EPTI am actually quite liking the current model, so very little deathball and turtling.
For zvt example, they cannot just turtle behind the pf and missile turrets anymore in late game and needs to move out.
David Kim's thoughts on resourcing in Void - Page 6
| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
Our response to David Kim is outlined in detail here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/483599-in-response-to-david-kim-re-sc2-economy | ||
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ETisME
12255 Posts
I am actually quite liking the current model, so very little deathball and turtling. For zvt example, they cannot just turtle behind the pf and missile turrets anymore in late game and needs to move out. | ||
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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Herecomestrouble
9 Posts
I simply cannot believe the level of misconception a highly positioned Starcraft 2 designer, (David Kim being the most controversial figure in the sc2 scene) has, there's just no way this guy has this thought process, i know that what i just said is ¨too emotional¨ for him (that's another thing i dislike, the fact that people may or may not get ¨emotional¨ isn't necessarily a bad thing... i mean angry people, fine ignore them, but many people build emotions towards this type of games, games that can be so deep that challenge your intelligence and Perception of reality) I feel like he's just not with us, he's simply not aware of what many of us see, what The Starcraft 2 developer team seems to believe is a 2 dimensional ¨2 + 2 = 4¨ kind of mentality, which has no place among highly skilled Starcraft players. I'm not even going to sit here and make a 3 pages post about what blizzard should do, since it will be taken as an ¨egocentric - grandiose - emotional¨ way of viewing things; Therefore i'm just going to remain baffled and confused, Very saddened about the LotV course, i still hope for the best, and until the product is out and live, and 1 year in i'm going to reserve judgment, but oh man this has been a tough ride... | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2471 Posts
On April 22 2015 09:56 Herecomestrouble wrote: I Haven't been involved in the sc2 scene as many others, therefore this is my first real direct post i read from David Kim himself (although i have informed myself quite a lot, watched interviews, spent tons of hours re-watching old podcasts such as ¨state of the game¨ old WoL-HotS discussions and announcments etc. so i'm not blind here) as an open minded and free from other points of views person, (seeing things objectively) this baffles me, challenges my intelligence and my sense of right and wrong. I simply cannot believe the level of misconception a highly positioned Starcraft 2 designer, (David Kim being the most controversial figure in the sc2 scene) has, there's just no way this guy has this thought process, i know that what i just said is ¨too emotional¨ for him (that's another thing i dislike, the fact that people may or may not get ¨emotional¨ isn't necessarily a bad thing... i mean angry people, fine ignore them, but many people build emotions towards this type of games, games that can be so deep that challenge your intelligence and Perception of reality) I feel like he's just not with us, he's simply not aware of what many of us see, what The Starcraft 2 developer team seems to believe is a 2 dimensional ¨2 + 2 = 4¨ kind of mentality, which has no place among highly skilled Starcraft players. I'm not even going to sit here and make a 3 pages post about what blizzard should do, since it will be taken as an ¨egocentric - grandiose - emotional¨ way of viewing things; Therefore i'm just going to remain baffled and confused, Very saddened about the LotV course, i still hope for the best, and until the product is out and live, and 1 year in i'm going to reserve judgment, but oh man this has been a tough ride... It isn't about being "emotional" being bad, he was voicing his appreciation for what was clearly logical reasoning, as opposed to emotional reasoning. Emotional reasoning is "Roaches are way too strong what the fuck!" Whereas logical reasoning presents an unbiased argument, citing facts along the way. David Kim was saluting what clearly was a deep, objective criticism, which is actually fairly rare to receive from a playerbase. I suspect you did not completely understand what was said. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Guess who left his league before finishing the season because it didn't go well for him. | ||
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lfvtavares
Brazil3 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Herecomestrouble
9 Posts
On April 22 2015 13:13 Fleetfeet wrote: It isn't about being "emotional" being bad, he was voicing his appreciation for what was clearly logical reasoning, as opposed to emotional reasoning. Emotional reasoning is "Roaches are way too strong what the fuck!" Whereas logical reasoning presents an unbiased argument, citing facts along the way. David Kim was saluting what clearly was a deep, objective criticism, which is actually fairly rare to receive from a playerbase. I suspect you did not completely understand what was said. That's the least important thought of what i said, it doesn't really matter but it does shows how susceptible to that sort of things they are, there was no reason to explain it in that way at all. But as i said the other points are what bug me the most.. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
