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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
Could you give us a little more insight in your switching back and forth? breshke: I pointed out some contradiction in your vote, since I get out of your post, that what has triggered your vote on gobble was his bm. Am I wrong here? If so, what was the reason you put your vote on him? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On August 28 2014 20:22 Barakos wrote: I actually feel Breshkes swing has got some bad taste in it. First of all there is this quote: Yet he still votes on gobble, not for being mafia but for being anti-town, after gobble started insulting people. Then he only went for MihZaaa after wades swing and when he could be quite sure, that he would not get lynched, since it would have taken 2 extra-votes on him and there were not enough people active in the thread to accomplish this, since many of us - myself included - were not present at the end of the day. Gobbles vote already was on him by the time he switched, so it would have taken 2 out of Meatpudding, abuse, superbia, lilwade an me. Lilwade switched back to his prime suspect just a few posts before, so he could be quite sure, he wouldn't get lilwades vote and meatpudding, abuse and I were not present anymore by the time he switched. I don't think this switch was a risk at all. On lilwades swing I feel unsure, since he had MihZaaa as his first vote, then switched to gobbledydook after his outburst and then switched back to MihZaaa, once his outburst was over and the tempers have cooled down. I don't like the back and forth, but it is in line with his previous posts and I can't blame him for swinging to gobble for a short period of time. He also gave an explanation for swinging: Still: I don't like the switching back and forth but I can understand both switches. I still would have felt better, if he had stuck with MihZaaa. I don't want to defend Breshke's defense/reads, because he has been sheeping most (all?) of them. I feel like he's very likely mafia (especially at this point). However, you make that swing with so many people who could be lurking and could start voting at any point, you take a risk. I think there were people lurking last night. Like I said before, I think mafia is among them (at least 1). Breshke might've been taking the chance because there was a mafia partner ready to vote on dook (in which case the mafia was probably not already on the voting for dook list). Alternatively, he might've been taking just a bigger, more calculated risk, as you suggested. I think that's a fair statement to make, one that I have considered as well, and there's no way Breshke will not be a wagon today. Switching back and forth to put some pressure is fine, but I have no idea why he switched back after the lack of defense (in my opinion). I'm going to finish my lunch and then reevaluate everyone, especially the people absent last night. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
I don't even know. You've given nothing so far, I don't like lynching lurkers, but be active, pretty please? MihZaaa - voted on dook / inactive during EoD Early on in the day gives a weird read on lilwade about him testing the waters with some questions. Didn't like the read. Felt the need to defend himself against my sexist joke, not sure if this is miscommunication or being too defensive. Replaces Jenny with Barakos for top town, that's fine. This was after a few people had already added Barakos as top town, though he gave him some meta-cred before (logging in from work). Calls out marine and lilwade for more interaction (specifically the latter, for only asking questions). Neglects dook, who hasn't participated yet at this point. Dook was town, so I don't know how to feel about this. Actually reads my megaposts and responds. Asks abuse why he specifically would've liked a town power role rather than a blank power role. I can see why this question is asked. Getting a bit more general here, since this is otherwise going to become another megapost: Aligns himself with my towncircle (specifically easy townreads) early on the game. Specifically aligns himself with Barakos, Jenny, me. This may be mafia going stealth mode, which would also explain his absence during EoD. Pushes on dook for good reasons. But doesn't do anything else from there for the entirety of the day. Don't like his push on dook into inactivity, especially paired with his aligning with the most town people (imo) at the start of the day. Wouldn't mind seeing a push on him today. Breshke - voted on dook / active during EoD Breshke sheeped most his reads. I can't find anything original. He calls abuse town early on and specifically says "Contrary to what some other people think I believe the questions he asked were great.". I don't think anyone disliked abuse's questions. Points out that Jenny had not "taken a stance on anyone in particular yet", which is only partially true. Jenny had given reads on MeatPole, Barakos, and myself before then, and had explained her iffy stance on MihZaaa. Specifically asks Meatpudding why he claimed VT rather than general town, which many people did (OC). Suggests to me that he's not reading thoroughly. Agrees with MeatPrattle on a lot of things, but doesn't read him town for unknown reasons. Would like more input from you here, Breshke, why didn't you put MeatPoster on your town list (#218)? Later includes him in his towncircle anyway, no reason given. Flip-flops between lynches like a frog. Specifically