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On April 15 2015 02:11 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:15 Trfel wrote:At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch. On April 12 2015 05:03 prplhz wrote:
okay tube who do we lynch then? Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so. If I recall right, you're townreading Tube. Now focus on the bolded. Tube had discussed a theory where if a scum prp knew that Stutters was town and Stutters has the potential to be town given his conviction on prp, what is the likelihood of a scum prp wanting to counterwagon on Stutters to set up a possible mislynch? Now I'll admit I'm a little biased here because following this he tried to pin blame on me for switching off plotspot, but it was he who led that charge. If you think Stutters' case is valid (or at least the presentation is a town trait) do you think there's credence to the possibility that prp is doing what Tube thinks he's trying to do by counterwagoning? Does the bolded look at all opportunistic? That's what I'm driving at. If you think I've missed something, quote it.
I'm rescinding my theory. First, I don't think you're mafia now. Secondly, though I'm having troubles with Prp leading the charge off because there really isn't a good enough risk/reward (Trfel's point). Same goes for you. It's too risky and for basically no reason. Prp can be scum but I don't think he can be scum for this anymore.
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On April 15 2015 03:57 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 21:48 Bourneq wrote:On April 14 2015 20:52 Half the Sky wrote:
Good afternoon Bourneq.
Last night I did a VCA (vote count analysis) starting with the people I felt looked most suspicious. You were one of the most likely though I still need to look into the "less" suspicious individuals, but looking through you, my biggest beef with you was not your activity, but that you appeared to jump reads. The 15 hour gap between you wanting dwarf and Ace (now Shining) gone and then thread sentiment swung plotspot's way made me assess whether you were going along with the crowd when you'd been able to keep your options open by casing him earlier.
I can see where you cased plotspot before and after ranking your scumreads, but Rasputin did point out ONE redeeming quote where you seemed to have original content and thought on prplhz.
If you can answer the questions that I (and I know a few others posed for you) I think it would help greatly. Also if you can clarify where you stand on prplhz given his activity/etc D2, that would also help greatly. Good afternoon! Ill start with me "jumping to reads". My feelings on dwarf day 1 "I really like TBD's explenation of his behaviour but not reading the OP is really reckless and I would like fellow towns to know the rules and the pace of the game. But tbd seems as new as me at this so I will tread carefully here." Basicly I thought I should give TBD some time to give reads and get into the game before I jumped to a conclusion. Next up was Ace because he had not said a word all game. Since I did not have much to go on so early in the game I was concidering making a policy lynch. So when asked if I had to cast my vote right now who would I cast it on I said Ace. There was still plenty of time left of d1 so I was almost certain I would never acctualy cast that vote. As d1 went on and I got to read the cases against plotspot and my own personal reads of him I felt plotspot was the correct lynch. I had been keeping "my options open" because I did not feel I had very strong reads but that my strongest read was on plot. That was my first ever day of mafia so I would be a fool to trust my very first reads to much. So to answer "2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum. " I am not sure what you meant by "read switches". Early on in the day I was getting bad vibes from tbd who was acting pretty suspicious to me. But it was early on in the day so I was going to give him time to redeem himself. He did not do much of anything for the rest of the day while plotspot was making a very bad case for himself and I thought that my reads on him were stronger than thoose I had on tbd. Somewhere in the middle of d1 I am asked who I would vote on if I had to vote that very second. I answered Ace because I did not feel enough information had surfaced on anybody so a policy lynch would be in good order. First, I'm glad you're voting Dwarf. Second, the way I read your list post you basically scummed everysingle person on that list except for Breshke. Later you said you only have 2 scums...Can you update please?
I was not aware of the expression of "nulling" somebody. I would have used that word instead on a few reads. What I was saying in that post was that I was leaning this or the other on that person at that time. Obviously since it was early on in the game I was not sure about anybody.
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On April 15 2015 03:05 Half the Sky wrote:
Shining, you are saying Stutters is only "marginally" better.
Do you mean activity? Because after D2 he picked it up. Can you clarify that?
Yes. And now that I'm fully caught up, I agree. Stutters has stepped it up. He went from marginally better to significantly better. Especially with a post like this. It shows he is thinking about the game critically. I can't lynch him today.
