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On February 16 2014 02:15 YPang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 01:31 VoiceSC wrote:
I never expected so many people to comment on here, it's been great reading all the advice you've given me.
I know some of you say you need natural talent to go somewhere, but I don't believe that's the case. A lot of people don't become pro because they just give up, lose passion for the game, or they really don't want to be a progamer. I've tried making a league team of people around my skill level of other people who want to go pro, but 2 of them have fallen through because I see those people really aren't dedicated. I know I am though.
I agree with you, i used to have this limiting belief that i wasn't talented enough and wouldn't be able to go where i want to because of that holding me back. I also now believe that you don't necessarily need talent but if you're not extroardinarily gifted, you do need to put in more work than the others. IF you can't put in more hours, you need to put in more quality in those hours. It's absurd to say that every korean progamer made it to where they are due to extreme talent + hardwork, all the top violinists, pianists and muscians around the world made it to the top due to both extreme talent and hard work, and all the pro athletes that's made it to that level, or if all the top entrepreneurs are all extremely talented + hard working. Again, the TOP TOP percentile are definitely extremely talented + hard working, but the rest of them? probably not as talented as you might think.
I agree with you that it's possible to be successful with just hard work alone. But in the case of progaming, it's impossible to be financially successful with hard work alone as you need to be in that top 0.1% to make decent money. Otherwise, most likely you will be living in poverty or fairly close to it anyways.
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I think your family is supportive of you, because they offer you a place to live in and food.
And not supporting your impulse to *go pro* is the right think to do for them.
I mean you cant go pro, its not a decision you can make and it will pan out.
You actually have to be top of the line to become pro.
How many tournaments have you won? I think there are enough semi pro and community tournaments around to make a splash if you are really good at it, but I don't think that this is the case with you.
And I tell you, if you have poured the hours you spent in LOL into finding a job, you would have one by now.
And I have another surprise for you, no one craves the usual 9-5 jobs and every single human thinks he is special and in a way they are but not in the way you think. That's something you have yet to learn.
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There are progamers that live off of playing alone, and there are those that compete with them but don't do as well and also have a job on the side to pay for their livings. However, that is not to say that you cannot reach that top % without hardwork itself unless you're like physically handicapped like without a thumb, or mentally handicapped with an IQ floating around or right above qualifying for mental issues.
I truly believe that as long as you're not untalented, you can reach the level of play progamers play, maybe not the world champion, or even the top 50. But you can be definitely be competitive. I seriously don't think that all the professionals are innately superhumans in gaming. There is bound to be at least a couple that got to where they are through hard work, and playing and being more focused than the others.
One of the criterias to reaching that level is of course being in a life or death situation, or what seems like one at the time.
For example: When CJ Entus first started off as a BW team, they only ate ramen and canned foods, barely made enough to make a living. They KNEW they must win in order to eat, and as a result they did all they can in order to make that happen. There are countless examples like this where when one is forced to be successful they will pull through, however, it is only when they view it as a life or death situation will they give it a honest 100% effort.
Reading from the OP, i believe that he is currently in or close to be in one of those situations. If he will give himself just 1 year to do something amazing in SC2, i think that's all he will need. 1 year of 100% commitment, no off days, no excuses and see where it'll take him. Hell, if he doesn't make it or come EXTREMELY close in that 1 year i'll be shocked. Assuming he gives a 100% honest effort. If he played for 12 hours a day x 365 days = 4380 hours a year. If you can commit yourself to that and not burn out, you can have whatever you want.
Often times, the difference between a person that "makes" it and a person that doesn't is their willingness to try and keep going when it gets tough. You cannot fail if you don't stop trying. However, the only limit to that is if you run out of resources such as money.
And also, if getting sponsered is one of your goals, yes, you must be very good at playing SC2. But also, you must also be very good at marketting. Start building up your twitter and facebook followers, because when you do get sponsered the company will be looking for your ability to not only play good, but to market. The company is paying you to sell their keyboards/mouse/T-shirts...etc. It's no good to them if you are just good but can't market or advertise. So something that you can do now is to possibly release your build order notes or make strategy guides on TL, or even possibly offer coaching. Those are all ways you can start becoming more popular in the community. And again, being good at playing SC2 is one thing, but being good at playing SC2 and being able to advertise is what will get you sponsers.
