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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On October 22 2014 20:06 Enigmasc wrote:
hey guys, this might sound stupid but whats the telling signs of some sort of lingbane/ roach / roach bane allins inTvZ?
trying to learn terran by offracing on na ( around gold level atm) but i keep getting destroyed by allins in tvz XD
funily enough while i main zerg iv always gone by hte 100% full macro philosiphy ( aside from ocational 2 hatch muta in clanwars) so i dont even kno the build for a roach bane/roach allin let alone how to hold one with 3cc XD
should i just do a build that opens tanks on maps like merry-go-round or nimbus?
Check for gases/RW/baneling nest with reaper and it shouldn't be too difficult. Just spam bunkers as soon as you see roaches moving towards your base.
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On October 22 2014 21:11 apocom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 22:29 Grizvok wrote:On October 21 2014 13:44 Incognoto wrote:
I'm so bad at TvZ it's not even funny. Half the time the zerg just makes unit and there's no way I can cope with the amount that he has. I literally can't. If he goes for a quick third there's NO way I can punish him for it. There's also no way for me to punish droning, zerg can get out 20 lings or 5 roaches and can drone safely unless you move out with full force, in which case he just uses the larva mechanic to throw all his resources into an army that will beat yours with a-move whereas you have to micro. How on earth do you play TvZ?
I need a build order recommendation. Something that is safe vs baneling busts (don't even get me started on how absurdly easy it is for zerg to baneling bust compared to how hard it is to hold off) and that moves out relatively quickly with a strong timing attack.
Also mass roaches have no counter? except siege tanks and marauders which are two units which suck which you don't want to get? Change your opinion about Marauders in TvZ immediately. You have no idea how ahead you can get if your opponent decides to run his banes into your Marauders (which happens a lot even in very very high level play). What is THE backbone damage dealer of a muta/ling/bane army? Banelings of course and what do Banelings absolutely suck against? Marauders. It isn't all about having the opponent make mistakes either. If your micro is crisp you should typically have your Marauders on the front lines and then when an engagement happens you want to split up the marine force behind the Marauders. Firstly Marauders are tanky and will eat Baneling shots and tank zerglings on the front line while your marines are immediately behind unleashing their stimmed dps. And secondly is concussive shells. You'll notice this much more in low unit count situations but if the Zerg opponent rolls by the Marauders and heads for your Marines if they even take one Marauder shot they are slowed very significantly to the point where they are rendered useless. I'm not saying make ridiculous amounts of Marauders but I am confirming that a well rounded army composition that maybe loses some dps to add much more survivability is absolutely worth it. Also if your opponent goes mass roaches how is the siege tank a unit you don't want to be making? I mean it sounds like your army is 100% marines and I'm sorry but that simplicity isn't going to cut it. Yeah Marines have insane dps but the survivability of that type of army is near zero. I bet your army comp is like medivac marine widow mine and that's it well widow mines actually take really good control to use. You need to be able to split them bury them them and then still have to split your bio back to make the Zerg run through the mine field. Oh did I mention if your control isn't on point that the mines will wreck your own army? Because it happens a lot. We may need to see a replay. Long time lurker registered just to say thank you for this. But how many maradurs do I need? 10-20% something like that?
I answered this in my megapost. Early-midgame you pretty much want full marines, but after you have your full 3 base production and have begun 3-3 upgrades, you want 3techlab mara and 5reactor marines w/ thors and mines.
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On October 22 2014 23:37 ThaSlayer wrote:
I have some questions regarding the current T v Z meta.
1) Given that zergs still go for muta/bling/ling, why has marine tank fallen out of favour?
2) Is BFH really necessary when going for the bio-thor style in T v Z? From what I have noticed, hellbats tend to act as tank due to their higher HP. Is BFH really worth it when hellbats can only get 1-2 shots off before getting destroyed by banelings?
3) Is the bio-thor style merely a variation of the 4M style? Are they meant to be played differently?
Thanks!
1) Because mines are like tanks but cheaper
2) No, you can make mines instead. If you go hellbats you should get blue flame and if you go mines you should get drilling claws. Either works fine but yes if you have hellbats you should get BFH as soon as you have a second rax w/ tech lab
3) Bio thor is a transition from bio mine pressure. You start off moving around the map w/ 5rax 1fac (pretty much pure marine/medi/mine) and add marauders/thors as your income increases and you no longer have to spend money on upgrades and infrastructure. Ideal setup w/ 3 mining bases is 8rax (3tech 5reactor) 2fac (1tech 1reactor, you can add another Techlab rax if you want) and 1port (reactor). Can add more ports for ravens vs swarmhost style.