On April 15 2015 02:38 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:15 Trfel wrote:On April 15 2015 00:42 Half the Sky wrote:Rasputin, so you can understand me a bit better, this is the quote I take issue with: On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote:
I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing.
He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia.
I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself. I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads. When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people. The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me. It's relative.... Someone like Holyflare is probably the most aggressive. He'll see one post and hard push that player with apparent 100% confidence. Prplhz isn't a player like that. From reading the thread, the impression that I got was that prplhz was leading and driving things along for most of Day 1. His exact tone and wording isn't always very forceful, but when you look at the ideas that he presents, you can see it. For example, here is the way he treated the vote switch to Stutters695 on Day 1. Most people consider this progression suspicious. On April 12 2015 04:37 prplhz wrote:
okay i tentatively don't want to lynch plotspot anyway lol
can we lynch soren or stutters? Here is the first post he makes. I believe that he is the first player to suggest leaving the plotspot lynch (I'm not going to go back tons of pages to double check, but he is at least one of the first). At this point, the vote count was very heavily in favor of lynching plotspot (7 on plotspot, 0 on Stutters695). I know that the way he phrases it is a request, but this also makes some sense, since without the support of others he can't actually change the lynch. At this time, Half the Sky is the only person in the thread, and she refuses to switch, so prplhz drops it. Prplhz also posts his explanation for why he would prefer to lynch Stutters695 over plotspot, and the way he arrived at this read feels towny enough (though that's an issue for another day). At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch. On April 12 2015 05:03 prplhz wrote:
okay tube who do we lynch then? Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so. Prplhz isn't posting huge walls of text or screaming with all caps, but he clearly made a decision and put effort into getting people's attention and making them listen to him. In some of his posts, his tone felt very wishy-washy, however if you look at the consistency of his play, and the context for when he said what he said, he's actually very solid in his decision. Despite the way he asked players to switch votes and seemed willing to follow them wherever, that isn't what he did, and it's obvious that prplhz was leading the thread through this period. Were plotspot scum, I could see an argument being made for prplhz being scum because of these actions. However, with a flipped plotspot, these actions aren't inherently scummy, and I feel that they are consistent with the rest of prplhz's play in this game. This is one example, but I feel that prplhz played a leading role throughout Day 1. I'm used to prplhz playing a more reserved role; while he always participates in the thread, this is the first time I have seen him consistently leading. And that's why he is a confident townread. While I understand where you're coming from, the part in green I absolutely disagree about. It can be fine, but again prpl didn't care about it being me getting lynched. He ignored my reasoning for voting plot, which was a direct response to his question. If you're going to try and honestly lynch scum, you'd think he'd respond to that in sone fashion. You'd also think he would try to stick around for the deadline but he wasn't really concerned with who got lynched. If plot dies, he's gets credit for the town read and switching before and if I die, it's a simple "well he posted so little I thought he was a good lynch" You don't start a counter wagon so close to the deadline then go afk if he really believed plot was town. He didn't really care about saving him, he didn't really care who got lynched d1 and he certainly doesn't care who gets lynched today. That's not town.
Also I'm phone posting from work so bare with me.
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meh i don't really know what prp is doing this day phase :/ i don't mind his EoD behavior except AFKing the lynch. like basically all of day 1 still looks good to me with that exception?
but then there's just the blah where he doesn't seem to have much of an opinion about today's lynch at all. like it almost seems like he's got the lynch down to between bourneq and tbd and is using townreading tbd as an excuse to lynch bourne, when there's tons more players in this game and 3 scum besides -_-
i dunnae. i'd lynch him before players like jjb, hts and truffle at this point (and prob bresh though he's on my list to look at too right now lol ><) but his day 1 makes me hesitant
i don't see this "overwhelmed" townie argument stutters >< he's had over 72 hours to get caught up, and his own excuse was just basically he didn't want to play lol >< at least as i understood it
and that's okay?
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If you guys won't lynch prpl today, I'll be voting TBD. Prpl is absolutely the best lynch, but I think The Shining still has the potential to be read better. You really should vote prpl for great justice though.
