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here is a brief compilation of major clues from the text:
day 1 clues:
- coded manifesto
- gaining trust through misguided joy and position
- before the time for festivites of love
- muddy boot kick to chest cause Chuiu to lose balance
- cut laughter short and scolded for immature actions
- knife in hand. thorn in side since the day i got here. iaaagh. knife to throat.
- someone steppes out of the shadows.
- played a good game time to meet your maker.
- 5 clicks
- man in shadows pushed dd down staircase
- plain letter opener
- "that was low, even for you"
- "who cares where I stab him, all is fair"
- must be quick. grab body
- mafia bowed with an arm extended
- "we're in town, and we're here to stay.
Tuesday, 1st of July 2003 = chuiu's joindate
Day 2 Clues:
- infestation (second time used)
- great strength
- small needle and injected strange serum into Mahnini = violent seizures
- tried to escape but necksnap
- cutting phone lines to prevent emergency phone calls
- betaben mixing beverage to allow him to not dread his mind with the thoughts of Mafioso.
- the powers overseeing did not have first-rate plans
- evan killed by precise control
- misplaced sleepingbags
- from shadows, man captures krohm in sleepingbag and throws out window
- woke up betaben by water
- head shoved in boiling water
- games mafia plays do not parallel normal towny
- life has no place in their games, only death and pain.
- artofmagic sliced in two
- mafia said "nothing is wrong until you start saying it its" then killed kAra with single bullet
Day 3 Clues:
- Movie theaters oddly still open
- lights off and doors shut
- kick in chest to roll down stairs again
- one dressed strange, one with purpose in his eyes
+ needle in his back
x skin turned colors until it stopped with blue
x lack of oxygen
x "an interesting reaction to this particular compound. I'll have to refine it more."
- knife wielder smiling
+ stabbed in the stomach
- met every move with speed and grace
+ countered by small bat
- "you will have to answer for this to god"
+ necksnap death
- mafia man says "Its sad when a noble heart loses strength" then stabbed Puosu in heart.
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The methods of killing:
- muddy bootkick to chest (day 1)
- kicked to floor (day 3)
- kick to chest in movie theatres (day 3)
- knife to throat by "thorn in side" guy (day 1)
- knife in back by "That was low, even for you" "Who cares where I stab him, all is fair" cleaning the knife (day 1)
- knife slice to throat by precise controller (day 2)
- knife kill in stomach by smiling killer (day 3)
- knife heart stab after mafia said "Its sad when a noble heart loses strength" (day 3)
- trap in sleeping bag and thrown out window (day 2)
- head in boiling water (day 2)
- sliced in two (day 2)
- needle kill by two men, one strong. effect was violent seizures but eventual regain of control (day 2)
- needle kill by two men, one strangley dressed, one with purpose in eyes. effect was lack of oxygen in blood (day 3)
- speedy and graceful man kills with a small bat to the chest (day 3)
- necksnap after "you will have to answer for this to god" (day 3)
- single bullet to the head (day 2)
- shootout (day 3)
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Five people seem to keep showing up in these killings. One that likes to kick people in the chest, one that likes to slice throats, one that is very nimble and has precise control, and the strong guy/mad scientist combo.
From just using the list I gave earlier about the suspicious profiles, these are the suspects for each day:
After Day 1 Clues:
goldenkrnboi = shadow => light hater in profile
starrek = scolded immature actions => 1953 dob
After Day 2 Clues:
Caller = cut phone lines => name
Empyrean = "the powers overseeing" => Dogma: I am God. quote
goldenkrnboi = shadow => light hater in profile
chicken` = boiling water => poor johnny left the stove on in profile pic
Drowsy = betaben disillusioned as he woke => name coincidence?
After Day 3 Clues:
goldenkrnboi = lights off in movie theatre => light hater in profile
Empyrean = "answer to god" => Dogma: I am God. quote
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So naturally, my main suspects are the names that repeatedly come up.
they are:
#1 goldenkrnboi. There always seems to be a guy popping out of the shadows. Even in the theater, the lights stayed off. In this guy's profile, he clearly says he is the #1 light hater. Now I know he meant it in a starcraft context, but I think chuiu may have used it in a more literal sense.
