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On April 14 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:17 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 05:09 Tubesock wrote:On April 14 2015 05:03 Stutters695 wrote:
I would disagree with that being an answer.
Anyways, until I think of a better way to word that what do you think about prpl? Are you being serious about asking Trfel why he changed his "scum read" on his slot he replaced into? I'm missing something. Reactions dawg. Just want to see what he'd say. Honestly, I've seen people make similar mistakes replacing in (I almost wrote a case on myself in WLIIA way back in the day after replacing in). Trfel: pg14 was basically a decade ago, do you disagree with my assessment? What do you make of HtS's case on you? lol, this push is based on what, a joke scumclaim and a case against truffle's slot based on nothing truffle has done? xP you'd do better to provide the evidence supporting your metaread on prp
Meta reads aren't as simple as "scum prpl posts xyz as scum but only xy as town" unless the person is bad and prpl isn't that bad.
Take roulette as an example: pages and pages of one liners and occasionally a random vote. However, he'll drop posts like his case (another on p1 and another on p2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/414632-roulette-mini-mafia?user=prplhz&page=4. That is not existent here. It's still early, so that enough isn't alone, but read the questions he asks compared to here. His questions show a clear lines of thought about the subject of his posts.
This occurs in Storm 2 as well. Less so on the scum hunting side but you can tell who he thinks is town, how he's leaning on certain people (not wanting to lynch robik for example).
Compare that to here: the specifics are lacking. He corrects Onegu, points out he's not paying attention and asks if he'll put effort into the game. Nothing about why he's scum (such as misrepresenting plot to try and lynch him, just basic matter of fact info.
When he wants people to vote Bourneq, again it's for not paying attention/posting unless prodded. Nothing that actually establishes why scum Bourn would do that until later and then it's just "scum don't want to contribute." Which would be cool, except as soon as Bourneq starts posting more he drops it despite not really pushing for his lynch. Then HtS (off of one post)whom he drops for Plot and throws together a good case on him. He actually asks about him, asks for our input on what we think of Plot, I answer which he ignores and then pushes me on for basically what he pushed Bourneq for. Then drops me for meta reasons, but won't elaborate at all.
In Titanic it's more of the same. He "has a hard time" establishing actual scum reads, while in his town games he's much more sure of himself.
Phone posting so I can pull up specifics later, but if you read just his filter in those games you'll see what I mean.
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On April 12 2015 05:54 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 05:46 Onegu wrote:
So we have a scum claim and you dummies don't want to lynch the shit out of him!?
Please tell me what I am missing? Or is it just that you guys are being bad. Where is your vote again?
He set his vote shortly after that. He forgot to change it (drugs presumably)
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dwarf is probably town and there's a ton of people i'll lynch before him.
i didn't drop you stutters? lol?
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On April 14 2015 08:41 prplhz wrote:
dwarf is probably town and there's a ton of people i'll lynch before him.
i didn't drop you stutters? lol?
So no change? We're halfway through Day 2. Has he done anything towny?
Who are the ton you'd lynch before him? aside from what Bourneq and Stutters?
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So I'm trying to figure out stutters because most people are scumming him and I wasn't. I can take two conclusion from what he's done so far.
1. He is scum and not really trying. This is evident in his first read on bresh. His posting is rather small for someone who has played and knows the game. He seems to focus on himself and people talking to him over others His largest case is on prp, the guy who got the train started for him D1.
2. He is town and is going for a low content/high quality kind of game. Is probing and looking for reactions. His first read on Bresh didn't have much right? He was probably looking for a reaction there and didn't like the reaction, which is evident in his later post on him (i'll quote after this). He sets a trap for Trf. He doesn't really defend himself (I guess he's confident he won't get lynched?) but instead focuses on figuring people out in this game.
The more I read his filter, the more I believe in #2.
IF THIS IS TRUE, than I'm much more suspicious of the people on his train: tube, hts , and prp. With his low content posts, he appears to be an easy target. You could call it a trap? And guess what? All three were on my lists I drew up earlier. hts and prp drew red flags from me earlier. This also helps make the NK make more sense.
Looks like I know where to look to find some scum lol
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On April 14 2015 08:37 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:On April 14 2015 05:17 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 05:09 Tubesock wrote:On April 14 2015 05:03 Stutters695 wrote:
I would disagree with that being an answer.