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Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2207 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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PostNationalism
35 Posts
KEEP LOTV FAST AND FURIOUS | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
too much rudeness in the thread unfortunately | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On April 22 2015 09:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote: You're not the only one; qxc for example is generally supportive of the current model. However this alternate model is worth testing whether or not it is ultimately more successful than Blizzard's model. Well QXC would be glad to get rid of Avilo when you see how much he struggles to beat him :D I hope someone answered for DK and didn't took the time to properly read DH model or it's saddening that they can be this dumb. Then I remember those guys thought Daedalus and Inferno Pools are worth of competitive play. | ||
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robopork
United States511 Posts
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BroskiDerpman
58 Posts
On April 23 2015 00:14 sAsImre wrote: Well QXC would be glad to get rid of Avilo when you see how much he struggles to beat him :D I hope someone answered for DK and didn't took the time to properly read DH model or it's saddening that they can be this dumb. Then I remember those guys thought Daedalus and Inferno Pools are worth of competitive play. Lol yeah, I am a little doubtful of DK's responses to the community: especially with the approval of those maps haha. | ||
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
I prefer mineral patches to stay as they were in HotS, just lowered from 8 to 6 patches per base. Starting with 9 workers instead of 12 feels like the right amount as well.. but give each player 200 minerals to start with instead of 50. This makes for a more interesting choice on how to spend 200 minerals right away. Save up for an expansion.. or build workers, supply and faster buildings. With 6 mineral patches per base instead of 8, faster expanding might automatically feel more natural. This is the direction I hope to see the LotV economy moving toward.. make what was already good in Starcraft II better. Changing the patch amounts feels too drastic; WoL/HotS casual players could get confused and lose many games before they notice bases are mining faster. Changing patches from 8 to 6 per base seems like an easier change to digest, and still gives reasonable incentive to expand faster. I just hope we don't waste too much time with an economy model that should grow less favorable over time compared to the current model. We need as productive of a beta as possible so the game will feel smooth when it releases, instead of releasing right in the middle of a balancing phase. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1036 Posts
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thetaoptimus
Poland24 Posts
Defending workes should be a priority - rather than keeping large army of units gathered at single point - keeping workers super effective - and quick to rebuild is for now normal. If we would change workers - they automaticly would be more important - more build time = higher reward from increasing number of town halls. The major problem with expansions is keeping less number of workers effective. One base provides much to much maximum income - for some players it is not worth the risk to take larger number of bases. In fact lot's of bases requires protection. IMHO Defensive structures have to be buffed (PF, Cannons, Spines in terms of armour - after upgrade ofc.) Nexus should have psi field to power up cannons and additional defensive ability - recharge shields. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On April 22 2015 06:22 404AlphaSquad wrote: But they also thought the swarmhost was in a good place and exciting in 2013. and now we are 2015 and the unit is undergoing huge changes because most people dislike it. So they may be called "professionals" but they also do mistakes and this is the place where they get the most negative criticism because it has the most caring community. Of course they make mistakes. That does not mean that a community idea brought up three weeks after beta start should be tested by the entire beta community. Things like the warhound removal imo show that Blizzard's designers are willing to admit mistakes. I also think it is safe to assume that the new LotV economy was influenced by Barrin's thread about resources. Jakatak's ideas of unit auto attack scan range also seems to have an impact on LotV. I don't see much evidence for Zealously's assumption that Blizzard is "too conservative". On one hand, they are so progressive that there were many concerns (about the starting worker increase to 12) and on the other hand, they have to look at the big picture, not only at single elements regarding the economy system. | ||
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