Yeah, so I just had a nasty debate with someone on IRC. Basically, said someone said 'n-word', so I said 'What do you think happens if you just say "nigger" out full, you think people might get brain cancer? We all know what it means, just say it, doesn't make you racist.', well, apparently that makes me racist was the conclusion she came to. No, I'm sorry, I just think obfuscations like n**** or f*ck, or sh*t are stupid. Everyone knows what they mean alright, it's not like people suffer some kind of disease from being exposed to them.
So, this obviously brings us back to Orb and his "dumb nigger risk" debacle. Does anyone actually believe it was exemplary of 'racism' what he did? I mean come on, swear words that were once isolated to a specific group very often get generalized to a larger group. Words like 'bitch' are nowadays quite often applied to men even though they once only were to women. Hell, we all use words like 'lame' and 'dumb' as random insults, let's not forgot that these words are technically insults aimed at people who can't walk or speak respectively. Jesus healed the lame remember? Most people seem to completely forget what 'lame' actually means. Well, so did Orb forget it when he said 'dumb nigger risk', is he a pathetic whining piece of shit who can't control his emotions? Yeah. Does that make him racist? No, not really. You have to consider the context, the context is obvious here that Orb meant nothing to black people. If you say "Fucking niggers should get out of our country.", now that is racist. Likewise "Fucking African-Americans should get out of our country." is racist. Use, or lack thereof, of the word nigger does not magically transform something into racism or takes it away. Please, let us look at the context in which the words appear. It's pretty easy to infer it and let's assume good faith in cases of ambiguity.
Okay, so he got fired. Can't blame Garfield, EG is a business in the end. His entire story was absolutely sanctimonious bullshit though. Come on, he waited like what, 3 days? Obviously to see if the storm calms down, supposedly to 'confirm the rumours', are you shitting me? It takes 30 minutes to watch an average vod of Orb and you see he pumps that stuff out like it's punctuation when he's losing. Am I seriously to swallow they had this guy in their employ for so long and they didn't know he does this? Of course they knew, but they didn't care, they only start to care once the community stars to email sponsors. It all started with a random picture on reddit, suddenly people were made aware Orb does this, I knew he did it for a long time, many people don't I guess, can't really blame them for that they don't know. In fact, I can't even blame them that much for getting angry about that he's a pathetic whiner. The guy came close to death threats to his opponent.
What I do blame people for is that they actually swallow that sanctimonious story Garfield came up with. That this kind of 'damage control' actually works, that people don't see right through it and say 'Yo Garfield, your story doesn't add up and it's clear you don't mean a word of it, so I'm even more angry and I'm going to mail the sponsors even more.', maybe if damage control didn't work as well as it did people would actually check out what their casters are up to before they hire them instead of relying on damage control to fix it when it turns out they have the most immature behaviour in existence on their stream.
However, this brings us all to the sensitivity towards 'language'. Let's consider the 'n-word' for a moment, supposedly it has been used to oppress and control people, are you kidding me? Sticks, guns and chains were used to oppress and control people and enslave them, not words. You can't use words to oppress and control people, you can only use them to insult people which isn't actual physical damage. That's why freedom of speech exists but there's no such thing as freedom to beat people up. Freedom of speech, I can insult people, most importantly, I can insult political leaders and criticize them. The right to say things that may be insulting about any fellow citizen is key for a democracy to function. As soon as a government can legislate social appropriateness rather than letting it evolve naturally by community consensus they gain the ability to oppress their people. This is exactly what is happening in many states like say Iran. You say something that insults God or any of his Prophets? Boom, to jail you go! Perfect tool for a government who claims they sit with the approval of God to oppress its people, after all, insulting the government is insulting Islaam indirectly.
It goes even further than nigger, anyone knows the word niggard? It's older than nigger and shares no etymological ancestry with it. It means someone who's afraid to spend money. Well, people got fired for using the word niggard(ly) completely correctly. Because it superficially looks similar to nigger? Are you kidding me? What's next? Can't say fog because it looks like fag? I'm sorry but it's just the nature of language that words which look similar but have no connexion to each other otherwise exist. Okay, say someone says 'niggardly' and you don't know what the word means and take offence but then the person calmly explains 'Oh no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, you see, niggard just means miser.', then that's fucking it. If you still take offence after that and don't say 'Oh, I'm sorry, I of course thought it meant something else.' then it's your own problem okay. That person didn't mean to offend you in any way, that person was not racist in any way. The reason you misunderstood it was your own ignorance of the English lexicon. You'd be thankful that person takes the time to calmly explain rather than call you a retard for getting angry about words you don't even know. And that's more or less what happened with a New York City staff member who got fired for calling the budget 'niggardly'. Come oooooon... how was this man in any way to blame? But hey, ultimately, decisions have to be made to soothe the angry masses, I don't blame New York City for that in the end, their hands are tied, I blame the angry mob who seriously demand that after an innocent misunderstanding like that.