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On October 22 2014 22:44 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 21:24 Lexender wrote:On October 22 2014 21:11 apocom wrote:On October 21 2014 22:29 Grizvok wrote:On October 21 2014 13:44 Incognoto wrote:
I'm so bad at TvZ it's not even funny. Half the time the zerg just makes unit and there's no way I can cope with the amount that he has. I literally can't. If he goes for a quick third there's NO way I can punish him for it. There's also no way for me to punish droning, zerg can get out 20 lings or 5 roaches and can drone safely unless you move out with full force, in which case he just uses the larva mechanic to throw all his resources into an army that will beat yours with a-move whereas you have to micro. How on earth do you play TvZ?
I need a build order recommendation. Something that is safe vs baneling busts (don't even get me started on how absurdly easy it is for zerg to baneling bust compared to how hard it is to hold off) and that moves out relatively quickly with a strong timing attack.
Also mass roaches have no counter? except siege tanks and marauders which are two units which suck which you don't want to get? Change your opinion about Marauders in TvZ immediately. You have no idea how ahead you can get if your opponent decides to run his banes into your Marauders (which happens a lot even in very very high level play). What is THE backbone damage dealer of a muta/ling/bane army? Banelings of course and what do Banelings absolutely suck against? Marauders. It isn't all about having the opponent make mistakes either. If your micro is crisp you should typically have your Marauders on the front lines and then when an engagement happens you want to split up the marine force behind the Marauders. Firstly Marauders are tanky and will eat Baneling shots and tank zerglings on the front line while your marines are immediately behind unleashing their stimmed dps. And secondly is concussive shells. You'll notice this much more in low unit count situations but if the Zerg opponent rolls by the Marauders and heads for your Marines if they even take one Marauder shot they are slowed very significantly to the point where they are rendered useless. I'm not saying make ridiculous amounts of Marauders but I am confirming that a well rounded army composition that maybe loses some dps to add much more survivability is absolutely worth it. Also if your opponent goes mass roaches how is the siege tank a unit you don't want to be making? I mean it sounds like your army is 100% marines and I'm sorry but that simplicity isn't going to cut it. Yeah Marines have insane dps but the survivability of that type of army is near zero. I bet your army comp is like medivac marine widow mine and that's it well widow mines actually take really good control to use. You need to be able to split them bury them them and then still have to split your bio back to make the Zerg run through the mine field. Oh did I mention if your control isn't on point that the mines will wreck your own army? Because it happens a lot. We may need to see a replay. Long time lurker registered just to say thank you for this. But how many maradurs do I need? 10-20% something like that? Constant marauder production from TL raxes, you should have 2 at least, more in the lategame in case of ultralisk. Tanks are good units also, yeah not as good as WM but they're still good in TvZ some players still marine/tank-it from time to time, also get thors they tank banelings quite well (it takes like 20 to kill a Thor lol) and are greath vs mutas. There is also nothing wrong with getting just 1-2 tank when you're almost at his doorstep to force pressure on his spine crawlers.
If you are at the point where you're at a zerg's doorstep w/ an army and can actually protect tanks there you probably already won. Don't agree with this at all
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On October 23 2014 03:20 Tzela wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2014 01:21 KenDM wrote:
Does anyone have a good video for a reaper expand into a balanced mid-/lategame with a timed push? i looked in the OP for you but it seems alot of the links to videos are broken now. swing on over to The Ultimate Starcraft Directory thread. lots of builds to choose from. when i was trying to learn the game i used http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-polts-reaper-fe/ for TvP and http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvz/tvz-flashs-reaperhellion-3cc/ for TvZ TvT i stay away from reapers and play gas first banshee. i personally found it really helpful to make sure i scouted at the same time every game. that way i could get used to what normal timings looked like from the opponent, and what was possible if somthing was different. MY QUESTION: Playing bio TvP, game goes back and forth and comes out even, i have 4 base bio ghost viking and he has templar colo with gateway units. i know, if i havent won by this point the odds are stacked against me. however i dont think its unwinnable. what is the ultimate comp im going for? pure ghost viking with like 4 to 6 medvacs? i suppose i need to turret everywhere in order to survive the warp prism DT harrass. take all my bases and mass orbital so i can throw away most of my scvs. should i be shooting for the comp Mario posted about for his mech TvP? like mixing in Thors and ravens? at this point im usually done +3 mech weapons so getting the armour upgrades is just a matter of time. any thoughts on how the game plan changes after the protoss has survived passed mid game?