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you shouldn't be going into esports for the money. The reality is you will most likely not be able to support your fiance let alone a future family
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i think i need to rephrase, what i meant was that you need to find a viable part time/full time job and let that be your main priority. You can continue to keep training for league of legends professional, BUT only quit your job after you actually are in the top 1% not the other way around you are doing now
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On February 16 2014 05:17 Kingsky wrote:
i think i need to rephrase, what i meant was that you need to find a viable part time/full time job and let that be your main priority. You can continue to keep training for league of legends professional, BUT only quit your job after you actually are in the top 1% not the other way around you are doing now
That never happens. Once someone gets a real job, the attraction of money becomes too strong and/or they lose motivation to go pro. Also, because they're at work a good part of the day, they lose time to practice. Without enough practice they will never be able to reach a professional level.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 16 2014 04:17 YPang wrote:
There are progamers that live off of playing alone, and there are those that compete with them but don't do as well and also have a job on the side to pay for their livings. However, that is not to say that you cannot reach that top % without hardwork itself unless you're like physically handicapped like without a thumb, or mentally handicapped with an IQ floating around or right above qualifying for mental issues.
I truly believe that as long as you're not untalented, you can reach the level of play progamers play, maybe not the world champion, or even the top 50. But you can be definitely be competitive. I seriously don't think that all the professionals are innately superhumans in gaming. There is bound to be at least a couple that got to where they are through hard work, and playing and being more focused than the others.
That's the worst place to be. Not only are you playing games all day. You're also not good enough to get any recognition from it.
On February 16 2014 04:17 YPang wrote:
For example: When CJ Entus first started off as a BW team, they only ate ramen and canned foods, barely made enough to make a living. They KNEW they must win in order to eat, and as a result they did all they can in order to make that happen. There are countless examples like this where when one is forced to be successful they will pull through, however, it is only when they view it as a life or death situation will they give it a honest 100% effort.
They were also a team with a champion in xellos and talented progamers like savior.
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I'd like to make a few points to clear things up:
1) The reason I'm pursuing this is because I don't have a job. I'm still looking and getting a job is my top priority, I actually have an interview in a few days. My plan is to get a good job, move out near my fiance (she's currently 45 minutes away and drives to see me), and in the time where I'm not working or seeing her, practice with quality. I believe I'm better at learning with both quality and quantity, not an extreme of one over the other. While I look for a job, I will be practicing.
2) Some people have said that my fiance might leave me if she has to deal with the stress and if it takes too long. Her and I have already discussed it, I know she would never leave me, but at the same time I would never neglect her or our future together. She's my everything, I'd drop gaming in an instant for her.
3) I'm pursuing League of Legends (more options to make a name for myself) not SC2. I used to be semi-pro at SC2, but switched. My OP was confusing I know.
4) If people follow League at all, there is a player named Bubbadub in the LCS. He was working full-time and quit his job for a year to go pro. He went from gold to challenger and achieved what he wanted. He's also married, he's on Determined Gaming with some well known people in the league scene.
5) Someone mentioned getting yourself out there and someone mentioned networking (not in that word). I actually have friends that know Bubbadub, I've talked with him a few times myself. I also have contact with the coach from team LoLPro and the owner of LYGF in SC2.
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Don't think it's worth pursuing LoL, from what you write it doesn't seem like you're passionate for it. For what it's worth I hope you find what you search, good luck.
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On February 16 2014 08:36 VoiceSC wrote:
I'd like to make a few points to clear things up:
1) The reason I'm pursuing this is because I don't have a job. I'm still looking and getting a job is my top priority, I actually have an interview in a few days. My plan is to get a good job, move out near my fiance (she's currently 45 minutes away and drives to see me), and in the time where I'm not working or seeing her, practice with quality. I believe I'm better at learning with both quality and quantity, not an extreme of one over the other. While I look for a job, I will be practicing.
2) Some people have said that my fiance might leave me if she has to deal with the stress and if it takes too long. Her and I have already discussed it, I know she would never leave me, but at the same time I would never neglect her or our future together. She's my everything, I'd drop gaming in an instant for her.
3) I'm pursuing League of Legends (more options to make a name for myself) not SC2. I used to be semi-pro at SC2, but switched. My OP was confusing I know.
4) If people follow League at all, there is a player named Bubbadub in the LCS. He was working full-time and quit his job for a year to go pro. He went from gold to challenger and achieved what he wanted. He's also married, he's on Determined Gaming with some well known people in the league scene.