goes after a new vote on MihZaaa when it becomes slowly clear that dook is getting lynched. Again, I read this as a fairly big risk for mafia, as there were be a number of unknown variables during the EoD, even for mafia (unless both mafia were lurking, which is not a world we should exclude). Though this may also be to make him look good at the end of day, his vote wasn't on dook in the end, who turned out to be town. He didn't seem to read dook as mafia during early EoD, but still voted on him (only switched near the very end). Later made him his #1 scum. Then flip-flopped and switched fhis vote to MihZaaa anyway (his #2). Might be confused town or inexperienced mafia. Was on dook's "kill list" (but so was I). Definitely should be a push today. MeatPrattler - dead vote / inactive during EoD Defends abuse early on (backs off a little after he stops posting), so I doubt they are both mafia (although they could be, as mafia can do whatever they want). His defense was good, and he backs it up with a push on me. Unfortunately, this turns out to be a dead vote due to his inactivity. Reads and interacts with my posts. Though fails on the follow up questions from me (specifically, he doesn't interact on my "abuse merely skimmed over my post" point). Reads me as wicked because we are reading the opposite, as far as I see it, we only read the opposite on abuse. Calls out dook for his vote on abuse, even though I liked that (only thing I liked about dook), but it makes sense in regards to him aligning with abuse. He has also put some doubt on Jenny for decent reasons at this point. And then he's done. I don't know how I feel about MeatProduct. He was strong during a certain part of the day. And that's it, he did nothing else. I'm iffy about MeatPole, but I think there are better lynches for now. Will get back to the rest, going to the gym now. | ||
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Daydreamarine
Netherlands35 Posts
You can ask me questions and later when I come back from work I will try to answer them and provide some reads. | ||
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JennyHell
Sweden259 Posts
All I want to say is that the only one that is confirmed town is the guy that died. Noone else is confirmed. To me, it's me and a dead guy. To you it should be you and a dead guy. Yes, people have been doing towny things but that should not make them confirmed, me included. I went hard on defense of Gobble because I have experience of similar behaviour in people playing videomafia. There was no logical reason for him to flip as mafia in that particular moment unless so and so had happened. That along with the fact that everyone was willing to vote him off because of BM just felt like everyone dropped their initial thought of scumhunting and instead went for someone, like I pointed out they said, they feel is town but vote on anyways. We all need to go back, filter through all the bogus of day1 and try to sort our reads out. We have new information that gobble is confirmed town. Who did he align himself with, who went hard against him, who did he read as scum and why. All these things are something we need to take into consideration, and then we also need to look at the voting patterns. Who voted and when, who decided to go at him after he used profanity etc. Do some leg work people, I know I will. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
Relatively inactive during day 1, but from what I gathered from Jenny, this is his normal play. Hoping to see a little more from him in day 2. I like his doubts on Barakos, especially since Barakos came off as very townie at the start of the game, but was absent during the EoD. Though Barakos returns strong after wade expresses his doubts. Push on MihZaaa was nice, and something I missed. MihZaaa had abuse as his most scummy, but later retreated by saying it was instead his "least townie". Seems to tunnel quite a bit on MihZaaa. I don't like "A person that does not have their own opinion is more detrimental to town than anything else." because it might imply that you don't really think he's mafia, but that might just be me. Backs up his push on MihZaaa with a vote in the end, before switching to dook and then back again. Don't think this is mafia ensuring his vote isn't on confirmed town at EoD, since he was pushing on MihZaaa all day, and voted on him before the dook affair. His vote didn't end up on dook, but still voted on him before that. I think lilwade is town for today, though I would like to hear some more in-depth material on people other than MihZaaa (though don't exclude MihZaaa). JennyHell - never voted on dook / active during EoD Jenny, you were iffy for me before the EoD, now you are my waifu. I thought you were trying to pocket me with the push and switch on me, but now I think it was all genuine (and this game is probably more straightforward than I had thought). You were decently town at the start of the day (in my opinion). I didn't completely like the timing of your push on me, I think you could've waited a little longer (though to be honest, I don't think I was going to get much more from my pushes). I didn't really like your full-flip on me, but it was probably genuine. You were the best at the EoD, the most crucial point of day 1. If I had listened to you, the game probably would've been easier by now. But alas. We're never lynching you today, unless you scumslip hard. abuse - voted on dook / inactive during EoD Many people are reading abuse as town. I still don't know how I