EPTOn April 15 2015 04:20 Tubesock wrote:
I can see it both ways. That's pretty damning. But then I think about how I thought about Plotspot. He reminded me of my first game and how I acted before I was mlynched. My reasoning to leaving Plot was simply to get another day with him. He certainly wasn't being very towny. And I think town!Prplhz could have felt it wasn't going to be a big enough loss to justify more effort.
My level of town protecting is directly proportionate to how towny I think that person is. Isn't yours?
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On April 15 2015 02:38 Stutters695 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [about Prplhz] +
While I understand where you're coming from, the part in green I absolutely disagree about. It can be fine, but again prpl didn't care about it being me getting lynched. He ignored my reasoning for voting plot, which was a direct response to his question. If you're going to try and honestly lynch scum, you'd think he'd respond to that in sone fashion. You'd also think he would try to stick around for the deadline but he wasn't really concerned with who got lynched. If plot dies, he's gets credit for the town read and switching before and if I die, it's a simple "well he posted so little I thought he was a good lynch"
You don't start a counter wagon so close to the deadline then go afk if he really believed plot was town. He didn't really care about saving him, he didn't really care who got lynched d1 and he certainly doesn't care who gets lynched today. That's not town.
+ Show Spoiler [about Prplhz] +
On April 15 2015 01:15 Trfel wrote:
Someone like Holyflare is probably the most aggressive. He'll see one post and hard push that player with apparent 100% confidence. Prplhz isn't a player like that. From reading the thread, the impression that I got was that prplhz was leading and driving things along for most of Day 1. His exact tone and wording isn't always very forceful, but when you look at the ideas that he presents, you can see it.
For example, here is the way he treated the vote switch to Stutters695 on Day 1. Most people consider this progression suspicious.
Prplhz also posts his explanation for why he would prefer to lynch Stutters695 over plotspot, and the way he arrived at this read feels towny enough (though that's an issue for another day).
At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch.Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so.
Prplhz isn't posting huge walls of text or screaming with all caps, but he clearly made a decision and put effort into getting people's attention and making them listen to him. In some of his posts, his tone felt very wishy-washy, however if you look at the consistency of his play, and the context for when he said what he said, he's actually very solid in his decision. Despite the way he asked players to switch votes and seemed willing to follow them wherever, that isn't what he did, and it's obvious that prplhz was leading the thread through this period.
Were plotspot scum, I could see an argument being made for prplhz being scum because of these actions. However, with a flipped plotspot, these actions aren't inherently scummy, and I feel that they are consistent with the rest of prplhz's play in this game.
This is one example, but I feel that prplhz played a leading role throughout Day 1. I'm used to prplhz playing a more reserved role; while he always participates in the thread, this is the first time I have seen him consistently leading. And that's why he is a confident townread.
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It's relative....On April 15 2015 00:42 Half the Sky wrote:
Rasputin, so you can understand me a bit better, this is the quote I take issue with:
I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads.
When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people.
The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me.
Rasputin, so you can understand me a bit better, this is the quote I take issue with:
On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote:
I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing.
He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia.
I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself.
I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing.
He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia.
I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself.
I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads.
When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people.
The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me.
Someone like Holyflare is probably the most aggressive. He'll see one post and hard push that player with apparent 100% confidence. Prplhz isn't a player like that. From reading the thread, the impression that I got was that prplhz was leading and driving things along for most of Day 1. His exact tone and wording isn't always very forceful, but when you look at the ideas that he presents, you can see it.
For example, here is the way he treated the vote switch to Stutters695 on Day 1. Most people consider this progression suspicious.
Show nested quote +
Here is the first post he makes. I believe that he is the first player to suggest leaving the plotspot lynch (I'm not going to go back tons of pages to double check, but he is at least one of the first). At this point, the vote count was very heavily in favor of lynching plotspot (7 on plotspot, 0 on Stutters695). I know that the way he phrases it is a request, but this also makes some sense, since without the support of others he can't actually change the lynch. At this time, Half the Sky is the only person in the thread, and she refuses to switch, so prplhz drops it. On April 12 2015 04:37 prplhz wrote:
okay i tentatively don't want to lynch plotspot anyway lol
can we lynch soren or stutters?
okay i tentatively don't want to lynch plotspot anyway lol
can we lynch soren or stutters?
Prplhz also posts his explanation for why he would prefer to lynch Stutters695 over plotspot, and the way he arrived at this read feels towny enough (though that's an issue for another day).
At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch.Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so.
Prplhz isn't posting huge walls of text or screaming with all caps, but he clearly made a decision and put effort into getting people's attention and making them listen to him. In some of his posts, his tone felt very wishy-washy, however if you look at the consistency of his play, and the context for when he said what he said, he's actually very solid in his decision. Despite the way he asked players to switch votes and seemed willing to follow them wherever, that isn't what he did, and it's obvious that prplhz was leading the thread through this period.
Were plotspot scum, I could see an argument being made for prplhz being scum because of these actions. However, with a flipped plotspot, these actions aren't inherently scummy, and I feel that they are consistent with the rest of prplhz's play in this game.
This is one example, but I feel that prplhz played a leading role throughout Day 1. I'm used to prplhz playing a more reserved role; while he always participates in the thread, this is the first time I have seen him consistently leading. And that's why he is a confident townread.
While I understand where you're coming from, the part in green I absolutely disagree about. It can be fine, but again prpl didn't care about it being me getting lynched. He ignored my reasoning for voting plot, which was a direct response to his question. If you're going to try and honestly lynch scum, you'd think he'd respond to that in sone fashion. You'd also think he would try to stick around for the deadline but he wasn't really concerned with who got lynched. If plot dies, he's gets credit for the town read and switching before and if I die, it's a simple "well he posted so little I thought he was a good lynch"
You don't start a counter wagon so close to the deadline then go afk if he really believed plot was town. He didn't really care about saving him, he didn't really care who got lynched d1 and he certainly doesn't care who gets lynched today. That's not town.
I can see it both ways. That's pretty damning. But then I think about how I thought about Plotspot. He reminded me of my first game and how I acted before I was mlynched. My reasoning to leaving Plot was simply to get another day with him. He certainly wasn't being very towny. And I think town!Prplhz could have felt it wasn't going to be a big enough loss to justify more effort.
My level of town protecting is directly proportionate to how towny I think that person is. Isn't yours?
If you think someone is town enough to swing a wagon hours before the lynch, you have a justifiable alternative generally considering you've had 48 hours to think about it. If all you do is half ass try to change it as town, you're providing mafia with the opportunity to lynch whoever they want really easily.
