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On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching.
You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me.
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On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me.
Im not him but i'll answer.
Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit.
Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them.
Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything.
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On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything.
I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really.
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On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really.
Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals.
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Plot? In my prequels?! NOT ON MY WATCH.
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On December 05 2014 02:33 Serejai wrote:
The problem with the prequels can be summed up by saying they had horrible character development. Out of all three films, the only character you ever cared about was Jar Jar Binks... and that's only because you kept wanting him to die. It's sad when the only character that isn't forgettable... is a comic relief character that you hate infinitely more than the actual bad guys in the movie.
To make it worse, a lot of the shallow characters in the movies were actually great characters in books. Darth Maul, General Grievous... both of them got shafted hard in the movies.
Whats funny is that the less backstory a star wars character had the better he was.
I mean we have Grievous, Maul, Vader, The Emperor, Tarkin all in a range from good to badass to legendary but if you only take the movies none of them had any backstory. Even characters like Obi Wan or Yoda had no information besides "they were Jedi once". Too much backstory just ruins characters in SW.
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On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals.
Yes, subtle, complex, but horrible.
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On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals.
I loled.
+ Show Spoiler +The prequels were like the Batman movies: occasionally carried on the strength of the villains, but largely just mindless action undergirded by a simplistic and preachy political message. Oh, and a whiny and unlikable protagonist whose decisions lack all proper motivation. Maul/Palpatine/Jango/RasAlGhul/Joker were cool, but do you really find yourself going back to those movies for anything other than their scenes?
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On December 05 2014 02:29 Ansinjunger wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2014 03:56 TokO wrote:
I actually loved Naboo. Their starfighters are my favourite ones, and I actually like Jar Jar too. But maybe that's because I hate conforming to popular opinion. Also, if the argument is that it's in for the 'kiddie' appeal, I might be a victim of that as I was a kiddie back when I watched those movies.
I don't really think there's a good reason for the hate towards ep. I-III, it just seems to be some kind of hatetrain originating in some elitist nerds a decade ago or so. The RedLetterMedia reviews never fully brought me aboard the hate train; they're overrated and long-winded, but when that very first point was made when people were asked to describe the characters' traits and they drew blanks for all the prequel characters, I knew the guy was right about some things. But I still figured I'd watch them for fun in the future, and I knew after first watching them that they lacked what I called the "Han Solo element." The fun of the cantina scenes was sorely lacking (death stix wtf? I mean, funny, but this isn't a video we watch in school). However, not until recently when I finished the Clone Wars on Netflix, did I find episode III and the prequels in general personally disappointing. I loved Ahsoka Tano's character, but I knew that was not going to be there. I was okay with the line about them meeting General Grievous for the first time in the movie, since the movie couldn't have known a ton of backstory would be filled in afterward. Grievous grew on me a lot in The Clone Wars. The real disappointment was the contrast between Anakin in the Clone Wars and Anakin in the movies. The Clone Wars version may or may not have translated well to movies, but it was so much better; the guy playing him felt happy to be doing it. Hayden Christiansen looked as uncomfortable in his skin as Richard Nixon, like the pressure to be the main character was eating him alive. Other performances were somewhere from bland to okayish, but Yoda looked completely wrong, when here I was thinking he only looked wrong in Phantom Menace and was fixed for episodes II and III. Whatever that fix was, it was clearly not enough. Palpatine was definitely a bright spot, but he can't carry the movie all by himself. TL:DR The Clone Wars' Rex was a better character than 90% of the prequels' characters, and Clone Wars Anakin>>>>prequel one.
There's quite a long timegap between the prequel movies, so a lot of development for characters are to be expected. The characters in the other media and originals are a lot more consistent due to shorter time etc, which can appeal to a lot of sci-fi fans.
I haven't watched Clone Wars, so I cannot really comment on Anakin in it. But in the prequels, he changes quite a lot. I think if Hayden Christianson felt uncomfortable in his role, it seemed like it worked for his character. Anikin is supposed to be frustrated, and get exponentially more frustrated as time goes on. So there's obviously a leap between II and III. It's to be expected that the characters are different, more mellow after years of war. Remember that the nature of the war changes quite a bit between I and II, and II and III, too.
I'm not sure, but I felt like the change in tempo and environment was done quite well between the prequels. Of course it could have been better, but it's for sure a lot better than how the Empire felt between the Originals. So because of the higher tempo of the prequels, it's more "descriptive", while the lower tempo of the originals made it more like an "adventure". You don't really have this neutral-good personality as a Luke or a Harry Potter or something that you can relate to and anchor to in the prequels, as all the main characters go through their own developments and dilemmas.
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Canada11179 Posts
On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything.
It really depends what you mean by that. If you mean that people are unable to read or watch stories because they do not take place in the modern world and therefore do not have the external trappings of realism, then I would agree. But if that is meant to be in defence of an incoherent story, then I believe you are selling fantasy and sci fi short. I'm not even sure suspension of disbelief is even an accurate term for when we first enter a fantastic story- I prefer Tolkien's Secondary Belief. We don't enter into a new story (whether Star Wars, Blade Runner, Interstellar) actively needing to push aside our brain aside for fear that it might continually remind us that we are only watching fiction. We enter into the new world willingly, investing into it secondary belief.
It is only when contradictions and incoherencies arise that the spell is broken and that we need to forcibly need to suspend disbelief to try to re-enter the secondary world. Over the break is a failure in art, the greater the self-contradictions and incoherencies, the more we are pulled out of the secondary world. And at a certain point, you can never return. People's breaking point and tolerance level is different from person to person and story to story. But a poorly realized secondary world is precisely why you get a giant nitpick fest like RedLetterMedia. Pulled out too often and people start pulling at all the seams that otherwise they would never have noticed had not the art failed.