How about 2GD's famous joke about Scarlett "The best of both worlds", Scarlett didn't like it, I can certainly get that. It's certainly not something she wants to be reminded of in a public setting. But this is not transphobia. 2GD jokes about everything and anything and off-colourly so. He called Alex Garfield a paedophile, he comments on iNcontroL's weight. This guy will poke fun at whatever can be poked fun at and yes, sometimes people get hurt. If you invite him over as a tournament organizer, what you get is on the tin. In personal space of course of Scarlett doesn't like it she doesn't have to hang out with him. She can ask him to stop, if he doesn't do it of course no one is going to ask her to still hang out with him. If he says 'Sorry, I didn't think you'd be so upset, I didn't mean to upset you, I just... you know... I sometimes forget the things I say can hurt people.' and she can live with that then more power to both of them. But in the end is it transphobia? Maybe if he singled transsexuals out but he doesn't.
And yeah, I mentioned that Scarlett is transsexual here. There are seemingly two big elephants in the room in this scene. A) The Elephant in the Room turned out to be vastly exaggerated. B) Scarlett is transsexual. Everyone knows it, everyone tries to find creative ways to not mention it. It is not transphobic to mention that someone is transsexual guys. Hell, it is transphobic to be so uncomfortable with the subject to not mention it. Scarlett is transsexual, saying that does not make her anything less of a human being, anything less of a woman. But this culture where everyone knows it but acts so awkward about it just creates the idea for transsexuals that they are less, that people think they are some freaks of nature or whatever. Talking about it like it is nothing special is what creates acceptance. Let's face it, transsexualism is not yet as accepted as homosexuality is. One day it will get there, sadly it isn't there yet. And back when homosexuality wasn't accepted, you kept it to yourself, people were afraid to mention it and talk about it. Because deep down inside they still viewed it as something unnatural and abnormal. Just talking about it like any other subject is what creates acceptance, awkwardly talking around it is what creates an impression that they are less of a person or unnatural.
And then we end up with Terry the Intern, poor, poor guy. Mentions someone was of a darker colour. I'm sorry, but what exactly? Mentioning someone's race touches upon our sensitivities? But hey, only if it's an ethnic minority, then it suddenly becomes 'sensitive'. We went from 'negro' to 'black' to 'African-American' to 'person of colour' (which is ridiculous, offensive and arguaby racist in itself because beige is a colour) just to find a continually less offensive term for it because it's seemingly offensive of itself to speak of the race of black people. Mean while the term 'white person' has endured. Because it's not a racial minority. Let's face it, in the end people feel awkward mentioning the race of black people because deep down inside, subconsciously, people perceive us as 'not normal', white is normal, all the other tones are variants in western society. I mean let's face it, if I describe someone like 'Yeah, he's a pretty handsome guy, good build, eloquent.', everyone thinks of a white dude in their mind, it's not even about the handsome, if I say 'he's such an awkward little nerd with buck teeth', again, everyone think so of a white guy. You have to add the word black somewhere in a description to make people think of a black guy. And that's how people describe people. If we talk about white people we never mention race, if we think about black people we do. Hell, wiki article about the Oracle from the Matrix:
"The Oracle appears as an African American woman in her late 60s. She frequently enjoys making cookies and likes the smell they make while they are cooking, she also has a penchant for candy."
Take a guess if the wiki ever mentions the race of white people. It doesn't. For some reason it's necessary to name the race of black people or Asian people but not white people. Which goes completely against the Wachowskis' vision of the matrix. The Matrix is one of the first films where people of all races exist who are just playing people, they aren't playing a specifically "black" or "asian role", they aren't that because the plot demands it, they just are because they are, for the same reason the white people are white. Because you have to have one race so why not roll a die? Did you know Will Smith was originally considered for Neo? That's right, the character of Neo is written irrespectively of his race. And Keanu Reeves ultimately symbolizes this because the man is clearly of multiracial ancestry.
