EPTI was superbly satisfied with the tournament, and I will most likely fund a larger amount next time. Destiny has always been a good guy, and it's nice to see the community finally catching on to that. I'm hopeful we'll see a lot more sustainable tournaments (meaning the organizer and all involved parties actually making money from their efforts) in the future as a result of the success of this tournament. People shaming Destiny for making a profit need to grow up and realize that not only is profit a requirement for longevity, but it actually also increases the quality of whatever you're producing. People who work for free or for weak incentives do poor work.
"Destiny I" Financial Report - Page 25
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KoRStarvid
Sweden767 Posts
I was superbly satisfied with the tournament, and I will most likely fund a larger amount next time. Destiny has always been a good guy, and it's nice to see the community finally catching on to that. I'm hopeful we'll see a lot more sustainable tournaments (meaning the organizer and all involved parties actually making money from their efforts) in the future as a result of the success of this tournament. People shaming Destiny for making a profit need to grow up and realize that not only is profit a requirement for longevity, but it actually also increases the quality of whatever you're producing. People who work for free or for weak incentives do poor work. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
As far as KeSPA, I think they're justified. When you're home to the most established players in the world, who are increasingly becoming the only relevant players, you don't just send them to every "grassroots" tournament. It sucks for you and for us, but KeSPA is looking to make sure that you're a legit tournament who isn't going to bring any negativity to their organization or fuck with their players. You failed on the first one, and I hope Chud isn't going to be so uptight about this whole situation that we never do see their players participating. It's a bit like the Smash scene though. Hold a couple "small" tournaments and prove that you're legit, and after putting in some work you then hold your "big" tournament and invite the big names. The big names will look and see that you're legit, that you don't squander or "lose" funds (which has happened in that scene, unfortunately) and if your prize is worth their time, they will come. | ||
disciple
9069 Posts
On August 13 2014 00:36 KoRStarvid wrote: Wow, Kespa's representative seems to be completely in denial. Spending zero resources and taking on zero risk for potential exposure for their players, teams, sponsors and brand, all while their scene is shrinking at an alarming rate would seem like a no-brainer. And their recommendation is that Destiny should try to build business relations with them, as if inviting Kespa-players wasn't a business invitation. I guess it has to do a lot with Korean culture(?), but the SC2-scene is international and they desperately need to adapt to that if they wish their SC2 scene to survive. No wonder they're having problems! I was superbly satisfied with the tournament, and I will most likely fund a larger amount next time. Destiny has always been a good guy, and it's nice to see the community finally catching on to that. I'm hopeful we'll see a lot more sustainable tournaments (meaning the organizer and all involved parties actually making money from their efforts) in the future as a result of the success of this tournament. People shaming Destiny for making a profit need to grow up and realize that not only is profit a requirement for longevity, but it actually also increases the quality of whatever you're producing. People who work for free or for weak incentives do poor work. I'm not completely sure about KeSPa being in trouble - their teams own really hard in LoL. So while some may feel their SC2 policy should adapt to the current status quo of the scene at the end their players represent the same brands and sponsors as their extremely in demand LoL teams. Imagine Manchester United having another team in a less popular team sport, say field hockey. Now should Manchester United accept playing in a field hockey start up tournament just because financially field hockey is in a worse state than football? | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
Good luck I guess. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On August 12 2014 01:01 plgElwood wrote: I am not decided on the KeSpA Thing. Everytime they should interact with another Organization they act arrogant While I'll agree that KeSPA can make some infuriating decisions, it's completely understandable why they reacted in the way that they did for this tournament. This is the first time that this tournament has been run and with no sponsors or anything to validate the integrity of the tournament, who's to say that Destiny wouldn't just run away with all the money? With that being said you've validated the tournament by successfully running it this time and it will only hurt the KeSPA players themselves if you don't allow them in next time you run this tournament. I do agree with what someone else said in that just a few KeSPA players would be fine, don't overrun the tournament with them. | ||
