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So Cav, who do you think is scum then?
I don't understand your logic for why my post on policy was strange -- people were joking around and posting stupid stuff and then I made it so that people would no longer post stupid stuff. Did you want the amount of stupid stuff to continue to pile up? How else are we supposed to get into discussion mode?
As I observed, this isn't the same exact reason why you died: the context is a bit different. You were already suspicious of Amiko that game, you were never suspicious of Eden this game and suddenly you place a kneejerk vote on him. wtf?
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On March 27 2014 01:05 Eden1892 wrote:
You're talking around the points I made -- again -- and making really stretched parallels to another game -- again -- in an attempt to distort what I'm saying -- again.
For the rest of the town, here are the issues with Cavalinho's last post:
- He's distorting my arguments here. Specifically: he's framing my expectation that his questions have some purpose to them to mean that I expect him to walk us through every thought he has on the game; he's misinterpreting a question I posed ("why does he think OK is not mafia?" into "why does he think OK is mafia?") to avoid answering it; and he's introducing things I didn't talk about at all (him sleeping and not scumhunting as a result) in an effort to garner sympathy or otherwise discredit my arguments.
- He's still not explained his vote for me at all. In fact he's claiming to have sheeped onto a vote...? But he's the only one voting for me.
Lol, and I'm the one misinterpreting things. I gave you reasoning as to why OK is town. I don't need to tell you why I don't think he's mafia if I think he's town. I already told you it was because he's scumhunting like he was in his last game, but you're just going to ignore that to make yourself seem more right.
And I never said I was sheeping onto a vote. I said I did that last game, and that I died for it. I said I was agreeing with someone here and that parallels can be drawn between the two.
You know what I think? I think that you're just pouncing on what you perceive to be town weakness. If LT is town, I think that you're just looking for people to push for flimsy reasoning. You don't seem to particularly care very much about what people are saying and just look for things you can poke holes in. I'm going to stay on my vote for now, I see no reason to change it.
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I need to sleep so ill be going off.
I want to see val and sqrt post more. It has been 18 hours and they haven't done anything of note. Val promised to post something earlier, so I expect to see something when I wake up.
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On March 27 2014 01:14 OnceKing wrote:
So Cav, who do you think is scum then?
I don't understand your logic for why my post on policy was strange -- people were joking around and posting stupid stuff and then I made it so that people would no longer post stupid stuff. Did you want the amount of stupid stuff to continue to pile up? How else are we supposed to get into discussion mode?
As I observed, this isn't the same exact reason why you died: the context is a bit different. You were already suspicious of Amiko that game, you were never suspicious of Eden this game and suddenly you place a kneejerk vote on him. wtf?
Read above as to why I think he's scummy.
Also, starting discussion isn't scummy. I thought your reasoning behind what you did was solid and that's why I dropped that tangent. At the time, it was like "what's with this policy crap nothing has happened yet." I guess I just think policy lynches are a last resort and that starting discussion with something like that is pretty peculiar.
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Kindle is dying. Will return later to yell some more.
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I don't think that Cavalinho has really addressed the bulk of my concerns with his play so far, and I also don't think it's by accident, but I find myself unable to articulate why I don't like his last post, which is starting to make me reconsider. A lot of the things I'm still having issues with right now -- the tone and writing style, the apparent directionless demeanor of his questions, my read on why he OMGUS'd then -- are mostly unfalsifiable, which is a problem.
One major outstanding issue though is his rationale for voting for me. Everything that he said about me in the one post where he's explained himself is false, and his vote appears to be contingent on Last Tolkein being town. However, he voted for me before I said anything about LT. Thus the rationale he provided cannot be the original rationale he had for voting for me.
I would still prefer Lord Tolkein as I think it's obvious that he lied initially about his reads and then kept telling lies to cover up the first ones. I think my case on LT is stronger.
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So when you get back could you tell me why you just... found reasons to stick with your vote instead of building your case up to the point of a vote? It's very inconsistent -- you build cases by making points and arriving at a conclusion, not making a conclusion and then trying to find details that support it. You also have yet to address my point that the context is actually different due to the fact that you didn't voice suspicion of Eden until after you had voted for him.
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LT gave a fake read, that's what I'm seeing. Lying? Yes, but scummy? No. It's only odd that he was so impatient and pulled in his trap early. It's just odd that he hasn't put down a vote yet though he's casting aspersions in several directions.
Wanna explain this LT?
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Okay, going down the filter list.
OnceKing brings up policy.
I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it.
I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However. OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far. IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town. Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me. Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me. Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here. Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like and should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle. Show nested quote +I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing. This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say. You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing. sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns. Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote:
RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going. The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy. Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me. Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you. Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more.
His next post is this:
On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. Show nested quote +- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much. Show nested quote +- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious). Show nested quote +- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him? My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes? Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town.
If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out.
Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does.
He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do.
The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange.
I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
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On March 27 2014 01:40 OnceKing wrote:
LT gave a fake read, that's what I'm seeing. Lying? Yes, but scummy? No. It's only odd that he was so impatient and pulled in his trap early. It's just odd that he hasn't put down a vote yet though he's casting aspersions in several directions.
Wanna explain this LT?