#2 Empyrean. There were references of infiltrating high spot in the town's society (town being a metaphore for teamliquid.net) in day one. Empyrean is a part of high society here. More importantly, however, there are constantly references to God by the victims before they die. Empyrean not only has Dogma: I am God as his quote, the name itself is a reference to a divine place.
#3 chicken`. While there is only one piece of evidence against him, (which is usually not enough to make me certain) it is very strong. I searched long and hard for any connection that someone might have had with boiling water on a stove due to the day 2 deaths. I finally found that connection in chicken's picture in his profile. I really can't see any other explanation for chuiu to pick such a random death other than it is a major clue. Right now, that clue is pointing really hard at chicken.
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I probably will regret spilling my guts like this come the next night, but whatever. If the information helps catch at least 1 mafia, it will be worth it.
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On February 12 2008 14:47 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
[EDIT=Breakthrough] Depending on how Aepplet is pronounced, it could be taken as "i-pplet". Aepplet joined the site in 2003, mere months after Chuiu! [EDIT]
LMAO, didn't see this until now! breakthrough? that's redicilous! no wonder the dude was guilty.
btw, it's pronounced epplet, with short E as in "leg", "egg", etc. =)
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Logic prevails at last~
Shallow was a pretty smooth operator- if he hadn't pulled that stunt early game I seriously doubt I would have been glaring at him at all.
To respond to Caller...
Please READ MY POSTS. I WILL NOT enter correspondance via PM and said that already. I can confirm that he sent it and actually intended to reveal this post after day broke; you've done it for me. I've yelled about receiving PMs before. I will continue to do so. I find them inherently scummy; if you're mafia and in a PM conversation where everything is secret, you can potentially just kill the guy off before he can spill what you've said to everyone else.
Frankly, I find it way more scummy that you send me a PM, then set up this ridiculous argument that "Tracil didn't reply to me, ergo he's kinda scummy!" You haven't even read my posts if you think this is valid in the slightest.
As far as the Live2Win thing goes, well. I don't know if he's mafia or not, but in general, him defending me isn't a tell either way *unless* he flips scum. I didn't really associate defending me with being scummy... although it wouldn't be a bad position for scum to take, I suppose. Eh, I guess I'm naturally a bit biased.
<->
SUSPICIOUS DUDES.
1) Caller. He said "I am mafia!" earlier. That's really stupid. He's set up this PM thing about how me not replying to it apparently looks bad because I'm the type to discuss things... despite having already said that I don't want PMs and have generally reported them in the past (I intended to report this during daytime.) I don't really know about his case in Live2Win, as although it seems kinda wonky, Live2Win has done a couple things that stand out to me as well.
Obligatory Clue: He also has 'mud' in his profile quote, and I remember one mafioso having muddy boots way back! Coincidence?!
For now, I vote for Caller. Headsup, people, since we can change our votes there is actually no shame in voting fairly early. He also called for paramedics to protect him- DON'T DO THAT. Let them make up their own frigging minds.
2) People who seem to post as little as possible; i.e. those who only make token gestures and a small effort, and then go on to only state the bleedingly obvious. That's... a lot of people. So I can't REALLY be suspicious on these grounds alone, especially with the size of the game. General hint for late-game when there are less people- look at the guys who are lagging behind in conversation and not posting as much as others when discussion is going full-tilt.
3) FakeSteve. FakeSteve is mayor, he should be talking lots. But he's not! He's posting every now and again and seems to be exercising his mayoral powers as demanded, which is good. But... his lack of any kind of detective work of his own unsettles me greatly. I want to know what he thinks about recent events. I don't want to see him say crap like 'whether or not I'm town or scum is inconsequential, I'm not going to die.'