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delHospital
Poland261 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:16 disciple wrote: I'm not completely sure about KeSPa being in trouble - their teams own really hard in LoL. So while some may feel their SC2 policy should adapt to the current status quo of the scene at the end their players represent the same brands and sponsors as their extremely in demand LoL teams. Imagine Manchester United having another team in a less popular team sport, say field hockey. Now should Manchester United accept playing in a field hockey start up tournament just because financially field hockey is in a worse state than football? But that's exactly what happens with clubs that have multiple sections, no? As an example, let's look at Legia Warszawa. They have sections in ~20 sports, and in some of them they have multiple teams. You can't expect all of those teams to participate only in the most prestigious tournaments. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:18 orvinreyes wrote: Ok, had mad respect at first, but at this rate it just seems like Destiny is being all cocky and not knowing his place in the industry as an indie startup. Unless you have a very attractive investor deck and capture some great sponsors, all you will get are rogue players like MC, Hyun, and other unsigned money-mongering Koreans to play for you. The only alternative is if you have great relations with KeSPA to begin with, which you obviously don't have. You could have personally flown to KeSPA HQ (assume the travel costs in good faith) and presented/negotiated your piece to management, but instead you decide to carelessly lash it out online. Good luck I guess. Money mongering rogue players? How does that description make any bit of sense lol. It's just a simple online tournament bro. Investor decks don't need to enter into the discussion, just let your players sit at their desk And play for a little. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:24 Doodsmack wrote: Money mongering rogue players? How does that description make any bit of sense lol. It's just a simple online tournament bro. Investor decks don't need to enter into the discussion, just let your players sit at their desk And play for a little. Bleh, I think all those blindly going against KeSPA here haven't had significant corporate experience to even understand well established concepts like risk mitigation, trade offs, asset management, etc. that go into KeSPA's decision making and are thinking on a very "mom and pop" business level. KeSPA tends to be on the conservative side but it is very understandable. | ||
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disciple
9069 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:22 delHospital wrote: But that's exactly what happens with clubs that have multiple sections, no? You mean taking chances? Like Barcelonas basketball team participating in smaller tournaments for the buck? I dont think this is exactly what happens with clubs that have multiple sections - those try to legitimize and improve competition in another sport by using their very recognisible brand and probably using their huge fanbase to market their teams in a new sport. Many die hard FC Barcelona fans go to the games of their basketball team to support them although originally those fans may not have a big interest in basketball. | ||
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zenxbear
France5 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:18 orvinreyes wrote: Ok, had mad respect at first, but at this rate it just seems like Destiny is being all cocky and not knowing his place in the industry as an indie startup. Unless you have a very attractive investor deck and capture some great sponsors, all you will get are rogue players like MC, Hyun, and other unsigned money-mongering Koreans to play for you. The only alternative is if you have great relations with KeSPA to begin with, which you obviously don't have. You could have personally flown to KeSPA HQ (assume the travel costs in good faith) and presented/negotiated your piece to management, but instead you decide to carelessly lash it out online. Good luck I guess. so Destiny's 4000$ 16 players invitational shouldn't get anything beside rogue players. But Pughy's 1000$ 8 players invitational gets Cure, Solar and Armani from KeSPA!! Let's wait for the Pughy's view ratings, to see who was cocky. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:26 orvinreyes wrote: Bleh, I think all those blindly going against KeSPA here haven't had significant corporate experience to even understand well established concepts like risk mitigation, trade offs, asset management, etc. that go into KeSPA's decision making and are thinking on a very "mom and pop" business level. KeSPA tends to be on the conservative side but it is very understandable. Again it's just a simple online tournament. Those business concepts don't need to enter into the discussion. The tournament is not going to have a business impact on Kespa, it's just for a couple players to sit at their desk and play. | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:32 disciple wrote: You mean taking chances? Like Barcelonas basketball team participating in smaller tournaments for the buck? I dont think this is exactly what happens with clubs that have multiple sections - those try to legitimize and improve competition in another sport by using their very recognisible brand and probably using their huge fanbase to market their teams in a new sport. Many die hard FC Barcelona fans go to the games of their basketball team to support them although originally those fans may not have a big interest in basketball. And I am pretty sure this is exactly what also happens with SC2 in Korea right now  | ||
