength he places in his WaveofShadow read seems to vary a lot: VisceraEyes transitions from voting for WaveofShadow to seemingly being surprised and not having considered that WaveofShadow could be mafia. In this game there were also a ton of people who were townreading VisceraEyes either without giving reasons or giving meta reasons that I can't understand (more on the latter later). They didn't pay any attention to my case, I was forced to give up my VisceraEyes push because it was going nowhere. As for whether VisceraEyes is a good/common target for mafia to push, that's mostly for you to decide. But one thing about VisceraEyes is that there are a ton of people who will use meta to townread VisceraEyes every game he's in, sometimes incorrectly. This is made obvious by Gaiden 2, where my own mason partner Palmar gave an unexplained townread on VisceraEyes which ended up being wrong. There are so many people with experience playing with VisceraEyes that any push on VisceraEyes has to go through a lot of meta townreads first. On Breshke + Show Spoiler + NocturneMage wrote: Huh? Yes, I've seen from Noir Mini Mafia Chapter 3 that Breshke doesn't always play his best as town. But that's EVEN MORE reason to townread him.5 games with Breshke when Breshke was town. That's enough information I feel to realise that Breshke if town here, could be falling below town expectations. I don't understand this point. NocturneMage wrote:so at the very least geript's statement regarding misrepresentation of of Breshke's reads could be valid. I've already explained, many times, that I look at geript's read on Breshke and I look at Breskhe's filter and I see the exact opposite. I've tried to explain this, and I've tried to see what geript was trying to say, but geript never answered me.As I said earlier, the defining characteristic of Breshke's town play, to me, is the smart, insightful comments. Which I've seen this game. Breshke isn't the kind of player who dominates the thread and pushes his lynches through. He's the kind of player who analyzes things, tries to figure things out, and then posts his thinking for everyone else to see, and it's generally really useful. I'm pretty sure that this was discussed in Noir Mafia Chapter 3, if you want proof. It's the same view that rsoultin had about Breshke. Breshke's play this game is a reasonable fit for this description. The one problem with this read (other than the subjectivity) is that in Noir Chapter 3, he didn't provide any analysis that I considered really insightful, and he was town, so the negative isn't a definitive proof of mafia. I hope to re-evaluate Breshke soon anyway, and I will try to ignore my perceptions of Breshke's meta when I do so. Other + Show Spoiler + NocturneMage, you say the case isn't meta, but it's the very definition of meta. Meta is simply information used that comes from outside of the current game. Which is the entirety of this case. Unless I'm wrong on my definition of meta? (that would be pretty miserable, ~18 games on TL Mafia, still doesn't know what meta is...) On a different note, my playstyle and the way I make my reads is rather unique. I don't use a lot of meta. At least, relative to many other players. I don't really know how I make my reads, I don't know where they come from. I try to look for mafia motivations behind everything, but many of my reads don't directly involve mafia motivation. I also don't really use townreads that much, I prefer to simply find mafia. I try to re-evaluate everything for myself; what I can't understand, I can't support. For an example of why this is necessary, look at TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden. In this game, Palmar flipped mafia. The mafia team took this opportunity to keep on saying "Palmar never busses as mafia, he's always about trying to play a fun game, and to him a fun game is where mafia defends each other. So, anyone that Palmar pushed is town." I didn't have the background to understand this, or why it's a 100% read, but there were so many people saying this that we all ended up going with it. And Palmar had played the game by bussing as much as possible, one of the big things that led to a pretty awful town loss. As for how this applies to this game, I cannot simply accept geript's reads. When I'm not sure of his alignment, when I don't understand how he got his reads, when I'm seeing the exact opposite things that he mentioned, I cannot accept his reads because "he's geript". He never actually addressed the points that I had brought up. Never. NocturneMage's case has a bunch of other flaws caused by not actually reading the games involved. The simplest example of this is that NocturneMage said that I observed a game with scott31337 in it (Generic Boring Mini Mafia). This is technically true, I asked and received access to the obs qt, but I've never actually followed a game that I haven't played in for more than a few hours. I'm just not capable of it. You can look at the obs qt for yourself, see how active I was XD One final point: nothing makes sense without context. Ask any experienced mafia player, they'll tell you that mafia is all about context. Anyone can make any argument at any time, and it doesn't necessarily tell you anything, it's the context of that argument that is so important. You can take a bunch of stuff out of context and make any argument. ANY argument. But that doesn't mean that the argument is correct. NocturneMage's post involves zero context whatsoever. The post does not address any of my actual play this game or my actual reasoning behind my reads. The post does not address what actually happened in the games mentioned. The post does not address how I play mafia, and instead uses this idea of how I should play mafia (I have no clue where this idea even came from). The context leads to a completely different conclusion. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott The link to geripts initial callout leads to another of your posts? And while we are at it: what is the so-called WIFOM/NK analysis? Can you explain, or at least post a link? On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: Part 2 of 3: Trfel's case on VisceraEyes - misinformed or malicious Yeah, he was wrong on VE. But I have 0 clue as to how to figure out if he should have known better or not. You could play 100 games with sicklucker and still don't know how to read him.  I have like 0 experience with VE, so I have no clue how hard/easy he is to read. On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: but right now? if meta expectations hold and given that trfel has used meta at least once on geript this game (that post where he said "geript should know X" remember that?)....it's not looking good for trfel. Can you link that for me? I went through trfel's filter with a Strg+F on "geript" but wasn't able to find that. Wasn't he saying scott should now better about geript and that makes scott mafia? On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: part 3 of 3: Trfel's defence of Breshke - does it make sense? Well, Trfel is imo the only one defending Breshke, so that is something good to keep around, but currently that is an unflipped association, which is bad, mkey. On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: I hope you understand me. Negative. Like you are trying to say that Trfel is wrong on purpose, but I don't see how the number of games he played with x or y should indicate at how good he is able to meta them. That being said I do not know how good of a player Trfel is. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