The sensitivity towards all this language exists for one purpose, to compensate for the fact that we aren't capable of solving the actual racial injustices so we just focus on stupid irrelevant things we can "solve". Let's combat words rather than actions, my god. No one gives a damn about the fact that not a single black StarCraft progamer seems to exist, let's not focus our attention on that, no let's instead get angry because Terry mentioned the colour of someone's skin.
Well written. I agree but that is how things are. And it will be difficult, almost impossible to change the view of todays society to something where racial and sexual prejudice does not exist.
Anecdote i guess: rarely do i read the chat of streams when the number if people watching exceed 10k for i do not want to lose faith in humanity. Anyhow this is relevant because i saw random people calling scarlett a guy. Naturally being curiois i googled it and sure enough i found that in fact scarlett is a transgender. I dont really care about this fact but because of this i spent a good 30mins on wikipedia learning about the procedures and i found myself impressed by them. Quite impressove i must say what modern science can do. d^_^b
You don't understand what the "n word" means for African Americans. Their ancestors endured slavery, degradation, and immoral treatment. They continue to suffer from systematic and societal racism, prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry. Slavery does not exist as it once did in America, but its effects are clear and can be felt even today. Ever wonder why most African Americans are poor, often subjected to gang violence, disruptive family structures, and lack of opportunities? I won't attribute it all to slavery but surely the causal effect is there. Honestly there is no difference whether you say African American or Black, if they get offended by these words it's their problem. But saying the "n word" is completely different. There are loads of negative connotations attached to that word and it's a really sensitive topic to the African American community. You might wonder how come it's acceptable for black people to refer to each other using the "n word". I see it as a symbol of solidarity, much like "brother", when African Americans use it among themselves. But the word is strictly forbidden from being used by members outside their community and they have right to feel offended by this derogatory remark. Be careful what you say, your words have power and consequences
I'm confused on your worldview. You claim words are unimportant, but your writing espouses the necessity of them. Also, I believe you made broad generalizations in your assumptions concerning public ideals.
If we talk about white people we never mention race, if we think about black people we do.
Perhaps you don't, but does your view encompass all populations, or even most of them? Suppose I asked an Arab population to envision a "pretty handsome guy, good build, eloquent." Would they see a so-called white person? Probably not, because their culture and upbringing revolve around Arabs. If I asked an African population, would they see the Arab?
It's true in a blended society the ethnic majority will be seen more because, well, there's more of them. The more precise question would be "Are majorities statistically represented more in public viewpoint than demographically?" which would be a tricky question to ask because populations vary so greatly.
I'm also confused as to whether you want people to be identified specifically or to exist homogeneously. Should we call them "black progamers" or just "progamers?" For that matter, why do you consider the race of a progamer noteworthy? I've never seen an Indian progamer either, nor an Inuit progamer.
On December 27 2013 08:07 NeuroticPsychosis wrote: You don't understand what the "n word" means for African Americans. Their ancestors endured slavery, degradation, and immoral treatment. They continue to suffer from systematic and societal racism, prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry. Slavery does not exist as it once did in America, but its effects are clear and can be felt even today. Ever wonder why most African Americans are poor, often subjected to gang violence, disruptive family structures, and lack of opportunities? I won't attribute it all to slavery but surely the causal effect is there. Honestly there is no difference whether you say African American or Black, if they get offended by these words it's their problem. But saying the "n word" is completely different. There are loads of negative connotations attached to that word and it's a really sensitive topic to the African American community. You might wonder how come it's acceptable for black people to refer to each other using the "n word". I see it as a symbol of solidarity, much like "brother", when African Americans use it among themselves.
Again, context though. There's w hole different line between just mentioning the word and actually using it to insult people.
I'm afraid that if you can't make up context and perceive insult where none was intended then that's your own problem with context reading to work on.
American society is also as a whole paradoxally sensitive to words. I watched Star Trek Into Darkness a while back. Not a single time are words like 'fuck' uttered? Is that truly realistic language? You'd expect a cowboy like Kirk to utter it a couple of times when things go south, but hey, it offends the sensitivities of the American public. Instead, we get Khan crushing skulls, blowing up people, the Vengeance smashing into a city at the end killing hundreds of thousands of people, Pike murdered along with random people in the Starfleet staff.