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JimSocks
United States968 Posts
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Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
But again, KeSPA is not about protecting player interests, first, it is about protecting sponsorship interests first. Cmon, destiny, use more your brain little bit more u did only half the job  A bustling foreigner scene is as good for Korea as a bustling Korean scene is as good for everyone in the West, surely everyone here believes that, right? GO GO destiny saves SC2, saves esports XD. And seriously, no. korean scene already moved to others games. West scene...there're already enought kor players  the real issue is that we're still waiting for foreigner structures to get organize.... Even if for kespa players, it can be a good opportunity to earn ez money it shouldnt not be the same in the long terme ( i hope :p ). Also, i wonder how much % of them will agree to participate in such events because i imagine you need to prepare a lot when your opponent is maru ^^ TB got kespa with Sandisk, dragon invitational 1,2,3,4 are full with skilled korean players. WHAT WE NEED IS WHAT DESTINY DID !!!!! local tournaments hosting/hosted by local casters/players are the solution and to grow events where pple can easly related to must be a priority. It will also help sponsoship to more diversify by bringing local sponsors. ( ogaming drama dailymotion vs twitch blablabla for france is a really really closed example local economy fr vs blizzard economy but the're the same type of sponsor, isp/soft-hardware, our current sponsorship base) Now that WCS is settled, the web of sc2 need to grow and expand her ends so it can spread more depply in the population and be considered as a "normal" event like soccer and when everything seems normal we will strat the contamiition to increased the size of the swarm in order to defeat Amon. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:35 zenxbear wrote: so Destiny's 4000$ 16 players invitational shouldn't get anything beside rogue players. But Pughy's 1000$ 8 players invitational gets Cure, Solar and Armani from KeSPA!! Let's wait for the Pughy's view ratings, to see who was cocky. Ok cool, another tourney allegedly with KeSPA players. 3 possibilities: 1. Either KeSPA does not know about this, players risk penalties or 2. Pughy has leverage through relationships with players (?) 3. Pughy actually negotiated this properly with KeSPA I don't see any official statements from parties involved, so yeah you're right let's see how this unfolds | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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KoRStarvid
Sweden767 Posts
On August 13 2014 01:16 disciple wrote: I'm not completely sure about KeSPa being in trouble - their teams own really hard in LoL. So while some may feel their SC2 policy should adapt to the current status quo of the scene at the end their players represent the same brands and sponsors as their extremely in demand LoL teams. Imagine Manchester United having another team in a less popular team sport, say field hockey. Now should Manchester United accept playing in a field hockey start up tournament just because financially field hockey is in a worse state than football? I agree completely that the organisation Kespa as a whole is probably just fine! It is only their SC2 section that needs to update their policies as far as I'm aware, and it is only that which I recommend. However, if Man United has a field hockey division, and there is potential value in having a field hockey division (monetary or goodwill), then if the opportunity arises to get some additional brand and sponsor exposure for that division essentially for free, then they should accept, not because field hockey is in a worse state than soccer, but because field hockey (in this analog) runs the risk of dying if they don't. If Kespa wants to run SC2 on charity resources overflowing from LoL, then they can probably do that, but it seems utterly stupid to not take an opportunity to strengthen the SC2 division on its own merits. What do they imagine that they can lose by not doing that? EDIT: Just to clarify: By having a living scene, I mean that there is actual competetion going on with an actual audience watching. I truly believe that Kespa can afford running proleague off of resources coming from LoL and other things that they do, but I highly doubt that they will have enough of an audience watching to justify it if they don't update their model. | ||
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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Jampackedeon
United States2053 Posts
Thanks for the transparency and the dedication to the SC2 community! | ||
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