feel. I had my initial reads on him, but judging from his recent posts (post-EoD), he's staying proactive. His lurker story is getting older and older the more I filter dive him. It seemed to take up a lot of room in his earlier posts. I've said a lot on his earlier posts in my thesis (#179). His response was rather thorough and decentish. Likes MihZaaa's on the following: "Was hoping to get a power roll of some sort because sometimes defending yourself as vanilla town can be very frustrating when you don't convince people that have gotten fixated on you." which I definitely do not agree with and do not like. Liked Breshke's reads. I think he's the only one who liked Breshke's reads? I don't like him saying "I am willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong." on me. This feels like he wanted me to stop pushing on him in order to prove him wrong? It would've made my read a lot easier if he didn't have a heavier read on dook, followed by his vote on dook, since he didn't vote on me. Later also says "You do not have a case on me. You think you do, but you don't, Out of everything you said about me, there is nothing that actually IS scummy. I have, at this point, posted much more townie content than pretty much anyone here, and you fail to see it or admit it, then there is really only one explanation for this in my mind.", ugh. I don't know if he's mafia, since he's very proactive otherwise, but I don't like this kind of behavior. Buddy buddy with MeatPaper, one of them might be pocketing the other. Doubt they're both mafia. Also, called me suburbia... really man?  Completely stopped after his vote on dook and counterpush and me. I think we should look into abuse when more information is available. I think there's a chance he's mafia, but for now I'm willing to give him a pass since he's keeping up his proactiveness. Barakos - voted on dook / semi-active during EoD Lots of substantial posts. Active and useful. Read and interacted with my posts in a very townie way. Says he "might have been blinded by his trollish undertone and therefore missed several slips and flaws." (with regards to my megaposts) but never revisits this. May have had better targets on day 1 (votes on dook in his next post, 5 hours later), but I would like to see a follow up. Absent for the last 1 1/2 hours of the EoD without notice. Never lynching you today, unless you scumslip hard. I dread the world in which you're mafia. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On August 28 2014 23:31 JennyHell wrote: I am not going to do much during the nightphase. Mafia doesn't need more reasons to shoot me and I will instead spend most of the nightphase sorting out my reads privately, doing some votecounting and what not. All I want to say is that the only one that is confirmed town is the guy that died. Noone else is confirmed. To me, it's me and a dead guy. To you it should be you and a dead guy. Yes, people have been doing towny things but that should not make them confirmed, me included. I went hard on defense of Gobble because I have experience of similar behaviour in people playing videomafia. There was no logical reason for him to flip as mafia in that particular moment unless so and so had happened. That along with the fact that everyone was willing to vote him off because of BM just felt like everyone dropped their initial thought of scumhunting and instead went for someone, like I pointed out they said, they feel is town but vote on anyways. We all need to go back, filter through all the bogus of day1 and try to sort our reads out. We have new information that gobble is confirmed town. Who did he align himself with, who went hard against him, who did he read as scum and why. All these things are something we need to take into consideration, and then we also need to look at the voting patterns. Who voted and when, who decided to go at him after he used profanity etc. Do some leg work people, I know I will. I'm fine with this. But can you out your reads at EoN? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
MihZaaa was active until 1 AM CEST (2 hours before deadline) on the first part of day 1. No evening/night activity on day 2. MeatPencil was active around 3 AM CEST (deadline): start of day 1, start of second half of day 1. No activity around EoD. abuse has never been active around deadline times. Barakos was active until 1:30 AM CEST (1 1/2 hour before deadline) during the EoD. | ||
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lilwade
United States136 Posts
On August 28 2014 20:28 Barakos wrote: lilwade: now, that there isn't the hectic of the nearing end of day: Could you give us a little more insight in your switching back and forth? breshke: I pointed out some contradiction in your vote, since I get out of your post, that what has triggered your vote on gobble was his bm. Am I wrong here? If so, what was the reason you put your vote on him? My switch was to pressure gobble to try to bring a case for himself, but he crumbled and gave up. Which is something is hate to see in mafia. Artanis told me in the first game to just keep it cool and dont take it personal. And for those asking my read on MihZaaa it goes as thus: He overly liked superbia's post for the wrong reasons, I felt that Superbia's post was just filled with absolute crap but I do feel it was town motivated. I doubt any mafia would bring such a post day 1 with 1000 awful fill posts. MihZaaa on the other hand found a lot of insight in it. The only insight superbia's post gave was that he called