Which is exactly what you often see in American films, people die left and right gratuitously. Man of Steel was particularly ridiculous, apparently the gratuitous descruction of half a city being leveled at the final battle between Zod and Kal-El does not offend the American public, in fact, the entire film seems to brush under the table that there are people located in all those buildings that blow up throughout the film (and at the end he kills him filled with grief to spare 3 people, he killed 50 000 i that battle alone, a skyscraper or 5 fell over, come on..).
But hey, no one in the entire film ever says 'Fuck', because language offends the American public, not gratuitous amounts of death, no, language.
Which as a European is always something that intrigues, perplexes, amuses and some-what offends me. Call it a prejudice, but in the end 99% of the time when people make a fuzz about language they're American. Europeans just don't seem to care that much about language. When Apollo is at MLG he never says 'fuck', he's told he can't say that. Not in America, at Dreamhack the word liberally gets out, Swedish people don't give a shit.
And that's the paradox, in the end the US so so extremely sensitive to 'racist language', but turns a blind eye to actual racism. Every news station will report if someone says 'nigger' no matter the context, but all the while the Supreme court rules that racial profiling is fine and doesn't violate the constitution. And everyone is is fine with that there. I've often been called 'racist' by Americans because of off colour humour. I'm a bit like 2GD, a bit too much maybe, I like to poke fun at things. One of my friends is Asian and I sarcastically always call her 'slit' and she calls me 'poohead', it's all in good fun of course, I wouldn't say that makes me 'racist'.
Hell, it isn't even about race, it's about language, the US is just so obsessed with speech control and language. The US often prides itself as a bastion of free speech but the amount of censorship that goes on in media in the US to enforce their own view of decency. That TV stations can actually be fined for what language they use in the US. Or that Comic Book Code thing that actually existed. Where I live, TV stations aren't regulated by the government. Some Christian party raised it about some low brow show and the response was basically 'Freedom of speech bro, the government does not control what private TV stations say and broadcast, if people are offended they will stop watching.', but the US is so obsessed with legislating decency in language. If you watch an American soap opera, people get angry all the time and never ever once utter the word 'fuck', the language just isn't realistic. Soaps here, if people get angry, they speak the way people actually speak in real life when they're angry, they swear. THis is a picture of a former leader of the biggest conservative party here:
No one here is going to organize an "angry mum" campaign because that guy had the word fuck on his shirt. People are like "hey, that's funny, the conservatives are starting to loosen up a bit!"
But the word is strictly forbidden from being used by members outside their community and they have right to feel offended by this derogatory remark. Be careful what you say, your words have power and consequences
One has to appreciate how close this comes to racism? That you get a carte blanche to use it based on the colour of your skin.
Rather, look at people's intentions, do they intend to insult you, do they actually have racist views? Then by all means, get angry.
I don't think one should be forced to hold back their words at all. 'Nigger' doesn't mean anything to me. It may mean something for other people, but that should never be a reason to not allow me, or anyone else, from saying it. People who say nigger, knowing it offends their audience, may be called dicks (which is a rather sexist name, if you catch my drift). Forcing someone to shut up (even for one word) seems to me a very uncivilised solution to the problem of people being dicks. Besides, if dicks want to offend someone, they will, with or without censorship. It's quite hypocritical, actually.
On racism, I agree with the blog, except on one point. First, i agree that the information that the oracle is an African-American woman shouldn't be mentioned. Not because of some moral judgement of that sentence, but because it's redundant, just like mentioning on George W. Bush's wiki that he has 2 arms is redundant. Similar to this line of thought, i disagree with the blog one the point that there are no black progamers. I don't care. Just like i don't care that there are no non-koreans at the absolute bw top, that obama isn't as white as bush and that I'm black. The point is, for racism to disappear, one shouldn't care. What people don't seem to realise is that these symbolic acts (like not saying nigger, not allowing black pete in the netherlands or w/e) won't change anything. It's like someone's lost their eye and you try to solve it by putting it back. I assure you, it won't help, how much you want it to.
@SiskosGoatee: Never knew Balkenende was politically active in albania too, lol..