4) wurm. Wurm said at one point "Everyone is voting to lynch Dr. Dragoon again instead of analyzing the clues", but this post was *right after* a short debate on whether or not one of the clues did, in fact, point to Dr. Dragoon, so... this seemed a bit odd to me. However he does seem to be making large posts, which is pretty cool.
5) MasterofChaos: Isn't actually playing, but I hope he stops pretending.
6) clazziquai: Did this guy say *anything* except to tell Dr. Dragoon to die?
7) Falcynn reacted rather sharply when someone pointed out a clue that seemed to point to him; to be fair, other people were likewise treating it as remarkably solid. I just... didn't really think it was a big deal, but he seemed to overreact a bit. Not too sure here. Here's some quote.
On February 17 2008 05:03 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2008 04:51 Yogurt wrote:On February 16 2008 18:36 Vharox wrote:
"He closed the zipper and was complete in the capture of his prey"
Yet another clue referring to "prey"...
Aka falcynn... Aka mafioso :O damn nice find Ok, I feel I should defend myself before a crapload of accusations start pouring in. 1. An animal hunted or caught for food; quarry. 2. One that is defenseless, especially in the face of attack; a victim. 3. The act or practice of preying. Ok...so that didn't help, and I can't really understand Chuiu's choice of words in wanting to write prey instead of victim. However you said another clue refering to prey, and the only one I can think of that was mentioned was that whole "not a mouse was stirring" bit in day 1. That's usually a very common line to imply that a whole town/area/house/whatever is completely silent. So if you believe that Chuiu's choice of words would lead to me then there's really nothing I can argue about that since I have the only username in this game that has anything to do with hunting (except maybe to_miss_the_mark, but then that wouldn't make sense). However there isn't "another" clue referring to me. damn it...I'm seriously not thinking straight right now.
<->
I want to double lynch again, yada yada yada.
<->
General game note. As the quantity of people alive winds down and the amount of mafia kills left drops, there's one kind of roleclaim that could be very useful- that is, elders.
Elders have the power to double vote and are always town. By demonstrating their ability to cast multiple votes, they can effectively prove their townhood. Don't do this YET- you'll just get killed at night most likely- but LATER, perhaps when mafia only have 4-5 kills or so.
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i think we should stare less at the clues and more at the people whom they actually apply too. i'm not familiar with many of the participants in this game so it's a bit tricky to connect the clues to the right guy, and im sure this applies to many others as well. we should make more effort investigating the suspects than the clues.
looking at what people are saying is obviously the best way but no harm in taking a two-pronged approach, right?
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Germany3478 Posts
Did yogurt tell us his suspicions, if he had any? i'm too lazy to read tons of pages again, but he was a detective after all and might have tried to convince us to vote for someone who he knew is guilty because he asked chuiu about a clue and got a satisfying answer. he couldn't have said that out loud obviously so maybe it pays to check again.. just a thought..