You pretty much got it, heavy ghost viking with some bio. The idea is that ghosts and vikings are more supply efficient than marine/mara (because they are more money per supply). But you can also just be more aggressive with bio / drops, if you are trading armies often you don't want a heavy ghost composition because they are more expensive to replace. But for ideal 200/200 army fighting yeah you want like 15+ ghosts. Other comment suggesting nukes is also good
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On October 23 2014 04:41 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 22:44 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 22 2014 21:24 Lexender wrote:On October 22 2014 21:11 apocom wrote:On October 21 2014 22:29 Grizvok wrote:On October 21 2014 13:44 Incognoto wrote:
I'm so bad at TvZ it's not even funny. Half the time the zerg just makes unit and there's no way I can cope with the amount that he has. I literally can't. If he goes for a quick third there's NO way I can punish him for it. There's also no way for me to punish droning, zerg can get out 20 lings or 5 roaches and can drone safely unless you move out with full force, in which case he just uses the larva mechanic to throw all his resources into an army that will beat yours with a-move whereas you have to micro. How on earth do you play TvZ?
I need a build order recommendation. Something that is safe vs baneling busts (don't even get me started on how absurdly easy it is for zerg to baneling bust compared to how hard it is to hold off) and that moves out relatively quickly with a strong timing attack.
Also mass roaches have no counter? except siege tanks and marauders which are two units which suck which you don't want to get? Change your opinion about Marauders in TvZ immediately. You have no idea how ahead you can get if your opponent decides to run his banes into your Marauders (which happens a lot even in very very high level play). What is THE backbone damage dealer of a muta/ling/bane army? Banelings of course and what do Banelings absolutely suck against? Marauders. It isn't all about having the opponent make mistakes either. If your micro is crisp you should typically have your Marauders on the front lines and then when an engagement happens you want to split up the marine force behind the Marauders. Firstly Marauders are tanky and will eat Baneling shots and tank zerglings on the front line while your marines are immediately behind unleashing their stimmed dps. And secondly is concussive shells. You'll notice this much more in low unit count situations but if the Zerg opponent rolls by the Marauders and heads for your Marines if they even take one Marauder shot they are slowed very significantly to the point where they are rendered useless. I'm not saying make ridiculous amounts of Marauders but I am confirming that a well rounded army composition that maybe loses some dps to add much more survivability is absolutely worth it. Also if your opponent goes mass roaches how is the siege tank a unit you don't want to be making? I mean it sounds like your army is 100% marines and I'm sorry but that simplicity isn't going to cut it. Yeah Marines have insane dps but the survivability of that type of army is near zero. I bet your army comp is like medivac marine widow mine and that's it well widow mines actually take really good control to use. You need to be able to split them bury them them and then still have to split your bio back to make the Zerg run through the mine field. Oh did I mention if your control isn't on point that the mines will wreck your own army? Because it happens a lot. We may need to see a replay. Long time lurker registered just to say thank you for this. But how many maradurs do I need? 10-20% something like that? Constant marauder production from TL raxes, you should have 2 at least, more in the lategame in case of ultralisk. Tanks are good units also, yeah not as good as WM but they're still good in TvZ some players still marine/tank-it from time to time, also get thors they tank banelings quite well (it takes like 20 to kill a Thor lol) and are greath vs mutas. There is also nothing wrong with getting just 1-2 tank when you're almost at his doorstep to force pressure on his spine crawlers. If you are at the point where you're at a zerg's doorstep w/ an army and can actually protect tanks there you probably already won. Don't agree with this at all
Agreed. For anybody reading what he mentioned about tanks that is NOT a good idea. You are more than likely rallying everything across the map at this point and tanks are going to take forever to get there. Plus a long build time, etc etc. Just not an efficient strategy.
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On October 23 2014 04:40 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 23:37 ThaSlayer wrote:
I have some questions regarding the current T v Z meta.
1) Given that zergs still go for muta/bling/ling, why has marine tank fallen out of favour?
2) Is BFH really necessary when going for the bio-thor style in T v Z? From what I have noticed, hellbats tend to act as tank due to their higher HP. Is BFH really worth it when hellbats can only get 1-2 shots off before getting destroyed by banelings?
3) Is the bio-thor style merely a variation of the 4M style? Are they meant to be played differently?
Thanks! 1) Because mines are like tanks but cheaper 2) No, you can make mines instead. If you go hellbats you should get blue flame and if you go mines you should get drilling claws. Either works fine but yes if you have hellbats you should get BFH as soon as you have a second rax w/ tech lab 3) Bio thor is a transition from bio mine pressure. You start off moving around the map w/ 5rax 1fac (pretty much pure marine/medi/mine) and add marauders/thors as your income increases and you no longer have to spend money on upgrades and infrastructure. Ideal setup w/ 3 mining bases is 8rax (3tech 5reactor) 2fac (1tech 1reactor, you can add another Techlab rax if you want) and 1port (reactor). Can add more ports for ravens vs swarmhost style.