out what he thought was a soft cop claim which is bad. Then: On August 27 2014 04:25 MihZaaa wrote: Paying close attention to potential slip-ups is really towny I feel. Barakos did the same thing and Superbia did it to me and this is pretty much my town circle right now. What bothers me is that the people I read as scummy have either not spoken lately or have barely spoken. I wouldn't like this to be a wasted lynch where we end up just lynching for inactivity but it seems that's the direction we're heading to. He he says he is going to be eagle scouting everyones posts for slip ups but fails to deliver anything. The Sheep On August 27 2014 04:31 MihZaaa wrote: I like this a lot because I think things got a little heavy. I am guilty of being aggressive at times and i think it's a good policy to push but not harass and to inquire but not interrogate. I'm happy none of the negative stuff didn't happen yet though. Of course you are going to sheep someone who thinks you are town but I see right through this post. It is nothing but agreeing with someone who likes you and fluff. On August 27 2014 08:08 MihZaaa wrote: Ill go to sleep now but before I go I'll leave some thoughts. From least scummy to most. Barakos Superbia and JennyHell Abuse People who haven't contributed enough: Lilwade Meatpudding Breshke Gobbledydook and Daydreamarine With lilwade contributing the most out of those 5. Out of the people I have gotten reads on I would lynch abuse the most but he's been much more useful to the town than the lurkers so I can't be happy with lynching him. I do think that the vote on abuse is still a little early and I'm not sure where I stand on Superbia already voting on 2 people in less than 24 hours. Every possible setup included 2 mafia so I would have liked to have a general idea of 2 scummy people by now but the scarcity of contribution does not allow me to do that. Here MihZaaa is contemplating lynching abuse because he is least town in his eyes or a lurker because no one likes lurkers. Why then did you not persue abuse or a lurker? instead you just say there is a scarcity of information which at the time almost everybody in the thread had atleast one scummy lead, but you chose to let it go to the next day. And then your one liner vote on gobble And then silence. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
ON DEADLINES @Players: You may PM me if they would like me to re-circulate the available deadlines. No new deadlines will be added. Sorry, but I cannot reliably accommodate other times. If I receive enough PMs to suggest the deadline would change, I will re-circulate. If I do not receive enough PMs, there will be no change. Please do not discuss this any further in the thread. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On August 29 2014 03:07 Amiko wrote: ON DEADLINES If I receive enough PMs to suggest the deadline would change, I will re-circulate. If I do receive enough PMs, there will be no change. Nice scumslip.  | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
fixed | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 29 2014 00:37 Superbia wrote: Barakos - voted on dook / semi-active during EoD Lots of substantial posts. Active and useful. Read and interacted with my posts in a very townie way. Says he "might have been blinded by his trollish undertone and therefore missed several slips and flaws." (with regards to my megaposts) but never revisits this. May have had better targets on day 1 (votes on dook in his next post, 5 hours later), but I would like to see a follow up. Absent for the last 1 1/2 hours of the EoD without notice. Never lynching you today, unless you scumslip hard. I dread the world in which you're mafia. I reread your whole filter and it really was a pain. :p I come to the conclusion, that no matter how I read your entrance-post, be it in a trollish tone or be it serious, it doesn't matter to me in the grand scheme of things right now, since it doesn't influence my general read on you. On the one hand you gain a lot of credit for stimulating the discussion in the thread but on the other hand... i took about 15 minutes to reread your first post and I am afraid I will have to do this over and over again during the course of this game. You got the biggest filter in the game by far, but lots of your posts are your interactions with abuse, that all are a result from your push, that - as I stated earlier - was legit in it's core but over the top in the details. This being said, I don't want to go through all this posts, since there are more pressing issues on my mind. Main thing being the misslynch, which the two of us have to take a major blame, so I'll be going through the way of your votes. You stuck with abuse for a really long time and unvoted him only quite late yesterday evening, when you saw no chance of him dieing. Right now you still got him in your scumpile, which is ok with me, as long as you don't tunnel as hard on him, as you did D1. What do you mean when you say he likes Breshkes reads? The only time abuse agreed on any of Breshkes reads, was when he said, that he agreed with Breshkes read on leaning town and the next time Breshke appears in abuses filter is, when abuse says, breshke has worked his way down on abuses ladder towards a "null/scum"-area. Unless I have missed one of abuses posts, this again looks like you are inflating a point abuse made and twist it to his disadvantage. Continuing with the vote: Well... it looks grim. The vote was placed and you didn't revoke it, although you stuck around