The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 321

On October 21 2014 13:44 Incognoto wrote:
I'm so bad at TvZ it's not even funny. Half the time the zerg just makes unit and there's no way I can cope with the amount that he has. I literally can't. If he goes for a quick third there's NO way I can punish him for it. There's also no way for me to punish droning, zerg can get out 20 lings or 5 roaches and can drone safely unless you move out with full force, in which case he just uses the larva mechanic to throw all his resources into an army that will beat yours with a-move whereas you have to micro. How on earth do you play TvZ?

I need a build order recommendation. Something that is safe vs baneling busts (don't even get me started on how absurdly easy it is for zerg to baneling bust compared to how hard it is to hold off) and that moves out relatively quickly with a strong timing attack.

Also mass roaches have no counter? except siege tanks and marauders which are two units which suck which you don't want to get?

On October 21 2014 13:44 Incognoto wrote:
I'm so bad at TvZ it's not even funny. Half the time the zerg just makes unit and there's no way I can cope with the amount that he has. I literally can't. If he goes for a quick third there's NO way I can punish him for it. There's also no way for me to punish droning, zerg can get out 20 lings or 5 roaches and can drone safely unless you move out with full force, in which case he just uses the larva mechanic to throw all his resources into an army that will beat yours with a-move whereas you have to micro. How on earth do you play TvZ?

I need a build order recommendation. Something that is safe vs baneling busts (don't even get me started on how absurdly easy it is for zerg to baneling bust compared to how hard it is to hold off) and that moves out relatively quickly with a strong timing attack.

Also mass roaches have no counter? except siege tanks and marauders which are two units which suck which you don't want to get?

On October 21 2014 23:29 KtJ wrote:
When should i get a e-bay? in all match-ups.

On October 21 2014 23:45 KtJ wrote:
For any upgrades.

On October 21 2014 23:29 KtJ wrote:
When should i get a e-bay? in all match-ups.

On October 21 2014 23:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:


As a general rule of thumb I've always thought that you get upgrades once you get 3-4 geysers. 1 ebay if you're aggressive, 2 ebays if you're defensive.

Can someone clarify me on that?

On October 22 2014 02:29 Grizvok wrote:


That really isn't accurate at all.

On October 22 2014 02:56 Aquila- wrote:
Short question: In TvZ Terrans always make a few hellions and then switch the factory which serves as a builder for reactors which will be switches to raxes to favor bio over hellions/mines. Would it be good/viable to just keep the factory on the reactor and keep making hellions to later transform them into hellbats or keep making mines to have more with the first push? Because otherwise you have like 2 mines out with the first medivacs. Or do you need to cut this unit production anyway in order to "power up" buildings?

On October 22 2014 03:04 brickrd wrote:

i can only remember one high level TvZ game in HOTS that had single ebay upgrades and it was a really really strange +1 timing by marineking in olimoleague if im not mistaken... and it got slaughtered horribly, it was a terrible build

other than that ive only ever seen double upgraded bio or zero upgrade allins (for TvZ at least i mean)


it is possible to keep making hellions/hellbats but its a situation where you really have to be doing snowball damage to zerg and pretty much kill or totally cripple them. in IEM qualis recently forGG killed snute with a hellion banshee build that just kept continually rallying hellions across the map, but snute's defense totally crumbled, which it had to for the attack to work. otherwise yes you need to stop so you can get your production going, take a third, etc. early bio activity is really more about clearing creep than taking fights with a lot of widow mines

On October 22 2014 03:24 Grizvok wrote:


Yeah from what I've seen TvZ tends to have two ebays.

TvT can be variable but you'll usually see two ebays thrown down together. I've noticed my timings change considerably on this front if I spot Banshees incoming as I'll usually get the ebay down very quickly for turrets.

TvP is always a single ebay.

On October 22 2014 02:56 Aquila- wrote:
Short question: In TvZ Terrans always make a few hellions and then switch the factory which serves as a builder for reactors which will be switches to raxes to favor bio over hellions/mines. Would it be good/viable to just keep the factory on the reactor and keep making hellions to later transform them into hellbats or keep making mines to have more with the first push? Because otherwise you have like 2 mines out with the first medivacs. Or do you need to cut this unit production anyway in order to "power up" buildings?

On October 22 2014 05:06 Gwavajuice wrote:




TvZ indeed have 2 ebays. In Biomine vs zergbanemuta, upgrade are critical and kinda dictate the pace of the game, usually with the terran being the most aggressive on his upgrade timings. 1/1 gives you a good timing, 2/2 a very strong one (that's when marines laugh at mutas), 3/3 is god mode (cause the zerg has to upgrade to hive to get 3/3, your window of superiority is huuuuuuge)

TvT depends on the composition but when it's bio vs bio 2 ebays are almost mandatory any upgrade advantage makes a huge difference in the outcome of the battle when it's 50 marines vs 50 marines.

TvP is one ebay at start, but once 1/1 is done usually want to start 2/2 asap and thus you will have built a second ebay and an armory before hand. You need stim and medivac earlier than in the other match up and you can affort 2 ebays in early game. But in mid and late game protoss will (often) have their second forge and they ll (always) chronoboost upgrades, if you want to keep up in upgrades you need 2 Ebays. You just don't want to have their zealot over-upgrading you.

On October 22 2014 02:21 t0n!ght wrote:
Hey guys

I'm feeling a bit lost in TvT at the moment. I used to play mech exclusively but now I'm trying to learn bio.
In most games I play gas first banshee or gas first raven. I seem to often fall behind too much compared to the 15 gas player and lose in midgame. I usually go expand at 6:00 then I go up to 5 rax and 1 ebay before taking my third. I really need to figure out when I can safely go 1/1/1 3 OC. Any tips for that?

Another thing I really don't understand is why pro players play with no vikings. Is it really better to go pure medivacs?, and why? Are u supposed to safe scans for tank leap frogging?
Please someone explain to me the marine/tank mechanics without vikings ..

On October 22 2014 05:37 Gwavajuice wrote:


I don't think you're right about the pro not using vinkings. Air control is key in TvT (cause tank range > tank vision) and viking is really one of they key units of the match up.

What can happen though is when one players lost the early air battles, he just forget about making vikings if he doesn't think he can make enough to not be insta killed by his opponenent air army. But in the end he knows he will have to get back in the sky with extra starports or Thors.

Regarding the build, just learn the rax 12 gaz 15 build. You will learn bio style with more ease, then switch to gaz First banshee when you have match up knowledge...