Sorry to burst your bubble I am reading your typing and i can't stop myself from not replying without finishing the whole op (i'll finish right after this post) but i'm amazed at what you think (sorry, i feel what you type is what you think) I read context, mmmmm not everyone bothers with it or even understand it mmmm but ok I read garfield damage control, and although i sort of disagree i get what you mean and i'd even agree with the no stomaching an idiot like him and that he shouldnt ever get a free pass for his s hit .... But then i get to .. Words don't kill people bullets do (yeah im paraphrasing with a twist, agreed) and there i log in to post this response aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wtf aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa have you ever opened a book? What do you think about gandhi adolf h or lenny bruce sartre descartes freud openheimer cosby (sorry for the last two inserted for comedy relief in such a subject/assembly) Words have killed for milennias and will forever rule the world Guns ensue, but it all starts with stated uncontested opinions Lenny bruce said it best: the suppression of words is awefull, one should say nigger nigger nigger nigger till the word doesn't mean anything anymore so that a young black man couldnt be hurt by it But that means this word hurts demeans and ultimately kills in the first place Words are the most efficient smart bombs Putting a threshold to what is acceptable is not only our salvation, it is smart business sense (and yes i agree that is a f c ed up thing to realize, but true nontheless) I'm in your corner until i finish reading all of it, but you made me sad when i got that you are hurt and that you are wrong on this rationale you seem to think is sane, it is not Cya later when i'm done
People like to overreact to shit from people who are clearly not racist or people that don't care. Examples recently, The washington redskins name was debated and native americans didn't give a shit. Jimmy kimmel had that segment where the kid said 'kill the chinese people then' and jimmy said 'thats not very nice' and people went after him like crazy.
On December 27 2013 09:20 enord wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble I am reading your typing and i can't stop myself from not replying without finishing the whole op (i'll finish right after this post) but i'm amazed at what you think (sorry, i feel what you type is what you think) I read context, mmmmm not everyone bothers with it or even understand it mmmm but ok I read garfield damage control, and although i sort of disagree i get what you mean and i'd even agree with the no stomaching an idiot like hom shouldnt ever get a free pass for his s hit .... But then i get to .. Words don't kill people bullets do (yeah im paraphrasing with a twist, agreed) and there i log in to post this response aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wtf aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you ever opened a book What do you think about gandhi adolf h or lenny bruce sartre descartes freud openheimer cosby ( sorry for the last two inserted for comedy relief in such a subject/assembly) Words have killed for milennias and will forever rule the world Guns ensue, but it all starts with stated uncontested opinions Lenny bruce said it best: the suppressio of words is awefull, one should say nigger igger nigger igger till the word doesn't mean anything anymore so that a youg black man couldnt e hurt by it But that means this word hurts demeans and ultimately kills Words are the most efficient smart bombs Putting a threshold to what is acceptable is not only our salvation it is smart business sense (and yes i agree that is a f c ed up thing to realize, but true nontheless) I'm in your corner until i finish reading all of it, but you made me sad when i got that you are hurt and that you are wrong on this rationale you seem to think is sane, it is not Cya later when i'm done
i just 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wtf aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa'd' at your post.
On December 27 2013 09:20 enord wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble I am reading your typing and i can't stop myself from not replying without finishing the whole op (i'll finish right after this post) but i'm amazed at what you think (sorry, i feel what you type is what you think) I read context, mmmmm not everyone bothers with it or even understand it mmmm but ok I read garfield damage control, and although i sort of disagree i get what you mean and i'd even agree with the no stomaching an idiot like hom shouldnt ever get a free pass for his s hit .... But then i get to .. Words don't kill people bullets do (yeah im paraphrasing with a twist, agreed) and there i log in to post this response aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wtf aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you ever opened a book What do you think about gandhi adolf h or lenny bruce sartre descartes freud openheimer cosby ( sorry for the last two inserted for comedy relief in such a subject/assembly) Words have killed for milennias and will forever rule the world Guns ensue, but it all starts with stated uncontested opinions Lenny bruce said it best: the suppressio of words is awefull, one should say nigger igger nigger igger till the word doesn't mean anything anymore so that a youg black man couldnt e hurt by it But that means this word hurts demeans and ultimately kills Words are the most efficient smart bombs Putting a threshold to what is acceptable is not only our salvation it is smart business sense (and yes i agree that is a f c ed up thing to realize, but true nontheless) I'm in your corner until i finish reading all of it, but you made me sad when i got that you are hurt and that you are wrong on this rationale you seem to think is sane, it is not Cya later when i'm done
Hmm, I respect your opinion but I disagree because aaa wtf aaaaaaaaaaaa ehh, hom shouldnt ever get a free pass his s hit putting a threshold to what is acceptable it is smart business but Lenny Bruce said it best the suppressio of words is awefull. aaaaaaaaaaaa wtf aaaaaaaaa.