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 19 2008 21:14 Tracil wrote:Logic prevails at last~ Shallow was a pretty smooth operator- if he hadn't pulled that stunt early game I seriously doubt I would have been glaring at him at all. To respond to Caller... Please READ MY POSTS. I WILL NOT enter correspondance via PM and said that already. I can confirm that he sent it and actually intended to reveal this post after day broke; you've done it for me. I've yelled about receiving PMs before. I will continue to do so. I find them inherently scummy; if you're mafia and in a PM conversation where everything is secret, you can potentially just kill the guy off before he can spill what you've said to everyone else. Frankly, I find it way more scummy that you send me a PM, then set up this ridiculous argument that "Tracil didn't reply to me, ergo he's kinda scummy!" You haven't even read my posts if you think this is valid in the slightest. As far as the Live2Win thing goes, well. I don't know if he's mafia or not, but in general, him defending me isn't a tell either way *unless* he flips scum. I didn't really associate defending me with being scummy... although it wouldn't be a bad position for scum to take, I suppose. Eh, I guess I'm naturally a bit biased. <-> SUSPICIOUS DUDES. 1) Caller. He said "I am mafia!" earlier. That's really stupid. He's set up this PM thing about how me not replying to it apparently looks bad because I'm the type to discuss things... despite having already said that I don't want PMs and have generally reported them in the past (I intended to report this during daytime.) I don't really know about his case in Live2Win, as although it seems kinda wonky, Live2Win has done a couple things that stand out to me as well. Obligatory Clue: He also has 'mud' in his profile quote, and I remember one mafioso having muddy boots way back! Coincidence?! For now, I vote for Caller. Headsup, people, since we can change our votes there is actually no shame in voting fairly early. He also called for paramedics to protect him- DON'T DO THAT. Let them make up their own frigging minds. 2) People who seem to post as little as possible; i.e. those who only make token gestures and a small effort, and then go on to only state the bleedingly obvious. That's... a lot of people. So I can't REALLY be suspicious on these grounds alone, especially with the size of the game. General hint for late-game when there are less people- look at the guys who are lagging behind in conversation and not posting as much as others when discussion is going full-tilt. 3) FakeSteve. FakeSteve is mayor, he should be talking lots. But he's not! He's posting every now and again and seems to be exercising his mayoral powers as demanded, which is good. But... his lack of any kind of detective work of his own unsettles me greatly. I want to know what he thinks about recent events. I don't want to see him say crap like 'whether or not I'm town or scum is inconsequential, I'm not going to die.' 4) wurm. Wurm said at one point "Everyone is voting to lynch Dr. Dragoon again instead of analyzing the clues", but this post was *right after* a short debate on whether or not one of the clues did, in fact, point to Dr. Dragoon, so... this seemed a bit odd to me. However he does seem to be making large posts, which is pretty cool. 5) MasterofChaos: Isn't actually playing, but I hope he stops pretending. 6) clazziquai: Did this guy say *anything* except to tell Dr. Dragoon to die? 7) Falcynn reacted rather sharply when someone pointed out a clue that seemed to point to him; to be fair, other people were likewise treating it as remarkably solid. I just... didn't really think it was a big deal, but he seemed to overreact a bit. Not too sure here. Here's some quote. Show nested quote +On February 17 2008 05:03 Falcynn wrote:On February 17 2008 04:51 Yogurt wrote:On February 16 2008 18:36 Vharox wrote:
"He closed the zipper and was complete in the capture of his prey"
Yet another clue referring to "prey"...
Aka falcynn... Aka mafioso :O damn nice find Ok, I feel I should defend myself before a crapload of accusations start pouring in. 1. An animal hunted or caught for food; quarry. 2. One that is defenseless, especially in the face of attack; a victim. 3. The act or practice of preying. Ok...so that didn't help, and I can't really understand Chuiu's choice of words in wanting to write prey instead of victim. However you said another clue refering to prey, and the only one I can think of that was mentioned was that whole "not a mouse was stirring" bit in day 1. That's usually a very common line to imply that a whole town/area/house/whatever is completely silent. So if you believe that Chuiu's choice of words would lead to me then there's really nothing I can argue about that since I have the only username in this game that has anything to do with hunting (except maybe to_miss_the_mark, but then that wouldn't make sense). However there isn't "another" clue referring to me. damn it...I'm seriously not thinking straight right now. <-> I want to double lynch again, yada yada yada. <-> General game note. As the quantity of people alive winds down and the amount of mafia kills left drops, there's one kind of roleclaim that could be very useful- that is, elders. Elders have the power to double vote and are always town. By demonstrating their ability to cast multiple votes, they can effectively prove their townhood. Don't do this YET- you'll just get killed at night most likely- but LATER, perhaps when mafia only have 4-5 kills or so.
Like I said Tracil, my suspicion of you is based on Live2Win's guilt. If he flips towny, then there is no reason to suspect you at all. On the other hand, if he flips scum, then you are that much more suspicious.
Here's another thing: I sent the PM a long time ago, before Day 2. Why didn't you bring it up then? If you were afraid of dying, that would have to be bull I say, because you're the pardoner and have 3 bodyguards left.