Anyways, until I think of a better way to word that what do you think about prpl? Are you being serious about asking Trfel why he changed his "scum read" on his slot he replaced into? I'm missing something. Reactions dawg. Just want to see what he'd say. Honestly, I've seen people make similar mistakes replacing in (I almost wrote a case on myself in WLIIA way back in the day after replacing in). Trfel: pg14 was basically a decade ago, do you disagree with my assessment? What do you make of HtS's case on you? lol, this push is based on what, a joke scumclaim and a case against truffle's slot based on nothing truffle has done? xP you'd do better to provide the evidence supporting your metaread on prp Meta reads aren't as simple as "scum prpl posts xyz as scum but only xy as town" unless the person is bad and prpl isn't that bad. Take roulette as an example: pages and pages of one liners and occasionally a random vote. However, he'll drop posts like his case (another on p1 and another on p2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/414632-roulette-mini-mafia?user=prplhz&page=4. That is not existent here. It's still early, so that enough isn't alone, but read the questions he asks compared to here. His questions show a clear lines of thought about the subject of his posts. This occurs in Storm 2 as well. Less so on the scum hunting side but you can tell who he thinks is town, how he's leaning on certain people (not wanting to lynch robik for example). Compare that to here: the specifics are lacking. He corrects Onegu, points out he's not paying attention and asks if he'll put effort into the game. Nothing about why he's scum (such as misrepresenting plot to try and lynch him, just basic matter of fact info. When he wants people to vote Bourneq, again it's for not paying attention/posting unless prodded. Nothing that actually establishes why scum Bourn would do that until later and then it's just "scum don't want to contribute." Which would be cool, except as soon as Bourneq starts posting more he drops it despite not really pushing for his lynch. Then HtS (off of one post)whom he drops for Plot and throws together a good case on him. He actually asks about him, asks for our input on what we think of Plot, I answer which he ignores and then pushes me on for basically what he pushed Bourneq for. Then drops me for meta reasons, but won't elaborate at all. In Titanic it's more of the same. He "has a hard time" establishing actual scum reads, while in his town games he's much more sure of himself. Phone posting so I can pull up specifics later, but if you read just his filter in those games you'll see what I mean.
the distinction, if it exists, is pretty subtle lol >< and to be quite frank with you, from having actually played with him as scum in titanic, i'm inclined to trust my own judgment over yours in terms of what is and isn't his scum play
my judgment has been pretty good so far in that respect
no offense to prp, he isn't exactly the most dazzling player as either alignment, but i got the sense he was really stepping up trying to get the thread going in the absence of town leaders from his early play, which i see no need for him to do if he's scum? maybe the specifics will help me understand what you're saying more
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On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now
And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me.
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On April 14 2015 08:46 jarjarbinks wrote:
So I'm trying to figure out stutters because most people are scumming him and I wasn't. I can take two conclusion from what he's done so far.
1. He is scum and not really trying. This is evident in his first read on bresh. His posting is rather small for someone who has played and knows the game. He seems to focus on himself and people talking to him over others His largest case is on prp, the guy who got the train started for him D1.
2. He is town and is going for a low content/high quality kind of game. Is probing and looking for reactions. His first read on Bresh didn't have much right? He was probably looking for a reaction there and didn't like the reaction, which is evident in his later post on him (i'll quote after this). He sets a trap for Trf. He doesn't really defend himself (I guess he's confident he won't get lynched?) but instead focuses on figuring people out in this game.
The more I read his filter, the more I believe in #2.
IF THIS IS TRUE, than I'm much more suspicious of the people on his train: tube, hts , and prp. With his low content posts, he appears to be an easy target. You could call it a trap? And guess what? All three were on my lists I drew up earlier. hts and prp drew red flags from me earlier. This also helps make the NK make more sense.
Looks like I know where to look to find some scum lol
I legit have no idea, are you JarJarDinks as well from Basterd Mini?
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On April 14 2015 08:53 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me.
i am giving you pause to actually play the game.
if you're town you had a 1 page lazy disinterested filter on d1. come d2 i say "i might not be right so i'll give you pause to actually start playing". there's nothing to interact with you about as i don't believe you've actually done anything yet. the interaction you want is "tell me the things you saw in my filter that you expect me to do if i'm scum and the things you expect me to do if i'm town" and that's not happening for obvious reasons.