To expand on the concept of mines being cheaper than tanks (for ThaSlayer and others wondering the same thing), that is only relevant because it's expected you're going to lose your AoE units these days due to the HotS mutalisk buffs. Back in WoL you could actually adequately defend your tanks with marines, but the faster muta speed + healing buff means mutas can be much more aggressive when diving on your tanks. Without AoE, you're dead as a Terran. The mine provides a much more replenishable AoE (in cost, supply, and production time) when mutas clean everything up.
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Is there any non-outdated mech guide out there?
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Not to mention tanks are slow to siege, they have to be protected constantly, you need at least 4 sieged for them to have a serious impact. If you make a push with tanks and you get pinned down on the edge of creep, or pushed back by zerg, good luck ever crossing the map EVER again without 20 mutas sniping a CC.
I personally love going rine tank, because I find it more entertaining to play, but unless you enjoy
targeting banes
while splitting rines,
and stimming small groups of rines to fend off mutas
stick to thor hellbat.
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I think he means "that pros use to win tournaments"
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How many Barracks should i have if I play Bio?
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On October 24 2014 10:53 KtJ wrote:
How many Barracks should i have if I play Bio?
hmm i was reading the last 20-30 pages of this thread and it seems like u are asking very generic questions and having others tell you what to do step by step which is really bad. once you play more you will get a good grasp of how many production facilities u need per base.
Watch a replay and figure out each part of the game you had trouble spending your resources and fix them in the next game. If you play a game and you float 800 minerals at the 7 minute mark then take a note that you needed to put down 2 extra barracks a minute earlier. Getting supply blocked at 19/19 consistently? then make sure you make a depot 30 seconds before that time everygame. Its all part of the learning experience.
but anyway its something like this
TvP. R = reactor, T = techlab
1 base 3 rax 1R 2T
2 base 5 rax 2R 3T
3 base 8 rax 3R 5T
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On October 24 2014 11:08 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 10:53 KtJ wrote:
How many Barracks should i have if I play Bio? hmm i was reading the last 20-30 pages of this thread and it seems like u are asking very generic questions and having others tell you what to do step by step which is really bad. once you play more you will get a good grasp of how many production facilities u need per base. Watch a replay and figure out each part of the game you had trouble spending your resources and fix them in the next game. If you play a game and you float 800 minerals at the 7 minute mark then take a note that you needed to put down 2 extra barracks a minute earlier. Getting supply blocked at 19/19 consistently? then make sure you make a depot 30 seconds before that time everygame. Its all part of the learning experience. but anyway its something like this TvP. R = reactor, T = techlab 1 base 3 rax 1R 2T 2 base 5 rax 2R 3T 3 base 8 rax 3R 5T
So i should play more to figure out these things for myself?
Okay cool i get to play more.
Thank you for your help.
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On October 24 2014 23:51 KtJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 11:08 Xinzoe wrote:On October 24 2014 10:53 KtJ wrote:
How many Barracks should i have if I play Bio? hmm i was reading the last 20-30 pages of this thread and it seems like u are asking very generic questions and having others tell you what to do step by step which is really bad. once you play more you will get a good grasp of how many production facilities u need per base. Watch a replay and figure out each part of the game you had trouble spending your resources and fix them in the next game. If you play a game and you float 800 minerals at the 7 minute mark then take a note that you needed to put down 2 extra barracks a minute earlier. Getting supply blocked at 19/19 consistently? then make sure you make a depot 30 seconds before that time everygame. Its all part of the learning experience. but anyway its something like this TvP. R = reactor, T = techlab 1 base 3 rax 1R 2T 2 base 5 rax 2R 3T 3 base 8 rax 3R 5T So i should play more to figure out these things for myself? Okay cool i get to play more. Thank you for your help.
You should do what multiple people have said and simply go look up a build and learn to execute it perfectly. Like...there isn't anything else to say. Get a single build per match up that you can EASILY FIND with five seconds of work and learn to execute it perfectly.