Yet another thing: Live2Win has not been targeted by the mafia as of yet-instead, it is TWO of his detractors, BOTH of whom talked about STIM, BOTH of whom died yesterday.
You are right to treat me highly suspiciously. I did say that before. However, I leave it up to the town to decide. If I flip mafia, you can be sure that I'm probably screwing around. If I flip towny, on the other hand... then what?
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On February 19 2008 21:58 chicken` wrote:
Did yogurt tell us his suspicions, if he had any? i'm too lazy to read tons of pages again, but he was a detective after all and might have tried to convince us to vote for someone who he knew is guilty because he asked chuiu about a clue and got a satisfying answer. he couldn't have said that out loud obviously so maybe it pays to check again.. just a thought..
yogurt, ironically, was suspicious of Zapling.
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On February 19 2008 18:32 ZaplinG wrote:
here is a list of people with suspicious profiles:
starrek: born March 03, 1953
Empyrean: profile says Dogma: I am God. Empyrean means dwelling place of god in the divine comedy, source of light
infinity21: hairstyle
Scooter: pen spinning get ladies wet
Zelniq: sorry companion Cube, no cake
chicken`: 645kpm oot frying pan in the fire, poor johnny - left the stove on
Live2Win: accused list on profile shows confidence of not being lynched
goldenkrnboi: #1 light hater
Drowsy: As the echoes of laughter die out, crawl toward the earth where Gods lie buried
Mini Moose 2707: SEN Admin
imDerek: keke and halmet quote
ieatkids5: 5 in name and procrastination
Caller: Bread, apples, very small rocks, cider, horses, sherry, mud, churches, lead (most are things that float, from monty python and holy grail)
i actually added that quote in after the game started lol
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And Live2Win, I also saw this quote, # 1000 something.
"I first suspected FS during his campaign.. or rather, lack there-of. How many posts did FakeSteve make to campaign himself for mayor? Almost none. Yet he won the election. On the other hand our Pardoner, Tracil put a lot out there. He really shared his thoughts and gave out tips. Of course I initial pointed that as a suspicious move, but at this point I admit that my suspicion of Tracil has subsided substantially. Yet even with all of his, "campaigning" he just barely scraped in 13 votes. (Although that probably has a lot to do with my "don't trust Tracil" speech)."
this was during your anti fake steve thread. My question is, what has Tracil done since then and now? nothing. He's stayed quiet.
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Caller: You're right that I haven't been posting much as I should. Doubly unforgivable due to my ranting about discussion earlier. Sorry 'bout that.
The PM I didn't actually see until after night broke; either I didn't check between when you sent it and then, or I just didn't notice that I'd receieved it. I have not been so cool with PMs; my original intent was to reveal them on the spot, but since I received one claiming to be a bodyguard, I wanted to be a bit more cagey about who was sending me what. I certainly didn't want to reveal it during night, though, where town can't really do anything about it and mafia could use the opportunity to perhaps kill you and sow discord throughout town; basically, as discussion material, I felt it was better saved until the day broke again.
So. My play hasn't been perfect. However, I disagree with the contention that, if Live2Win is scum, it implicates me.
I can see the reasoning. But the points Live2Win stands out to me on are how his actions don't match up there; early in day 1 he was against me, trying to imply that my statements on how the game should be played are wrong/we should be cautious of Tracil. That kinda doubt-spreading sentiment. He retracted that; I assumed he'd been convinced.
The thing that still bugs me to the present is how he kept voting for SoMuchBetter- a *null* factor. He'd done pretty much nothing but say 'vote me!' In that I felt he was no better than FakeSteve. So I was surprised when Live2Win did not vote for me, but kept his vote where it was. An explanation was offered and it's... tenuous, I'll grant.