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On April 14 2015 08:59 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:53 Stutters695 wrote:On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me. i am giving you pause to actually play the game. if you're town you had a 1 page lazy disinterested filter on d1. come d2 i say "i might not be right so i'll give you pause to actually start playing". there's nothing to interact with you about as i don't believe you've actually done anything yet. the interaction you want is "tell me the things you saw in my filter that you expect me to do if i'm scum and the things you expect me to do if i'm town" and that's not happening for obvious reasons.
Prp, when are you going to reevaluate Dwarf? When does he need to actually start playing this game if he's town?
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i'm going to reevaluate dwarf now
still town
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Hmm so besides the whole "I'm not sure if she really thought stutters was the better lynch", HTS has some pretty good analysis in her filter. I don't remember her being this active when she was scum in my only game with her either.
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On April 14 2015 08:58 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:46 jarjarbinks wrote:
So I'm trying to figure out stutters because most people are scumming him and I wasn't. I can take two conclusion from what he's done so far.
1. He is scum and not really trying. This is evident in his first read on bresh. His posting is rather small for someone who has played and knows the game. He seems to focus on himself and people talking to him over others His largest case is on prp, the guy who got the train started for him D1.
2. He is town and is going for a low content/high quality kind of game. Is probing and looking for reactions. His first read on Bresh didn't have much right? He was probably looking for a reaction there and didn't like the reaction, which is evident in his later post on him (i'll quote after this). He sets a trap for Trf. He doesn't really defend himself (I guess he's confident he won't get lynched?) but instead focuses on figuring people out in this game.
The more I read his filter, the more I believe in #2.
IF THIS IS TRUE, than I'm much more suspicious of the people on his train: tube, hts , and prp. With his low content posts, he appears to be an easy target. You could call it a trap? And guess what? All three were on my lists I drew up earlier. hts and prp drew red flags from me earlier. This also helps make the NK make more sense.
Looks like I know where to look to find some scum lol I legit have no idea, are you JarJarDinks as well from Basterd Mini?
Nope. Just the straight up Gungan lol My last game was as scum in a newbie game...I'm not sure who you check past games... Rso, Shining, and Trf were in it though.
I think I had a different student game with Rso, Trf, and Shining as well if that helps
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Bourneq - 2 of 3
On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote:
Final vote count:
TheBloodyDwarf (1): Soren333, Breshke, Tubesock, The Shining, Tubesock
Breshke (0): Onegu
The Shining (1): plotspot
Bourneq (0): prplhz
plotspot (7): Onegu, Breshke, rsoultin, prplhz, Bourneq, Soren333, Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Onegu
prplhz (0): TheBloodyDwarf
Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky
Overview
From the looks of voting, Bourneq had voted once all of D1 on plotspot as other players piled up on him. On page 40 of the thread, he wants to vote Ace before voting plotspot, after Rasputin asked him why he wasn't voting Dwarf.
To put his actions into the proper context, I asked him very early game his experience in mafia and he'd responded (paraphrasing) that whilst he had watched some video mafia, this was his first ever time playing it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=8#147
Read Progression
After making some initial comments on Ace, Onegu and plotspot, he starts off by discussing Dwarf as scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=322&topic_id=480171
He supports his points (when asked) why Dwarf is scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#342
My initial read on Bourneq was scum but Bourneq replies with a plausible explanation for why he's newb town:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#344
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#349
The only problem here is that newb scum could still fake that explanation and after prompting him to think about people's alignment in my initial scumread, let's see if he takes that to heart.
His first mass list post has the following as scum reads:
JJB as possibly mafia
Ace possibly mafia or a quiet town not contributing
prp as looking "more and more" scum to him
plotspot "screaming" scum to him
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=28#541
When challenged on this, he furthers his points on plotspot as mafia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=28#559
First potential sign of trouble - policy lynch over scum lynch
He suggests that if he had to vote "right now" it'd be Ace for inactivity. This was after he hard scummed plotspot.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=31#614
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#625
THIRTEEN MINUTES LATER (per timestamp) prp asks him "who is most likely to be scum" - he replies Bloody Dwarf
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#627
prp calls attention this (page 33) whilst he's AFK, and Rasputin pinged him prior.
About fifteen hours later - he re-cases plotspot and ultimately votes him.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=39#767
That said, it's apparent that he has jumped from scumread to scumread.
Let's see what happened in those 15 hours when Bourneq was afk. Aside from him getting pinged.
1 Breshke votes plotspot (page 34).
2 2h later Shining replaces Ace - may lend some credence to not voting Ace's slot.