Shamus Young had a couple interesting blogs on Plot Holes and Story Collapse:
Plot Holes Part 1: Trust in the Storyteller
Plot Holes Part 2: Story Collapse
There is a reason why the strong fantasy writers throw so much into versimilutude into their stories in certain parts- if they can establish the world sufficiently in some areas, they can get away with grey areas in others. Patrick Rothfuss talks a bit about this in some of his interviews.
The point is if the reason for not enjoying a story is the inclusion of the fantastic (dragons, therefore not real and not enjoyable), then fair point on suspension of disbelief- the viewer is at fault. If suspension of disbelief is just to cover the failings of a collapsed story, then I would disagree that the fault lies with the viewer.
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On December 05 2014 07:57 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals. I loled. + Show Spoiler +The prequels were like the Batman movies: occasionally carried on the strength of the villains, but largely just mindless action undergirded by a simplistic and preachy political message. Oh, and a whiny and unlikable protagonist whose decisions lack all proper motivation. Maul/Palpatine/Jango/RasAlGhul/Joker were cool, but do you really find yourself going back to those movies for anything other than their scenes?
Breaking Bad showed you can tell the story of someone becoming evil and have them be likable from beginning to end. Star Wars prequels? Anakin was never likable even when he was a good guy, Obi-Wan wasn't as annoying as Anakin but he was incredibly boring. Complex plot doesn't count for anything in an action movie meant for a young audience, especially if there's no likable character for an audience to root for.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
It's so sad because Obi-Wan in The Clone Wars animated series is so good.
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On December 05 2014 07:57 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals. I loled. + Show Spoiler +The prequels were like the Batman movies: occasionally carried on the strength of the villains, but largely just mindless action undergirded by a simplistic and preachy political message. Oh, and a whiny and unlikable protagonist whose decisions lack all proper motivation. Maul/Palpatine/Jango/RasAlGhul/Joker were cool, but do you really find yourself going back to those movies for anything other than their scenes?
The Dark Knight is my favorite movie after the two Godfathers, fuck yes I do.
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On December 05 2014 12:28 flamewheel wrote:
It's so sad because Obi-Wan in The Clone Wars animated series is so good.
Yeah even Anakin was good in the animated series.
Tbh I do think people over hate the prequels but w/e I enjoyed episode 2 and 3 (I hated 1 though).
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i loved the clone wars animated series the ep where it showed u clone training and then in the next season opening ep
+ Show Spoiler + they mention the names of that squad in the people who died defending the station T_T
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
oh yeah the rookies/cadets/arc troopers episodes. that was my first clue back then that these episodes were TCW episodes weren't ordered chronologically.
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On December 05 2014 15:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 07:57 Yoav wrote:On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals. I loled. + Show Spoiler +The prequels were like the Batman movies: occasionally carried on the strength of the villains, but largely just mindless action undergirded by a simplistic and preachy political message. Oh, and a whiny and unlikable protagonist whose decisions lack all proper motivation. Maul/Palpatine/Jango/RasAlGhul/Joker were cool, but do you really find yourself going back to those movies for anything other than their scenes? The Dark Knight is my favorite movie after the two Godfathers, fuck yes I do.
You mean the Nolan's Batman? All of them blow.
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Batman & Robin was clearly the best.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me.
There were a lot of things that the prequels did very right. Overall, they were much worse than the originals, but they are still good and not worth nearly as much flak as they got.
Usually, when I watch 1-6 in order, I like the prequels but recognize that there is a significant jump in quality from 3 to 4.
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On December 06 2014 01:12 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 15:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On December 05 2014 07:57 Yoav wrote:On December 05 2014 07:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On December 05 2014 06:24 NukeD wrote:On December 05 2014 05:25 Capped wrote:On December 05 2014 03:17 NukeD wrote:On December 04 2014 16:38 Laurens wrote:
As for 1-3 vs 4-6, some other user pointed out it probably depends on which ones you saw first, and I agree. I watched them from 1 to 6 after buying a full DVD set and found 1-3 to be great, whereas the last 3 where pretty boring and I had to force myself to continue watching. You found the prequels to be great movies? Do you also think transformers are great movies? Just trying to comprehend this mindset because your opinion is just so unfathomable to me. Im not him but i'll answer. Yes and yes. Great action movies. If im looking for awe-inspiring emotion-inducing writing i'll go watch Schindlers list or some shit. Transformers and Lightsabers make me giddy when i watch awesome shit involving them. Being able to suspend your belief for the sake of entertainment is a wonderful thing and i pity those who cant because they'll forever have a problem with everything. I agree with you if the genre is an action movie and that we should generally watch movies with their face value, however Star Wars movies are supposed to be a science fiction fairy tale. I also cant agree that prequels are great action movies. Shiny explosions and camera rollercoasters dont make any movie really. Are you implying the prequels are mindless? Because beyond all the CGI and eye candy, there's a far subtler and more complex plot going on than we ever saw in the originals. I loled. + Show Spoiler +The prequels were like the Batman movies: occasionally carried on the strength of the villains, but largely just mindless action undergirded by a simplistic and preachy political message. Oh, and a whiny and unlikable protagonist whose decisions lack all proper motivation. Maul/Palpatine/Jango/RasAlGhul/Joker were cool, but do you really find yourself going back to those movies for anything other than their scenes? The Dark Knight is my favorite movie after the two Godfathers, fuck yes I do. You mean the Nolan's Batman? All of them blow.
I even got the collective masses of IMDb behind my back for this one. Ranked at #108, #4, and #55.
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EPT