5) Someone mentioned getting yourself out there and someone mentioned networking (not in that word). I actually have friends that know Bubbadub, I've talked with him a few times myself. I also have contact with the coach from team LoLPro and the owner of LYGF in SC2.
For point #1, I am not sure how playing LoL 12 hours a day will help you get a job. If getting a job is your top priority, I would recommend cutting down your playing time for a bit until you get a job. Finding a job is not just about sending a few resumes out and then just waiting.
If you think getting a HR job is harder than going pro in LoL, I don't know what to tell you.
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On February 15 2014 14:24 VoiceSC wrote:
I know a lot of you think me wanting to go pro is a stupid idea, but you're the type of people the stick to the norm and that's just not me. I want something different, I crave something different than the usual 9-5 job. So please don't keep telling me that this is a waste of time, because it's all a matter of opinion.
Going pro IS a stupid idea, it's only viable for a short amount of time unless you are one of the best (you aren't) and the money isn't even great unless you are one of the best (you aren't).
Life has so much more to offer than pro video gaming, you don't have to work a boring 9-5 and the only other option isn't pro gaming.
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On February 16 2014 15:59 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 14:24 VoiceSC wrote:
I know a lot of you think me wanting to go pro is a stupid idea, but you're the type of people the stick to the norm and that's just not me. I want something different, I crave something different than the usual 9-5 job. So please don't keep telling me that this is a waste of time, because it's all a matter of opinion. Going pro IS a stupid idea, it's only viable for a short amount of time unless you are one of the best (you aren't) and the money isn't even great unless you are one of the best (you aren't). Life has so much more to offer than pro video gaming, you don't have to work a boring 9-5 and the only other option isn't pro gaming.
I'm curious now. What other options to a 9-5 are you thinking about?
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On February 16 2014 20:01 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 15:59 Esoterikk wrote:On February 15 2014 14:24 VoiceSC wrote:
I know a lot of you think me wanting to go pro is a stupid idea, but you're the type of people the stick to the norm and that's just not me. I want something different, I crave something different than the usual 9-5 job. So please don't keep telling me that this is a waste of time, because it's all a matter of opinion. Going pro IS a stupid idea, it's only viable for a short amount of time unless you are one of the best (you aren't) and the money isn't even great unless you are one of the best (you aren't). Life has so much more to offer than pro video gaming, you don't have to work a boring 9-5 and the only other option isn't pro gaming. I'm curious now. What other options to a 9-5 are you thinking about?
That's exactly what I'd like to know.
On February 16 2014 12:25 krndandaman wrote:
No offense, but Bubbadub is more of a semi-pro as well and I doubt he makes much money. While Determined Gaming is one of the better challenger teams, the chances of them making it to the actual LCS is rather low, let alone stay in the LCS even if they do make it. Not to mention, he is an anomaly.
His team got acquired by Complexity and I know first hand that he is now salaried and this is a first step to him being in the LCS. All in all you're being a pretty negative person about all of this.
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Dude are you serious? Think from your fiance's perspective, you have no job and are playing a video game for 12 hours a day trying to be "pro". Even nerds here at TL see that as a ludicrous idea, imagine how a normal person not accustomed to e-sports will see it. You are literally throwing not only your own life away at a video game, but also neglecting your family and fiance in the process.
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I was going to say you can probably do it until I read
"2) Some people have said that my fiance might leave me if she has to deal with the stress and if it takes too long. Her and I have already discussed it, I know she would never leave me, but at the same time I would never neglect her or our future together. She's my everything, I'd drop gaming in an instant for her."
It's no joke, man. People are really really good at this stuff. Some people had older siblings and a mind to pick up games and win.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that skill just appears out of thin air for those who work hard enough and are talented enough. The truth is that some communities foster skill better than others. It's like the vocal class thing,
Everyone thinks they can go on American Idol if they can only show everyone how great their individual talent is. The truth is that you have to have the look thats in style. You have to have the right type of genre selections. Things are not quite as just as the movies make them out.
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hi OP, how much time/effort have you spent on finding a job? I know you said its been 10 months, but how much time do you spend every week sending out applications, networking, and working on your interview skills etc?
also: have you considered grad school? If you have no money, have you considered student loans or lines of credit? (I'm assuming you live in Canada)
edit: does your fiance have a job, or going to get a job?