And until we learn who the big shot we can't use either geripts or be read on who they think is scum or not. Anyway just got home so going to do some reading. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
the issue is that trfel could be working on a mafia agenda which I want people to discuss, I have a second post coming up. the big question is why he prioritised scott over breshke. it's a double standard. he takes one game to explain that breshke doesn't have a towny game which I can agree with. but scott has 11 games as town, 7 games where he's mislynched and 3 of those games mislynched as day 1. IDK. you don't have to read filters to understand that scott doesn't have a towny game either. the thing is scum play to survive. I realise why trfel said breshke has a towny followup, but was it really scum like for geript saving scott when he had the justification to do so? (or was it understandable in his own view for trfel to say that geript was scummy for trying to save scott?) | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 20 2015 02:41 disformation wrote: The link to geripts initial callout leads to another of your posts? And while we are at it: what is the so-called WIFOM/NK analysis? Can you explain, or at least post a link? geript's original posts were quoted in my post. If you want to see geript's original post it's post 918 and 925, it's quoted inside what I posted. the wifom/nk analysis I refer to is from newbie 14 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/493411-newbie-student-mafia-xiv-firefly?page=176#3506 specifically: On September 22 2015 09:06 rsoultin wrote: As a sidenote, HTS is right about the Slam NK (fidei, this is for you). It doesn't make much sense for anyone to NK slam, however it makes much less sense for either Slam or scott to NK one another and then try to convince one of the most townread to lynch one of the other most townread over them. Simply put, they are very unlikely to do that as it makes it almost impossible for them to win. The WIFOM isn't worth the struggle. That NK meant someone in a stronger position: you or Moosy. The way Moosy started D6 with his constantly changing story and endless missteps also might have been a clue. But he played well and you shouldn't feel bad for missing this. Another thing to note...there were times where Moosy did something I've seen recently from scum!ruxxar as well...namely scumreading someone by lecturing them on how a good townie should play. It's an odd mindset for town to have. Town usually says "I think x is scum for y, and if they're town they're awful for doing this." It was reversed for the newbie scum. "Good town should do x and since you didn't I think you're scum." <- see the difference in the mindset? what this basically means is that geript was pushing Breshke and Trfel and will make it hard for them to win if they are scum. yes it's wifom, no it's not fully definitive but it's something to consider. Yeah, he was wrong on VE. But I have 0 clue as to how to figure out if he should have known better or not. You could play 100 games with sicklucker and still don't know how to read him. I have like 0 experience with VE, so I have no clue how hard/easy he is to read. this is why I asked the questions I did for the veterans. scott has already demonstrated one case of where trfel can put a case together and get people lynched. so it's a caveat in his play. Can you link that for me? I went through trfel's filter with a Strg+F on "geript" but wasn't able to find that. Wasn't he saying scott should now better about geript and that makes scott mafia? On November 18 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote: Wait, what the heck? This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here. Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town. Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas. He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia. So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched? I don't like this one bit. That came from the geript is better than me at mafia, but even then this is a double standard because he's using a fear read (basically fearing geript as mafia) and holding scott to that standard and then using the same sentence to say that scott, in fearing trfel as mafia was unreasonable to do so. "scott should have known X" is still just as bad. the problem is, is that he's cherry picking because scott saw a townread in VE from geript that also resonated with him. the problem is that Trfel is saying "scott should have known" which isn't necessarily a reasonable assumption. from this scott at least took into consideration geript was possibly running mafia play: On November 17 2015 00:47 scott31337 wrote: I'm here and catching up From the games I've observed of VE - this is fairly spot on - He also shows a lot more emotion/caps/etc as town. From geript's first message I thought it could be a pocket, but I'm going to slight townlean/not lynching on both of them for now. I've read Trfel's "case" twice and I'm still not seeing it - I'm really not sure what to make of this - and it was coincidentally after geript's "do something or you die post".... mmm I'll see if this is explained more farther down in the thread. I'm not off then. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
to be fair people didn't have appropriate responses to him and even I asked geript to separate bad Trfel from mafia Trfel. when you add that up with his willingness to lynch farah - there was a point where I stopped myself as much as it pissed me off because mechanically we can afford to wait one cycle and then resolve, he still insisted on lynching her instead of finding the other two mafia, it makes me quite nervous. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
but if we decide eversince could be vig, then go with breshke for the lynch. need to grab dinner. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Scott31337 said that I could be mafia because I'm capable of making a compelling argument as mafia. Scott31337 said that geript is town because he made a post explaining how VisceraEyes' play fit his town meta. (validity of these points aside) The main problem isn't either one of the two points individually, the problem is the points combined. It doesn't make sense for scott31337 to give geript an easy townread and to refuse to townread me or analyze my thought process. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 20 2015 04:16 Damdred wrote: I don't know, this game has been miserable for me. Fighting with geript all of Day 1, only to realize that I've been wrong on three of my biggest suspects this game.Trfel will you tell me who is acum? All this right after I thought I was finally figuring out how to be a good mafia player.... I'll look at Breshke and disformation when I have a chance, but my exam is a much higher priority for me. | ||
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