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On December 28 2013 06:09 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 05:54 omnic wrote:On December 28 2013 05:29 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 05:12 omnic wrote:
Reading this thread reminds me of the Harry Potter series and how everybody is paranoid of saying Voldemort and how everybody tries to convince Harry Potter that you shouldn't use the name ever. It's treated with the same type of care that a racial slur is and everybody is so caught up on trying to control what people say that Voldemort basically takes over the wizard world. Meanwhile the only people that actually end up doing anything in the series are the ones that don't shit themselves every time somebody says something uncomfortable.
Maybe instead of trying to pretend racism doesn't exist by censoring the words we should put more of a focus on how to deal with the actual problem. I mean you don't eradicate racism in that way. It's treating a symptom not the illness. Yes because n***** is just like the word Voldemort. I'm about to say something that I know to you is going to seem very very silly because you're completely missing the point. In the wizard world Voldemort is worse than the word nigger. Well, truth be told, Voldemort is not an insult in the Wizzard world, it's more like people are afraid to say 'mudblood' even in a non insulting context which is I suppose their form a racial slur. Not saying Voldemort is like people being afraid to name Hitler by name or something which is also silly.
The point I was making had more to do with the fact that trying to silence a specific word because you don't want to admit that what the word symbolizes is something that is still out there doesn't do anything to actually stop it.
Silencing the word nigger won't do anything to stop racism all it'll do is better mask racism which shouldn't be your end goal. That's the connection I was making and anyways mud blood isn't nearly as powerful as the word voldemort in the series. People are paralyzed in fear when somebody says Voldemort in any context in the series. Mud blood doesn't come anywhere near that.
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Very good read OP, I pretty much agree with everything you said.
I grew up in a pretty sheltered family, and didn't realize that racism is still a big deal in the world until I was older. Therefor I would make innocent race jokes all the time and I wouldn't get offended at all when people made asian jokes directed at me because, discriminating people for the color of their skin is such a stupid thing to do that I though "who would be stupid enough to actually mean that ?".
Growing up I realized that real racists exist and sadly there are much more of them than I thought... Therefor people who don't know you are likely to assume that you are racist when you make race jokes.
In public, it's just a matter of politeness not to say n**** or other racial terms because it might offend someone. It's really not our call to judge whether or not they are justified in being offended. I personally think it's not a very rational thing to do, but if people are offended, then just don't say the word.
In private, when you're with friends/family I can say whatever I want.
On December 27 2013 15:30 Djzapz wrote:
Meanwhile some white folks spend time condemning the use of words like "nigger" while not giving the slightest amount of fuck about the despicable life conditions that exist in ghettos. Furthermore, they ignore certain of the slang for other minorities, as well as the despicable life conditions of said minorities. Those are apparently not problems worth looking because lazy mofos like to take the moral high ground with little effort.
You had me laughing at "lazy mofos like to take the moral high ground with little effort" because that's exactly what it is. Many people, IRL and in this thread, seem like they're getting offended because it's the easy thing to. Taking the moral high ground, looking down at people and answering with quotes instead of reasoning is so much easier...
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On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Show nested quote +Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. Show nested quote +You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Show nested quote +Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. Show nested quote +For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed Show nested quote +You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself.
You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child.
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On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child. If you think racist jokes constitute 'violence', you need a dictionary.
Violence per definition is physical and if you don't get that you need to learn better English.
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On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child.
It's not because I don't want to try to understand it. It's a gross usage of the word "violence" for one, and calling it an institution is loosely okay, but not very convincing. Calling jokes between friends "institutional and cultural violence", IgnE, is an attempt to manipulate people's emotions and to demonize something in order to make it easier to argue against.
I'm done IgnE. I think it's really sad though, your heart is in the right place but you don't know how the world works, you don't know how to tackle problems like this one. And in your defense, the problems of racism, discrimination and intolerance are complex ones. This explains why people like yourself, instead of thinking and reading, prefer to flail your little arms around, attacking every part of racism, symbols, and roots alike, with no understanding of what's going on. That's like how my grandma used to panic every time she saw an ad for an antivirus on her computer. The word virus scared her and she thought it was better to close every browser page which displayed the word "virus". It's not a very effective way to combat viruses, IgnE, as I'm sure you'll understand.
In life, you don't deal with problems by flailing your arms, though. And I don't have solutions either, nor is there an easy way to deal with the problem of racism. But I'm keeping calm, because if I started flailing my arms around, people would stop thinking about racism and they'd start wondering what the fuck this crazy guy is doing slapping everybody in the face.
So you say I'm acting like a child. You think like one.
+ Show Spoiler +What I'm saying here is that by attacking the wrong "parts" of racism, you're muddying the water and you're reducing racism to its words and symbols. This is not only useless functionally, it's counter productive because it detracts from the real problem and the actual people who are guilty of being racist.