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The problem is that being a pro gamer isn't like being say a musician. You can be a musician or writer, or other 'dream job' and make enough money to live on purely through hard work. You don't have to become a superstar. But a progamer does, as only the very top few can make a living.
To continue the analogy, it's kind of like someone who has won a couple of minor singing competitions and is currently in an above average pub band, saying they want to be the next John Lennon/Bruce Springsteen/insert artist you like. It's a tough ask, especially when that person is in a stressful financial situation and has people already relying on them for support.
You are competing against teenagers who have no responsibilities, more time and possibly more talent. What do you have over them? The only way you could be better than them is if you have learned to use practice extremely efficiently. But the opposite seems to be true. If you can play 12 hours a day and not be in Diamond it's a bad sign. The other edge you could have is being cool under pressure, born out of your experience in gaming. But because of the problems in your life this doesn't seem to be true either.
So that's the negative side.
On the positive side you are obviously a decent player, and have the support of a loving fiancée. It's possible that with a dramatic change in how you practice you could make some kind of breakthrough in your play. Without parental support though, you aren't going to be able to make it at home, so the job comes first.
A possible plan would be to cut your gaming to 3 hours a day, and use all your time to secure a job. With more efficient practising you could still progress, and even with a job you could still do 3 hours a day. The full time job will help you build the discipline you'll need in the future. In one year that gives you over 1000 hours of LoL. If you have what it takes you will hit Challenger and can start considering a pro gaming career from a much better position.
Good luck!
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On February 16 2014 08:36 VoiceSC wrote:
I'd like to make a few points to clear things up:
1) The reason I'm pursuing this is because I don't have a job. I'm still looking and getting a job is my top priority, I actually have an interview in a few days. My plan is to get a good job, move out near my fiance (she's currently 45 minutes away and drives to see me), and in the time where I'm not working or seeing her, practice with quality. I believe I'm better at learning with both quality and quantity, not an extreme of one over the other. While I look for a job, I will be practicing.
2) Some people have said that my fiance might leave me if she has to deal with the stress and if it takes too long. Her and I have already discussed it, I know she would never leave me, but at the same time I would never neglect her or our future together. She's my everything, I'd drop gaming in an instant for her.
3) I'm pursuing League of Legends (more options to make a name for myself) not SC2. I used to be semi-pro at SC2, but switched. My OP was confusing I know.
4) If people follow League at all, there is a player named Bubbadub in the LCS. He was working full-time and quit his job for a year to go pro. He went from gold to challenger and achieved what he wanted. He's also married, he's on Determined Gaming with some well known people in the league scene.
5) Someone mentioned getting yourself out there and someone mentioned networking (not in that word). I actually have friends that know Bubbadub, I've talked with him a few times myself. I also have contact with the coach from team LoLPro and the owner of LYGF in SC2.
I just have to add one more thing and that is if you want to support a family, you really shouldn't be in progaming. It's really only for those with extreme amount of passion in gaming and willing to throw away their entire life for its sake.
As I have mentioned before, only those at the very very top make a lot money, the rest are barely surviving on a day to day basis.
I don't know how tough the competition is in LoL nor in SC2. But just to give you some perspective, this is how it used to work in the foreign scene in BW(numbers are just estimates):
If you are D rank, you are better than 90% of people who have touched the game (well you are among the lowest among the people who are actually trying to win)
C - you are better than 99% of people
B - you are better than 99.9% of people
A - you are better than 99.99% of people
Now that you have reached A rank, congratuations, you are now among the lowest among the amateurs/semi-pro players. You want to be a progamer? Now you have to climb another ridiculous ladder, this time against people who play at least 8 hours a day(most likely 12).
Let's see among those amateurs, maybe only 10% of them actually make it to a team.
Among them, only 10% actually get to play games live.
And among them, only 10% actually manage to win consistently and hence are paid well. (This is where you want to be at least financially)
And among them only 10% are among the top players and make shit tons of money.
Of course, I didn't consider other factor which is you have to move to Korea to even try and be pro, but I don't think that's necessary for LoL as you seem to imply from your post. These are all estimates but this should give you an idea of how talented, dedicated and tough progamers are.
Edit: If you still want to pursue it, then good luck to you. I have said all that I can. But I would at least suggest finding a way to live independently first, so that you aren't just leeching from the people around you.
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EPT