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I have always looked closely on prplhz but when I made a case against him I was acused of OMGUS so I dont think I would be the best person to make a good case against him. Comparing his filter to Dwarfs made me settle on a dwarf lynch seeing dwarf has contributed nothing.
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On April 15 2015 02:38 Stutters695 wrote:+ Show Spoiler [about Prplhz] +On April 15 2015 01:15 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:42 Half the Sky wrote:Rasputin, so you can understand me a bit better, this is the quote I take issue with: On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote:
I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing.
He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia.
I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself. I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads. When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people. The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me. It's relative.... Someone like Holyflare is probably the most aggressive. He'll see one post and hard push that player with apparent 100% confidence. Prplhz isn't a player like that. From reading the thread, the impression that I got was that prplhz was leading and driving things along for most of Day 1. His exact tone and wording isn't always very forceful, but when you look at the ideas that he presents, you can see it. For example, here is the way he treated the vote switch to Stutters695 on Day 1. Most people consider this progression suspicious. Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 04:37 prplhz wrote:
okay i tentatively don't want to lynch plotspot anyway lol
can we lynch soren or stutters? Here is the first post he makes. I believe that he is the first player to suggest leaving the plotspot lynch (I'm not going to go back tons of pages to double check, but he is at least one of the first). At this point, the vote count was very heavily in favor of lynching plotspot (7 on plotspot, 0 on Stutters695). I know that the way he phrases it is a request, but this also makes some sense, since without the support of others he can't actually change the lynch. At this time, Half the Sky is the only person in the thread, and she refuses to switch, so prplhz drops it. Prplhz also posts his explanation for why he would prefer to lynch Stutters695 over plotspot, and the way he arrived at this read feels towny enough (though that's an issue for another day). At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch. Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so. Prplhz isn't posting huge walls of text or screaming with all caps, but he clearly made a decision and put effort into getting people's attention and making them listen to him. In some of his posts, his tone felt very wishy-washy, however if you look at the consistency of his play, and the context for when he said what he said, he's actually very solid in his decision. Despite the way he asked players to switch votes and seemed willing to follow them wherever, that isn't what he did, and it's obvious that prplhz was leading the thread through this period. Were plotspot scum, I could see an argument being made for prplhz being scum because of these actions. However, with a flipped plotspot, these actions aren't inherently scummy, and I feel that they are consistent with the rest of prplhz's play in this game. This is one example, but I feel that prplhz played a leading role throughout Day 1. I'm used to prplhz playing a more reserved role; while he always participates in the thread, this is the first time I have seen him consistently leading. And that's why he is a confident townread. While I understand where you're coming from, the part in green I absolutely disagree about. It can be fine, but again prpl didn't care about it being me getting lynched. He ignored my reasoning for voting plot, which was a direct response to his question. If you're going to try and honestly lynch scum, you'd think he'd respond to that in sone fashion. You'd also think he would try to stick around for the deadline but he wasn't really concerned with who got lynched. If plot dies, he's gets credit for the town read and switching before and if I die, it's a simple "well he posted so little I thought he was a good lynch" You don't start a counter wagon so close to the deadline then go afk if he really believed plot was town. He didn't really care about saving him, he didn't really care who got lynched d1 and he certainly doesn't care who gets lynched today. That's not town.
I can see it both ways. That's pretty damning. But then I think about how I thought about Plotspot. He reminded me of my first game and how I acted before I was mlynched. My reasoning to leaving Plot was simply to get another day with him. He certainly wasn't being very towny. And I think town!Prplhz could have felt it wasn't going to be a big enough loss to justify more effort.
My level of town protecting is directly proportionate to how towny I think that person is. Isn't yours?
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On April 15 2015 03:57 Stutters695 wrote:
Anyone? I don't like the Shining lynch as he comes off being overwhelmed by replacing in. What he has posted looks pretty solid to me and I think if we give him another day we'll be able to decide his alignment.
Agreed. It's basically a policy lynch. If you're going to policy lynch, why not Dwarf???
He comes back and makes an excuse? I get homework/life gets in the way but...