3 rsoultin and prplhz both vote plotspot (page 35)
4 Tube votes TBD. (page 37) But later comtemplates a switch to plotspot.
So overall we have a general shift towards plotspot, and to re-emphasize his explanation:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=40#789
On April 11 2015 23:30 Bourneq wrote:
My reasoning at the time that if Ace is not a mafia scared of posting or just flat out staying out of the game as a tactic, then he is at least to most useless town. Since he is not posting and thus not contributing anything then even if he was town it would not be a massive loss for us since he is not helping anyway.
That being said I would wrather lynch somebody we can say is the most likely mafia and I will not be voting ace today. In fact,
##Vote Plotspot
There are a few issues with this post. On one hand he discusses Ace for being useless, 15 hours later, and well after Ace replaced out. This would imply that he's out of touch with the thread right?
Problem is, if he's out of touch with the thread, he should be voting his most likely scumread, and that's The Bloody Dwarf before he AFKed...
Although he's cased plotspot before, he responded with TBD as the most scummy. What makes this even worse is that when Stutters queried him on having too many scumreads, he gives a noncomittal if not evasive answer to Stutters on the two people he'd lynch. I'd checked the context and it makes me think that he's trying to keep his options open here and vote where the thread is swinging.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#622
On April 11 2015 05:12 Bourneq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 05:07 Stutters695 wrote:
Bourneq: You listed myself, onegu, rsoultin, prpl, jarjar, ace and Bloody as null/scummy. That's obviously too many people to be scum and we can only lynch one today. Ignore Ace (assume he's dead either way for this question), who do you lynch today and what makes them scum?
Anyone else here? I only count 2 people I put as scum. I said I was leaning towards this or that on some people but I did not list them as scum.
Bourneq proceeds to hang around at EoD. When we talk about Stutters, he does not switch. No posting since post-lynch.
Summary:
1 Open-ended (quoted) answer to Stutters on scum reads. I interpret this as keeping options open.
2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum.
3 Vote on plotspot occurred after thread sentiment swung plotspot's way
I feel these are all scum traits/behaviour, not considering the inactivity.
I also feel something is not adding up in the jump from TBD as "most likely scumread" to plotspot as "most likely scumread" and taking the context of progression, it looks too much like #1 to me.
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student V, jjb, was the one you were tracker in xP
i will never forget student V...it lives on in infamy! -_-
dude, prp...i really do not understand the unwavering townread on dwarf? even giving him a ton of slack as a newbie he's just...blah
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On April 14 2015 08:59 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:53 Stutters695 wrote:On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me. i am giving you pause to actually play the game. if you're town you had a 1 page lazy disinterested filter on d1. come d2 i say "i might not be right so i'll give you pause to actually start playing". there's nothing to interact with you about as i don't believe you've actually done anything yet. the interaction you want is "tell me the things you saw in my filter that you expect me to do if i'm scum and the things you expect me to do if i'm town" and that's not happening for obvious reasons.
Well I wanted to see if you'd say it, but I'm incredibly disinterested day 1 basically all the time. Since you claimed to read my meta, that should have been obvious (exceptions being Basterd [excited for first time scum] and Les Mis[i think, there was one I was actively trying to change it]).
The game moves too fast and there isn't nearly enough for me to go on.
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On April 14 2015 08:37 Stutters695 wrote:
[...]
In Titanic it's more of the same. He "has a hard time" establishing actual scum reads, while in his town games he's much more sure of himself.
Phone posting so I can pull up specifics later, but if you read just his filter in those games you'll see what I mean.
Fair enough. I'm up a little later tonight again, so I can look into this. Thanks for the detailed explanations.
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i was taking great offense but i'll pause for a moment to answer your question.
it's not about giving him tons of slack, it's about him doing weird shit for no reason. seriously no player in their first game as scum thinks it's a super good idea to say stuff like "i'm mysterious" and "stop digging into that" three times. he's just screaming for attention like that. look at bourneq who is wholly unforgettable and barely doing anything. that's super scummy but people are still like "lets lynch newbies who act weird" even after the plot lynch. the dwarf lynch is as bad as the plot lynch was.
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Following what I just posted on Bourneq I need to know why
1 He didn't name his two scumreads when prompted by Stutters
2 What made plotspot the most likely scum when 15 hours before TBD was the most likely scum and he was AFK that time.
3 Why push a policy lynch over any of his scum lynches.
1 and 2 being the more of the important questions IMO.
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##unvote
trying something and nope i won't explain what it is ^^
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EPT