But that that doesnt mean that i have to give up on you, even means that i have to try twice as hard
You see, if you reread what you carpeted bombed as facts.. These are only angry kids assumptions
You repeat again and again that if you dont see a problem with something, then it is fair game
You are in for a sore awakening and i would like you to avoid that
The world is full of people, and yes some are not cultured as you seem to see fit, some are not tolerant to your intolerance of their intolerance I could somewhat relate with you there , even though you dismiss everyone else
However, and listen carefully (just an advice), you join their ranks when you start declaring that you are right and since they are wrong then f ck their every waking minute
How is the fact that they are wrong on something (whoever doing whatever you feel inadequate, you pick, no i'll pick for you) allowing you to demean their plight? You lash out at northern american, why not them then They commited genocide, slavery and economical enslavement, so you bet that they are a good target Their movies are ridiculous and their politics are a sin at every turn Ok, we on the same page? So that gives you the power to ostracise scarlet by making her story something banal and fun worthy? That allows you to demean all women everywhere trying to get a fair shake while they still dont? That allows you to force black people (who want to reclaim their stance honoroubly by destroying the power that the word nigger once and still has over their community) to accept your own view of things? That allows you to disregard any other view than yours?
You talk about context and knowledge at every turn and forget to think of your own
You are the words you use, try to think of that while you comment on other people's mean and superior out of place demeanor, that you are doing exactly the same thing on these posts
A girl pissed you off and you went posting that you were angry That is all you accomplished, and more ...
You do get a prize for adding that using some words is your right and that people should see what you mean (that you mean no harm for instance) ... But you fail completely to showcase how it is a right or how these people should be informed of your intentions
Choice of words is intention, to everyone
Someone prefacing his post with "im not ....phobic, but ..." what does that sound to you? Someone honestly trying to not be hurtfull? Then you are admiting that said poster is going to hurt someone, even though his post warrants it! Because a higher motive is out there forcing the issue?
Not to mention it but, do you realize that this is a word world you are typing in? Posts are interpreted, words are always overflowing with meaning you can never control
Case in point: you You were hurt, and you need to lash out : nothing out of the ordinary, we all carry emotional weights till we die So you don't realize that that is the case? Should we care?
You feel the world is not perfect and want to type about it: we on the same wavelengh
You attack, wow, that is going to accomplish what?
Excluding people from conversations excludes them from life ? Yes you are right, how does that get you to "f ck em we will single them out and treat them as badly as we can" ..so they feel as bad as you do, so they feel part of the group?
My only answer would have to be, if you need to chop off the head to cure the rest of the body, it ain't worth it Being outraged at hypocrisy does not equate to being a douche, to being demeaning to people you presumably know nothing about Words are not yours, they are ours, freedom of speech is not freedom to do whatever dumb s hit you feel like doing I wont go on, i'll just leave you on my fervent hope that some of it sinks in
The world is bigger and badder every day and using known slurs thoughtlessly or worse advocating that since some people are hypocrites you can be worse than they are, this will only comfort you in your sad secluded view of the world
Words kill people every day, being ignorant of it is no excuse
Just for the lols, and i'm sorry for the cheap shot But my pasionate quick ill spelling on a phone with no screen will get fixed in a minute or two How much time will it take you to be cured of your chip on your shoulder?
"Whining about being offended is like asking that other people deal with your emotions because you can't do it yourself".
If you condition yourself to react poorly to words that people can say with their mouths and this is what you choose to fight against rather than real discrimination, then perhaps you're a bit of a moron. And in my everyday life, I make sure to be "politically correct" and I censor myself and I don't use the particularly sensitive stereotypes that people have decided they don't like because they could rub some people the wrong way.
Funny enough, some of the people who are the most anal about these things, the people who jump on their high horse at the slightest hint of a "black guy" joke, they don't give a fuck when people crack jokes about drunk american natives.
So this whole debate is between the people who can tell that these social norms are bullshit and the hypocrites who go with the flow and agree with society about which groups of people are worthy of respects and which ones (the natives, the Roma people) haven't lobbied hard enough for the white man to take its plea seriously. I can say I got gypped and nobody raises an eyebrow but all those soccer moms would go apeshit if I said I got jewed. That ain't okay Carl. The Gypsies are fair game until they get their own Hitler though, go to fucking town.