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On December 28 2013 09:35 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child. It's not because I don't want to try to understand it. It's a gross usage of the word "violence" for one, and calling it an institution is loosely okay, but not very convincing. Calling jokes between friends "institutional and cultural violence", IgnE, is an attempt to manipulate people's emotions and to demonize something in order to make it easier to argue against. I'm done IgnE. I think it's really sad though, your heart is in the right place but you don't know how the world works, you don't know how to tackle problems like this one. And in your defense, the problems of racism, discrimination and intolerance are complex ones. This explains why people like yourself, instead of thinking and reading, prefer to flail your little arms around, attacking every part of racism, symbols, and roots alike, with no understanding of what's going on. That's like how my grandma used to panic every time she saw an ad for an antivirus on her computer. The word virus scared her and she thought it was better to close every browser page which displayed the word "virus". It's not a very effective way to combat viruses, IgnE, as I'm sure you'll understand. In life, you don't deal with problems by flailing your arms, though. And I don't have solutions either, nor is there an easy way to deal with the problem of racism. But I'm keeping calm, because if I started flailing my arms around, people would stop thinking about racism and they'd start wondering what the fuck this crazy guy is doing slapping everybody in the face. So you say I'm acting like a child. You think like one. + Show Spoiler +What I'm saying here is that by attacking the wrong "parts" of racism, you're muddying the water and you're reducing racism to its words and symbols. This is not only useless functionally, it's counter productive because it detracts from the real problem and the actual people who are guilty of being racist.
It's interesting to be told about the "real" world of racism from a guy whose guilty pleasure is telling his white privileged friends racist jokes in private. Why don't you come into the inner cities of the American eastern seaboard and talk to some black folks about how you think n***** is just a word that you use sometimes but you aren't racist because you only use it in private company?
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On December 28 2013 11:08 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 09:35 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child. It's not because I don't want to try to understand it. It's a gross usage of the word "violence" for one, and calling it an institution is loosely okay, but not very convincing. Calling jokes between friends "institutional and cultural violence", IgnE, is an attempt to manipulate people's emotions and to demonize something in order to make it easier to argue against. I'm done IgnE. I think it's really sad though, your heart is in the right place but you don't know how the world works, you don't know how to tackle problems like this one. And in your defense, the problems of racism, discrimination and intolerance are complex ones. This explains why people like yourself, instead of thinking and reading, prefer to flail your little arms around, attacking every part of racism, symbols, and roots alike, with no understanding of what's going on. That's like how my grandma used to panic every time she saw an ad for an antivirus on her computer. The word virus scared her and she thought it was better to close every browser page which displayed the word "virus". It's not a very effective way to combat viruses, IgnE, as I'm sure you'll understand. In life, you don't deal with problems by flailing your arms, though. And I don't have solutions either, nor is there an easy way to deal with the problem of racism. But I'm keeping calm, because if I started flailing my arms around, people would stop thinking about racism and they'd start wondering what the fuck this crazy guy is doing slapping everybody in the face. So you say I'm acting like a child. You think like one. + Show Spoiler +What I'm saying here is that by attacking the wrong "parts" of racism, you're muddying the water and you're reducing racism to its words and symbols. This is not only useless functionally, it's counter productive because it detracts from the real problem and the actual people who are guilty of being racist. It's interesting to be told about the "real" world of racism from a guy whose guilty pleasure is telling his white privileged friends racist jokes in private. Why don't you come into the inner cities of the American eastern seaboard and talk to some black folks about how you think n***** is just a word that you use sometimes but you aren't racist because you only use it in private company?
You're hopeless, truly hopeless.
And about the part in bold, I've explained MULTIPLE TIMES that it has nothing to with that. Your refusal to understand what racism really is, that's the root of our disagreement. You misunderstand the word at the very core of this discussion. We've been unable to have a good discussion because of this. And despite my many explanations, you continue to distort my position. You censor the word "nigger" in your own posts as if the words used for the purpose of conversation was an offense. And that's a testament to your incompetence in this rational conversation. Your arguments are irrational and continuously appeal to emotion. So again, you think like a child.
Like I said, I believe that you have a good heart, can't fault you there. But you don't know what you're doing when you accuse me of racism, when every fiber of my being is disgusted by racism. I actively discourage and fight it. I'm absolutely disgusted by my brother's actual racist jokes because I know he means to degrade those people.
My making light of social issues through humor, may the issues be about racism, social inequalities, poverty, the environment, etc... It has no negative intentions. Satire and jokes and using humor to talk about real problems is not racism, even if it doesn't always come in the form of discourse that you're used to. And as a results of some of those jokes I made, my friend and I have struck a few actual lengthy conversations about racism. In fact, my gaming buddy and I oftentimes end up talking about these things very seriously even though those conversations oftentimes start off as very inappropriate (by some standards).
So I suggest that you broaden your horizons. I think that's what you need.
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Dude, I totally agree with everything you've said here (and have wrote about it), and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
On December 27 2013 15:47 IgnE wrote:
I don't know what you are talking about? Are you making the argument that because some people are hypocrites that makes it ok for you to make racist jokes? Because maybe you really care about "equality in life" and are "actually doing" something?
It's not okay to make racist jokes, which is why they are extra-funny.