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On October 25 2014 00:20 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 23:51 KtJ wrote:On October 24 2014 11:08 Xinzoe wrote:On October 24 2014 10:53 KtJ wrote:
How many Barracks should i have if I play Bio? hmm i was reading the last 20-30 pages of this thread and it seems like u are asking very generic questions and having others tell you what to do step by step which is really bad. once you play more you will get a good grasp of how many production facilities u need per base. Watch a replay and figure out each part of the game you had trouble spending your resources and fix them in the next game. If you play a game and you float 800 minerals at the 7 minute mark then take a note that you needed to put down 2 extra barracks a minute earlier. Getting supply blocked at 19/19 consistently? then make sure you make a depot 30 seconds before that time everygame. Its all part of the learning experience. but anyway its something like this TvP. R = reactor, T = techlab 1 base 3 rax 1R 2T 2 base 5 rax 2R 3T 3 base 8 rax 3R 5T So i should play more to figure out these things for myself? Okay cool i get to play more. Thank you for your help. You should do what multiple people have said and simply go look up a build and learn to execute it perfectly. Like...there isn't anything else to say. Get a single build per match up that you can EASILY FIND with five seconds of work and learn to execute it perfectly.
Sweet thanks ...reaper builds!
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When i play TvP i nearly always get cannon rushed, then i start to panic and then i lose. Does anyone know what to do if i get cannon rushed?
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On October 25 2014 03:26 Hatterluke wrote:
When i play TvP i nearly always get cannon rushed, then i start to panic and then i lose. Does anyone know what to do if i get cannon rushed?
Cannonrushes are very uncommon. Do you have a replay, maybe?
First defense is checking your main base. If it doesn't start in your main, you're fine in the current map pool. Tech for Medivacs, and try to sneak your 2nd base on the location of your third. Stim + Medivacs will shred the delayed tech of Protoss.
If it starts in your main, pull SCVs. 2 attacking the Probe. You need 4 SCVs attacking a single cannon as it is warping in. This will ensure the cannon cannot survive. You can ignore pylons unless Protoss is trying to wall you off with them.
If it starts behind your mineral line, key is to never let a second pylon get down. Put a scv or depot in it's place. I don't think there is any maps in this pool with exploitable main mineral lines, but if you can find a spot, just placing your first depot over that spot ensures nothing else can happen. If you have not yet scouted his main and his probe is moving towards the back of your mineral line, consider preemtively pulling a scv to deny it, if you really encounter cannon rushes every other game.
This is the most general advise I can give you without a replay.
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On October 25 2014 03:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2014 03:26 Hatterluke wrote:
When i play TvP i nearly always get cannon rushed, then i start to panic and then i lose. Does anyone know what to do if i get cannon rushed? Cannonrushes are very uncommon. Do you have a replay, maybe? First defense is checking your main base. If it doesn't start in your main, you're fine in the current map pool. Tech for Medivacs, and try to sneak your 2nd base on the location of your third. Stim + Medivacs will shred the delayed tech of Protoss. If it starts in your main, pull SCVs. 2 attacking the Probe. You need 4 SCVs attacking a single cannon as it is warping in. This will ensure the cannon cannot survive. You can ignore pylons unless Protoss is trying to wall you off with them. If it starts behind your mineral line, key is to never let a second pylon get down. Put a scv or depot in it's place. I don't think there is any maps in this pool with exploitable main mineral lines, but if you can find a spot, just placing your first depot over that spot ensures nothing else can happen. If you have not yet scouted his main and his probe is moving towards the back of your mineral line, consider preemtively pulling a scv to deny it, if you really encounter cannon rushes every other game. This is the most general advise I can give you without a replay.
Great thanks!
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On October 25 2014 03:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2014 03:26 Hatterluke wrote:
When i play TvP i nearly always get cannon rushed, then i start to panic and then i lose. Does anyone know what to do if i get cannon rushed? Cannonrushes are very uncommon. Do you have a replay, maybe? First defense is checking your main base. If it doesn't start in your main, you're fine in the current map pool. Tech for Medivacs, and try to sneak your 2nd base on the location of your third. Stim + Medivacs will shred the delayed tech of Protoss. If it starts in your main, pull SCVs. 2 attacking the Probe. You need 4 SCVs attacking a single cannon as it is warping in. This will ensure the cannon cannot survive. You can ignore pylons unless Protoss is trying to wall you off with them. If it starts behind your mineral line, key is to never let a second pylon get down. Put a scv or depot in it's place. I don't think there is any maps in this pool with exploitable main mineral lines, but if you can find a spot, just placing your first depot over that spot ensures nothing else can happen. If you have not yet scouted his main and his probe is moving towards the back of your mineral line, consider preemtively pulling a scv to deny it, if you really encounter cannon rushes every other game. This is the most general advise I can give you without a replay.
The other way around is to let him photon while you make reapers and simply go kill him in his base while floating your main when photons prevent you to mine (if SCVs can't escape your main base, you could consider not making orbital to travel SCVs via CC ). With good reaper micro you simply should win ^^
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EPT