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shining, talk to me about bresh?
there's not a ton to say about tbd...he's a policy lynch through and through unless y'all are seeing codes in his posts somewhere
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On April 15 2015 04:19 rsoultin wrote:
meh i don't really know what prp is doing this day phase :/ i don't mind his EoD behavior except AFKing the lynch. like basically all of day 1 still looks good to me with that exception?
but then there's just the blah where he doesn't seem to have much of an opinion about today's lynch at all. like it almost seems like he's got the lynch down to between bourneq and tbd and is using townreading tbd as an excuse to lynch bourne, when there's tons more players in this game and 3 scum besides -_-
i dunnae. i'd lynch him before players like jjb, hts and truffle at this point (and prob bresh though he's on my list to look at too right now lol ><) but his day 1 makes me hesitant
i don't see this "overwhelmed" townie argument stutters >< he's had over 72 hours to get caught up, and his own excuse was just basically he didn't want to play lol >< at least as i understood it
and that's okay?
Meh I don't like hiding behind excuses. But to be more accurate, I didn't have time to play because fun things kept coming up during my days off that I couldn't say no to. I'm here right now and I'm at work on my phone posting.
And this is my first time replacing. I am slightly overwhelmed. But I am trying here. And I'm telling you, boldly, that lynching me is a huge mistake for town.
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On April 15 2015 04:24 rsoultin wrote:
shining, talk to me about bresh?
there's not a ton to say about tbd...he's a policy lynch through and through unless y'all are seeing codes in his posts somewhere
Don't get me started.
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On April 15 2015 04:26 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 04:19 rsoultin wrote:
meh i don't really know what prp is doing this day phase :/ i don't mind his EoD behavior except AFKing the lynch. like basically all of day 1 still looks good to me with that exception?
but then there's just the blah where he doesn't seem to have much of an opinion about today's lynch at all. like it almost seems like he's got the lynch down to between bourneq and tbd and is using townreading tbd as an excuse to lynch bourne, when there's tons more players in this game and 3 scum besides -_-
i dunnae. i'd lynch him before players like jjb, hts and truffle at this point (and prob bresh though he's on my list to look at too right now lol ><) but his day 1 makes me hesitant
i don't see this "overwhelmed" townie argument stutters >< he's had over 72 hours to get caught up, and his own excuse was just basically he didn't want to play lol >< at least as i understood it
and that's okay? Meh I don't like hiding behind excuses. But to be more accurate, I didn't have time to play because fun things kept coming up during my days off that I couldn't say no to. I'm here right now and I'm at work on my phone posting. And this is my first time replacing. I am slightly overwhelmed. But I am trying here. And I'm telling you, boldly, that lynching me is a huge mistake for town.
heh, it's kinda terrible that i half-believe you just because that is a terrible excuse xP but i'm really not interested in you insisting you're town, for obvious reasons, so talk to me about your scumreads
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On April 15 2015 04:28 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 04:24 rsoultin wrote:
shining, talk to me about bresh?
there's not a ton to say about tbd...he's a policy lynch through and through unless y'all are seeing codes in his posts somewhere Don't get me started.
-sits on tube's head-
lol i don't need alien codes on mayan obelisks right now tube lol if it's something real, though, speak up -_-
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That kinda hurt me in my feelings.
Anyway, after you talk to Shining and get what you need, I'd like to of course talk to you about not voting shining.
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On April 15 2015 04:34 Tubesock wrote:
That kinda hurt me in my feelings.
Anyway, after you talk to Shining and get what you need, I'd like to of course talk to you about not voting shining.
meh -_- sorry, i don't mean that i don't want to hear what you think
my point was mainly that i don't know how anyone gets anything out of dwarf's posts except maybe a tone read. if i vote him today it's because i'm not seeing scum and that's it
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On April 15 2015 04:24 rsoultin wrote:
shining, talk to me about bresh?
there's not a ton to say about tbd...he's a policy lynch through and through unless y'all are seeing codes in his posts somewhere
Aside from what I said about him afking his "placeholder" vote on me for sleep, even though he hasn't so much as acknowledged my presence beforehand? See, others like you and Trfel have looked into me and questioned my activity. I couldn't find myself anywhere in his filter until the vote. It just feels like an effortless vote that can be defended as policy lynch.
Also, his filter is very setup-centric and role centric. I can quote examples if asked but I'm on a phone. But time and again I see him talking about roles. Picking at Stutters possible bread crumb post. It feels less like genuine game solving and more like blue fishing.