Edit: The point that you should read between the lines is that even though I sometimes make jokes between friends that may sound racist, I'd argue that the white knights are the actual racists and they don't even know it. They operate according to this informal hierarchy of the classifications of people who need to be protected.
Explanation from an American comedian. This country has committed a lot of atrocities in its short history. It's deeply ingrained in our culture to sweep things under the rug with euphemism. Words like nigger are irreconcilable with this process. I'm reading a book right now about Japanese Americans, and it talks about how they were thrown in concentration camps during WW2. So while we're always reminded to never forget about how we defeated the ultimate evil that was Hitler, we're simultaneously not to acknowledge those internment camps, nor the horrors we inflicted on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I would say overall, we're encouraged not to think period, being endlessly bombarded from birth with advertisement, shallow entertainment, and propaganda. Excessive political correctness in place of genuine respect for others is yet another tool to keep us obedient and in line.
On December 27 2013 12:51 Djzapz wrote: "Whining about being offended is like asking that other people deal with your emotions because you can't do it yourself".
If you condition yourself to react poorly to words that people can say with their mouths and this is what you choose to fight against rather than real discrimination, then perhaps you're a bit of a moron. And in my everyday life, I make sure to be "politically correct" and I censor myself and I don't use the particularly sensitive stereotypes that people have decided they don't like because they could rub some people the wrong way.
Funny enough, some of the people who are the most anal about these things, the people who jump on their high horse at the slightest hint of a "black guy" joke, they don't give a fuck when people crack jokes about drunk american natives.
So this whole debate is between the people who can tell that these social norms are bullshit and the hypocrites who go with the flow and agree with society about which groups of people are worthy of respects and which ones (the natives, the Roma people) haven't lobbied hard enough for the white man to take its plea seriously. I can say I got gypped and nobody raises an eyebrow but all those soccer moms would go apeshit if I said I got jewed. That ain't okay Carl. The Gypsies are fair game until they get their own Hitler though, go to fucking town.
Edit: The point that you should read between the lines is that even though I sometimes make jokes between friends that may sound racist, I'd argue that the white knights are the actual racists and they don't even know it. They operate according to this informal hierarchy of the classifications of people who need to be protected.
So you are saying that minorities can protect themselves when you make racist jokes to your friends. Ah ok.
On December 27 2013 09:21 MarlieChurphy wrote: People like to overreact to shit from people who are clearly not racist or people that don't care. Examples recently, The washington redskins name was debated and native americans didn't give a shit. Jimmy kimmel had that segment where the kid said 'kill the chinese people then' and jimmy said 'thats not very nice' and people went after him like crazy.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people are in favor of changing the name Redskins. Beyond being racist, it should be changed because it's an idiotic name.
On December 27 2013 12:51 Djzapz wrote: "Whining about being offended is like asking that other people deal with your emotions because you can't do it yourself".
If you condition yourself to react poorly to words that people can say with their mouths and this is what you choose to fight against rather than real discrimination, then perhaps you're a bit of a moron. And in my everyday life, I make sure to be "politically correct" and I censor myself and I don't use the particularly sensitive stereotypes that people have decided they don't like because they could rub some people the wrong way.
Funny enough, some of the people who are the most anal about these things, the people who jump on their high horse at the slightest hint of a "black guy" joke, they don't give a fuck when people crack jokes about drunk american natives.
So this whole debate is between the people who can tell that these social norms are bullshit and the hypocrites who go with the flow and agree with society about which groups of people are worthy of respects and which ones (the natives, the Roma people) haven't lobbied hard enough for the white man to take its plea seriously. I can say I got gypped and nobody raises an eyebrow but all those soccer moms would go apeshit if I said I got jewed. That ain't okay Carl. The Gypsies are fair game until they get their own Hitler though, go to fucking town.
Edit: The point that you should read between the lines is that even though I sometimes make jokes between friends that may sound racist, I'd argue that the white knights are the actual racists and they don't even know it. They operate according to this informal hierarchy of the classifications of people who need to be protected.
So you are saying that minorities can protect themselves when you make racist jokes to your friends. Ah ok.
No I'm saying it's harmless when I make jokes that pertain to people's skin color or religion with my friends. Those jokes are not racist because I don't believe any race of people is inferior or whatever. Minorities don't need to protect themselves from what happens on the 7th moon of Saturn and they don't need to protect themselves from my drunken banter. People make jokes.