His play since day 1, though, has seemed pretty solid. Although.. ugh, now all these little things keep bugging me. For instance, when Dr. Dragoon was lynched, it felt pretty obvious that Shallow was likely scum, yet Live2Win seemed to react with great surprise upon today's dawn. Why? Genuine? I kinda lean towards it being faked, and yet, like I said, it's tenuous.
So. I'm not entirely critical of you for going after Live2Win. I just don't really think it'd point to me were he to flip scum.
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My suspicions of Shallow[Bay] were justified. Though I have made a few mistakes (sorry Nightmare). Shallow was one of the first suspects we accused of being mafia. After defending himself, he went so far under the radar, we just forgot about him. I say we re-group and read all of our past accusations. I've reviewed mine and one of the first who I accused, then the said person went under the radar is: NotSorry.
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On February 19 2008 22:51 Tracil wrote:
Caller: You're right that I haven't been posting much as I should. Doubly unforgivable due to my ranting about discussion earlier. Sorry 'bout that.
The PM I didn't actually see until after night broke; either I didn't check between when you sent it and then, or I just didn't notice that I'd receieved it. I have not been so cool with PMs; my original intent was to reveal them on the spot, but since I received one claiming to be a bodyguard, I wanted to be a bit more cagey about who was sending me what. I certainly didn't want to reveal it during night, though, where town can't really do anything about it and mafia could use the opportunity to perhaps kill you and sow discord throughout town; basically, as discussion material, I felt it was better saved until the day broke again.
So. My play hasn't been perfect. However, I disagree with the contention that, if Live2Win is scum, it implicates me.
I can see the reasoning. But the points Live2Win stands out to me on are how his actions don't match up there; early in day 1 he was against me, trying to imply that my statements on how the game should be played are wrong/we should be cautious of Tracil. That kinda doubt-spreading sentiment. He retracted that; I assumed he'd been convinced.
The thing that still bugs me to the present is how he kept voting for SoMuchBetter- a *null* factor. He'd done pretty much nothing but say 'vote me!' In that I felt he was no better than FakeSteve. So I was surprised when Live2Win did not vote for me, but kept his vote where it was. An explanation was offered and it's... tenuous, I'll grant.
His play since day 1, though, has seemed pretty solid. Although.. ugh, now all these little things keep bugging me. For instance, when Dr. Dragoon was lynched, it felt pretty obvious that Shallow was likely scum, yet Live2Win seemed to react with great surprise upon today's dawn. Why? Genuine? I kinda lean towards it being faked, and yet, like I said, it's tenuous.
So. I'm not entirely critical of you for going after Live2Win. I just don't really think it'd point to me were he to flip scum.
Point taken. Like I said, with no clues, I have no evidence against you right now. Live2Win, however, has clues.
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Hmm.
I don't think we ever really 'forgot' about Shallow; it just seems like Dr. Dragoon was way more likely to be scum than him. I, at least, would certainly have been voting for him today had he not been killed already. I think a lot of other people would have done the same.
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On February 19 2008 21:14 Tracil wrote:
7) Falcynn reacted rather sharply when someone pointed out a clue that seemed to point to him; to be fair, other people were likewise treating it as remarkably solid. I just... didn't really think it was a big deal, but he seemed to overreact a bit. Not too sure here. Here's some quote.
Bah, I only replied to that because I thought that if I just ignored it people would say "omg, he's trying to lie low now, he HAS to be mafia!". Anyways I have yet to decide fully on who I want to lynch, I'll be gone all day but when I get back I'll look through all the clues and try to figure out the best way to place my vote.
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I vote for Goldenkrnboi due to zapling's reasoning and cuz he's not posting much (correct me if I'm wrong, because lately I've just been skimming the thread)
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i'd say we lynch the people who don't talk (unless there is some obvious suspect), because unless people talk, we can't tell who's a mafia easily. assuming everyone takes part in discussion, it would be easier to snare the mafia in their reasoning (and the way they cover for each other). what the mafia wants is to keep a low profile and just let the townies kill each others, only stepping in when they themselves are being threated. therefore, we should force them to start talking or face lynching.
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EPT