till the end of night. But looking at your reasoning, I don't see obvious flaws. The post you quoted in your vote is the same post, that confirmed my vote on gobbledydook. I agree with your reasoning behind your vote and I also like the fact, that you stuck to it, although you had opportunities to change your vote to anybody else. For scum this would have been a golden opportunity to earn easy towncredit. You didn't take a chane I think many mafia would have taken and this makes you lean town to me. Now you are doing work again by giving out a new set of reads on everybody. I like it. This is town-work again. If you wouldn't seem so "tunnely" on abuse I would like it a lot more. To me it seems like you are holding some kind of grudge against abuse, that makes you see things he does in a more scummy way than they acutally are. I held - and still hold - my reservations towards him, too, but be more open towards differnt opportunities. At least now you recognize him as being active - I see this as a good start. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 29 2014 04:04 Barakos wrote: What do you mean when you say he likes Breshkes reads? The only time abuse agreed on any of Breshkes reads, was when he said, that he agreed with Breshkes read on leaning town and the next time Breshke appears in abuses filter is, when abuse says, breshke has worked his way down on abuses ladder towards a "null/scum"-area. Unless I have missed one of abuses posts, this again looks like you are inflating a point abuse made and twist it to his disadvantage. EBWOP: ... that he agreed with Breshkes read on me leaning town... | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 29 2014 01:30 lilwade wrote: My switch was to pressure gobble to try to bring a case for himself, but he crumbled and gave up. Which is something is hate to see in mafia. Artanis told me in the first game to just keep it cool and dont take it personal. Pressuring gobbledydook is a fair point. But what made you switch back? You say, you didn't like about MihZaaa, that he one-line-voted and then got all silent. As i see it, you did the same thing before end of day... On August 28 2014 09:24 lilwade wrote: If we get momentum going for MihZaaa I will go for it On August 28 2014 09:24 lilwade wrote: ##unvote ##vote: MihZaaa and then silence until now. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
Him liking Breshke's read was not really a point against abuse, but more an observation in general. I think if Breshke flips mafia it becomes relevant. I'm not planning on tunneling or pushing on him on day 2. Can you give some input on how you feel about MihZaaa? Do you think he might be mafia? If so, who do you think his partner is? Do you think Breshke is a decent lynch? Is there maybe a world where Marine is mafia, and his partner had to work alone so far? | ||
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JennyHell
Sweden259 Posts
The fair maidens of the town are wondering what thy name is. Would you be so kind as to indulge us? | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=23#456 How did you miss this? In case you are asking for a definite judgement, on how scummy MihZaaa is: he is one of the two most likely mafia at the moment. The other being Breshke. So this answers one of your next questions already. When it comes to mafiapartners: It would be somebody MihZaaaa is not definite about, since I think allying with your scumpartner this early in the game is something no sane mafia would do, since if one of them flips by getting lynched the main suspect would be on the partner, which is something nobody wants. On the other hand you wouldn't want to push your scumbuddy too hard, since there is the high chance, that it sticks with the thread (especially in an inactive game as we are in now). So it would have to be one of MihZaas Null/Bang-reads. This is the point, where it get's hard to interpret, since he is really inconsistent, when it comes to placing his reads. There is this post: On August 27 2014 08:08 MihZaaa wrote: Ill go to sleep now but before I go I'll leave some thoughts. From least scummy to most. Barakos Superbia and JennyHell Abuse People who haven't contributed enough: Lilwade Meatpudding Breshke Gobbledydook and Daydreamarine With lilwade contributing the most out of those 5. Out of the people I have gotten reads on I would lynch abuse the most but he's been much more useful to the town than the lurkers so I can't be happy with lynching him. He explains that abuse is his top lynch, and later on in his posts he deviates you from Jenny, saying that he is neutral on Jenny and has you in his towny corner. So in case of MihZaaa flipping red my suspects, who could be his scumpartner are Jenny and the people he had no read on at the moment he posted this. I can't give reads on the posibility of daydreamarine being mafia, since i he just isn't in any of my calculations at the moment. You can't read an empty book. That's the problem with him. Everything I post about him would be speculation and I don't want to throw out wild speculations based on the complete absence of one person. | ||
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JennyHell
Sweden259 Posts
Try to see it from the other end. What if I were to flip scum, who'd be my partner then? Do you still reach the same conclusion that it would be MihZaaaa? That said, how likely do you feel it is that I flip scum after I've been vomiting town all over this entire game? | ||
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