Meanwhile some white folks spend time condemning the use of words like "nigger" while not giving the slightest amount of fuck about the despicable life conditions that exist in ghettos. Furthermore, they ignore some of the slang for other minorities, as well as the despicable life conditions of said minorities. Those are apparently not problems worth looking into because lazy mofos like to take the moral high ground with little effort.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people are in favor of changing the name Redskins. Beyond being racist, it should be changed because it's an idiotic name.
Yeah and I'm the Queen of England. Even if it were true, the point is people give a particular amount of fuck about the plea of certain groups of people.
The fact that you're seemingly unaware of this is part of the problem. You think you treat all people equally? Good on you. Look how natives are treated in your country, though. Look at those second class citizens. We have them too, in Canada. Many if not most of them are stuck with terrible living conditions and no way out of their "reserves" that we've given them out of the goodness of our hearts (lol). And yet tomahawk jokes will fly in a party while a mention of the word nigger will stop a party in its track.
And I don't care that you feel like somehow all people are given the same amount of respect from you. We're not talking about you and your little contest of who's more down with the minorities. I'm talking about reality. It's true that some of the people who go apeshit when they hear the word "nigger" are also the people who don't care about the other minorities because those haven't managed to institutionalize themselves to get our sympathy.
People don't know nor care about what we did to our natives. People don't know nor care who are the Roma people. We can shit on those folks and we do, while certain other groups of people have immunity
That said, congratulations about your denunciation of the word Redskins, I'm sure they'll live much better lives when we pick different words to call them instead of actually doing anything.
So people have no intention of solving anything. They'll scold people who use bad words but they're not going to pay taxes or discuss things that could improve equality in real life. All they want is the sympathetic and nice discourse.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people are in favor of changing the name Redskins. Beyond being racist, it should be changed because it's an idiotic name.
No I'm saying it's harmless when I make jokes that pertain to people's skin color or religion with my friends. Those jokes are not racist because I don't believe any race of people is inferior or whatever. Minorities don't need to protect themselves from what happens on the 7th moon of Saturn and they don't need to protect themselves from my drunken banter. People make jokes.
Meanwhile some white folks spend time condemning the use of words like "nigger" while not giving the slightest amount of fuck about the despicable life conditions that exist in ghettos. Furthermore, they ignore certain of the slang for other minorities, as well as the despicable life conditions of said minorities. Those are apparently not problems worth looking because lazy mofos like to take the moral high ground with little effort.
Your jokes influence yours and your friends subconscious perceptions of other people's race. Telling yourself, "I'm not a racist" does not make your jokes not racist. People make racist jokes.
Who said those aren't problems? Who are you talking to?
Yeah and I'm the Queen of England. Even if it were true, the point is people give a particular amount of fuck about the plea of certain groups of people.
The fact that you're seemingly unaware of this is part of the problem. You think you treat all people equally? Good on you. Look how natives are treated in your country, though. Look at those second class citizens. We have them too, in Canada. Many if not most of them are stuck with terrible living conditions and no way out of their "reserves" that we've given them out of the goodness of our hearts (lol). And yet tomahawk jokes will fly in a party while a mention of the word nigger will stop a party in its track.
And I don't care that you feel like somehow all people are given the same amount of respect from you. We're not talking about you and your little contest of who's more down with the minorities. I'm talking about reality. It's true that some of the people who go apeshit when they hear the word "nigger" are also the people who don't care about the other minorities because those haven't managed to institutionalize themselves to get our sympathy.
People don't know nor care about what we did to our natives. People don't know nor care who are the Roma people. We can shit on those folks and we do, while certain other groups of people have immunity
That said, congratulations about your denunciation of the word Redskins, I'm sure they'll live much better lives when we pick different words to call them instead of actually doing anything.
So people have no intention of solving anything. They'll scold people who use bad words but they're not going to pay taxes or discuss things that could improve equality in real life. All they want is the sympathetic and nice discourse.
I don't know what you are talking about? Are you making the argument that because some people are hypocrites that makes it ok for you to make racist jokes? Because maybe you really care about "equality in life" and are "actually doing" something?
I don't know people who make tomahawk jokes. What are you trying to accomplish by arguing that some people are quick to condemn use of one racial epithet while making jokes about another race? Those people are making racist jokes as well. Do you commonly make non-sequitur arguments and expect to be taken seriously? Redskins is a fine name because I, personally, am not out crusading for native american something? You sound like you are drunk.
EPT
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