He gave a fake read and called it a trap, yes. But it's not that he lied about the read, it's that he's lying about the trap. I think that's pretty obvious given the points I raised in this post.
Even aside from all that there are multiple other issues:
- the certainty in all of his reads including on multiple people who hadn't said anything
- the strong push for a sqrt lynch based on nothing
- reading Cavalinho as top scum, but neither voting for him nor pressuring him in any discernible way
- related to above two, waffling on his Cavalinho read (while still reading him top scum) despite being certain of the others
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I think LT is more suspicious atm. I want him to explain.
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On March 27 2014 01:31 Eden1892 wrote:
I don't think that Cavalinho has really addressed the bulk of my concerns with his play so far, and I also don't think it's by accident, but I find myself unable to articulate why I don't like his last post, which is starting to make me reconsider. A lot of the things I'm still having issues with right now -- the tone and writing style, the apparent directionless demeanor of his questions, my read on why he OMGUS'd then -- are mostly unfalsifiable, which is a problem.
One major outstanding issue though is his rationale for voting for me. Everything that he said about me in the one post where he's explained himself is false, and his vote appears to be contingent on Last Tolkein being town. However, he voted for me before I said anything about LT. Thus the rationale he provided cannot be the original rationale he had for voting for me.
I would still prefer Lord Tolkein as I think it's obvious that he lied initially about his reads and then kept telling lies to cover up the first ones. I think my case on LT is stronger.
So I just got my hands on a computer and I'm about to get my story straight with some of my reads. Before I do, I want to address this.
You keep saying I'm not giving you answers. I've answered your questions on basically everything, but you just keep saying that I'm not cooperating and that I'm not giving you information. Every time I give you an answer on something, you just turn around and go "no, he isn't addressing anything." Except, I'm actually doing exactly that and it's really starting to bug me that you keep trying to poke holes in things.
The only thing you've brought up that has actually had some kind of purpose was the vote on you. I will 100% admit that it was initially nothing more than a baseless OMGUS. I got frustrated at getting focused day 1 (again) and just went "meh, fuck it."
When I actually sat down to look at things from a more rational perspective...It just looks like you're pushing me based on the fact that I'm not giving you answers or because you don't like the way I say things. You keep mentioning reactions and the like, but all of that stuff is based on your own perception which I've addressed already. Most of your supposed "case" boils down to "I don't like the way he is saying things," which does not make me mafia.
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On March 27 2014 01:44 sqrtofneg1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, going down the filter list. OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town. Eden is clearly town. Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him. LT clears Val in this post: On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However. OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far. IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town. Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me. Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me. Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here. Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like and should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle. Show nested quote +I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing. This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say. You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing. sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns. Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote:
RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going. The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy. Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me. Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you. Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this. Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this: On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. Show nested quote +- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much. Show nested quote +- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious). Show nested quote +- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him? My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes? Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on. He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia. + Show Spoiler +He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out.
Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does.
He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do.
The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange.
I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town.
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On March 27 2014 02:32 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 01:44 sqrtofneg1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, going down the filter list. OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town. Eden is clearly town. Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him. LT clears Val in this post: On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However. OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far. IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town. Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me. Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me. Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here. Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like and should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle. Show nested quote +I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing. This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say. You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing. sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns. Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote:
RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going. The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy. Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me. Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you. Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this. Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this: On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. Show nested quote +- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much. Show nested quote +- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious). Show nested quote +- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him? My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes? Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on. He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia. + Show Spoiler +He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out.
Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does.
He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do.
The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange.
I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val. I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town.
Hmm, but why would he call Val as town in the first place?
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On March 27 2014 02:36 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 02:32 IAmRobik wrote:On March 27 2014 01:44 sqrtofneg1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, going down the filter list. OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town. Eden is clearly town. Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him. LT clears Val in this post: On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However. OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far. IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town. Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me. Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me. Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here. Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like and should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle. Show nested quote +I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing. This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say. You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing. sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns. Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote:
RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going. The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy. Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me. Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you. Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this. Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this: On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. Show nested quote +- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much. Show nested quote +- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious). Show nested quote +- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him? My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes? Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on. He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia. + Show Spoiler +He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out.
Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does.
He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do.
The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange.
I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val. I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town. Hmm, but why would he call Val as town in the first place?
I mean... he has to townread people as either alignment. I'm not him. I don't know why he makes the reads/plays he makes.
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From what i understand (wtf LT..) of his post, he was trying to bait anyone into agreeing blindly with him on those reads.
By putting me as an obvious town despite myself having done fuck all so far this game, it would draw a massive flag to anyone just agreeing with his post. It got called out pretty much immediately as a wtf post (rightly so) and he explained that was his plan.
LT, i can sort of.. understand what you were trying' but damn man.. that execution was horrific.
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Makes sense now, kind of.
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Also i'm home now.
for anyone who didn't play with me two games ago, this (now to now+6 or 7 hours) is pretty much the only posting time i can get. it sucks, and im sorry for that.
i'll be as helpful as possible during this time, and if anyone want's to leave me questions go ahead and i'll try pick them up. if i dont answer anything, let me know and ill look at it again~
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##Unvote
doesn't make much sense to keep that vote on considering we've progressed past Hearthstone talk.
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EPT