Also I tried to find some original thoughts in his filter. There are a lot of questioning of others' reads, then sheeping those. His possible scum list is basically Trfels.
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On April 14 2015 22:04 Bourneq wrote:
Prplhz activity in d2 is really poor. He has been consistent in 2 things, defending dwarf and trying to lynch the 1 person I can be absolut sure is town. D2 he seems to be sure about his scum read on stutters yet pushes a lynch on me instead.
meh this is like the only smart thing bourne has posted since the beginning of n1
objectively i agree that prp's done almost jack all, and ignoring the hypocrisy of bourneq criticizing someone else's activity lol >< his statements are either really obvious or unverifiable...the one good thing is the last sentence
also finished rereading tube...i suppose he could be scum, hts, if only because i'm used to him pushing things more than he has been, but there are so many good insights in his filter that i can't see myself wanting to lynch him over players like bourne/tbd/shining/prp xP
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On April 15 2015 04:29 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 04:26 The Shining wrote:On April 15 2015 04:19 rsoultin wrote:
meh i don't really know what prp is doing this day phase :/ i don't mind his EoD behavior except AFKing the lynch. like basically all of day 1 still looks good to me with that exception?
but then there's just the blah where he doesn't seem to have much of an opinion about today's lynch at all. like it almost seems like he's got the lynch down to between bourneq and tbd and is using townreading tbd as an excuse to lynch bourne, when there's tons more players in this game and 3 scum besides -_-
i dunnae. i'd lynch him before players like jjb, hts and truffle at this point (and prob bresh though he's on my list to look at too right now lol ><) but his day 1 makes me hesitant
i don't see this "overwhelmed" townie argument stutters >< he's had over 72 hours to get caught up, and his own excuse was just basically he didn't want to play lol >< at least as i understood it
and that's okay? Meh I don't like hiding behind excuses. But to be more accurate, I didn't have time to play because fun things kept coming up during my days off that I couldn't say no to. I'm here right now and I'm at work on my phone posting. And this is my first time replacing. I am slightly overwhelmed. But I am trying here. And I'm telling you, boldly, that lynching me is a huge mistake for town. heh, it's kinda terrible that i half-believe you just because that is a terrible excuse xP but i'm really not interested in you insisting you're town, for obvious reasons, so talk to me about your scumreads
I am. Unfortunately I suck at phone posting. If I'm lucky, I can sneak my tablet out 30 mins before EoD.
While we're talking, I see you think I've got a pretty good chance of flipping scum. You also see Dwarf as a plynch, nothing more.
Besides me, if you could lynch someone right now, who would it be?
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On April 15 2015 04:41 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 04:24 rsoultin wrote:
shining, talk to me about bresh?
there's not a ton to say about tbd...he's a policy lynch through and through unless y'all are seeing codes in his posts somewhere Aside from what I said about him afking his "placeholder" vote on me for sleep, even though he hasn't so much as acknowledged my presence beforehand? See, others like you and Trfel have looked into me and questioned my activity. I couldn't find myself anywhere in his filter until the vote. It just feels like an effortless vote that can be defended as policy lynch. Also, his filter is very setup-centric and role centric. I can quote examples if asked but I'm on a phone. But time and again I see him talking about roles. Picking at Stutters possible bread crumb post. It feels less like genuine game solving and more like blue fishing. Also I tried to find some original thoughts in his filter. There are a lot of questioning of others' reads, then sheeping those. His possible scum list is basically Trfels.
eh i've gone back and forth on him a lot this game. his filter is the next one i'm hitting. i like that he's reconsidered some of his reads, but it's usually at my prompting, too, so there's that -_- i don't remember much from him on day 2 either?
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I'm back again, and this time I'm here until EoD.
I'm not lynching Tubesock. No way.
Dwarf is a policy lynch for me.
I'm still extremely uncomfortable with the manner of prp's reads. Even with the argument that his actions EoD don't make him scum. The point Stutters keeps bringing up about bailing EoD for a run is irksome. A family/wife/whatever emergency is one thing, but...
grrrrrrr.....game is hard.
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EPT