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On December 28 2013 11:20 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 11:08 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 09:35 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child. It's not because I don't want to try to understand it. It's a gross usage of the word "violence" for one, and calling it an institution is loosely okay, but not very convincing. Calling jokes between friends "institutional and cultural violence", IgnE, is an attempt to manipulate people's emotions and to demonize something in order to make it easier to argue against. I'm done IgnE. I think it's really sad though, your heart is in the right place but you don't know how the world works, you don't know how to tackle problems like this one. And in your defense, the problems of racism, discrimination and intolerance are complex ones. This explains why people like yourself, instead of thinking and reading, prefer to flail your little arms around, attacking every part of racism, symbols, and roots alike, with no understanding of what's going on. That's like how my grandma used to panic every time she saw an ad for an antivirus on her computer. The word virus scared her and she thought it was better to close every browser page which displayed the word "virus". It's not a very effective way to combat viruses, IgnE, as I'm sure you'll understand. In life, you don't deal with problems by flailing your arms, though. And I don't have solutions either, nor is there an easy way to deal with the problem of racism. But I'm keeping calm, because if I started flailing my arms around, people would stop thinking about racism and they'd start wondering what the fuck this crazy guy is doing slapping everybody in the face. So you say I'm acting like a child. You think like one. + Show Spoiler +What I'm saying here is that by attacking the wrong "parts" of racism, you're muddying the water and you're reducing racism to its words and symbols. This is not only useless functionally, it's counter productive because it detracts from the real problem and the actual people who are guilty of being racist. It's interesting to be told about the "real" world of racism from a guy whose guilty pleasure is telling his white privileged friends racist jokes in private. Why don't you come into the inner cities of the American eastern seaboard and talk to some black folks about how you think n***** is just a word that you use sometimes but you aren't racist because you only use it in private company? You're hopeless, truly hopeless. And about the part in bold, I've explained MULTIPLE TIMES that it has nothing to with that. Your refusal to understand what racism really is, that's the root of our disagreement. You misunderstand the word at the very core of this discussion. We've been unable to have a good discussion because of this. And despite my many explanations, you continue to distort my position. You censor the word "nigger" in your own posts as if the words used for the purpose of conversation was an offense. And that's a testament to your incompetence in this rational conversation. Your arguments are irrational and continuously appeal to emotion. So again, you think like a child. Like I said, I believe that you have a good heart, can't fault you there. But you don't know what you're doing when you accuse me of racism, when every fiber of my being is disgusted by racism. I actively discourage and fight it. I'm absolutely disgusted by my brother's actual racist jokes because I know he means to degrade those people. My making light of social issues through humor, may the issues be about racism, social inequalities, poverty, the environment, etc... It has no negative intentions. Satire and jokes and using humor to talk about real problems is not racism, even if it doesn't always come in the form of discourse that you're used to. And as a results of some of those jokes I made, my friend and I have struck a few actual lengthy conversations about racism. In fact, my gaming buddy and I oftentimes end up talking about these things very seriously even though those conversations oftentimes start off as very inappropriate (by some standards). So I suggest that you broaden your horizons. I think that's what you need.
You say the fact that your jokes are private doesn't matter and yet you keep them private. There's a reason that even amongst comics you don't see pink people using the word n*****. You're a grown up boy who doesn't think words have power, but you wouldn't use the word in public and you wouldn't admit to a brown person you just met that you've used the word in private amongst your friends. You suggest I broaden my horizons but you are the one who needs to ask some brown people how they feel about the use of the term, even behind closed doors.
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ignE, you should let him wollow in his ownn vomit, he likes it
he is a hypocrite racist that uses the cover of discussing suppression of words to spew his filth
continuously acting all self righttious and indignant whilst he knowingly perpetuates what he denounces
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On December 28 2013 11:08 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2013 09:35 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 09:24 IgnE wrote:On December 28 2013 05:47 Djzapz wrote:On December 28 2013 05:27 IgnE wrote:
You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Nope. Jokes in private can't possibly be "violence" because they're jokes and they're in private. It don't even really know how to respond to that without outright insulting your intelligence frankly. It's like I'm reading a self-help book of some description and it tells you erroneous definitions of violence. Moral violence! You can hurt others with your thoughts or some shit. I know I'm twisting what you're saying but it's such an irrelevant and nonoperational string of words, I can't possibly make sense of it. And here's the thing: nor can you. Nobody can defend that bullshit. Uncivilized boors can do whatever they want behind closed doors and are entitled to free speech in public. A racist joke is not absolved of its immoral patina simply because it's conducted in private. If you want to argue that the context of the joke is important, even central, to it's meaning and moral heftiness, I wouldn't argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. If you want to talk about context, you brought up private jokes in a thread about the use of the word n*****. If you are using that word in private jokes with your friends, you are overwhelmingly likely an uncivilized racist boor. I use racial slurs in private with my friends. I call my gay friend a faggot. Yet I don't think lowly of people of other races or sexual orientations, and much to the contrary, I defend them when they're attacked by actual intolerant and racist people. So when you try to fiddle with semantics to try to make me out to be a racist person because of my usage of words, you're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit. And yes sometimes with my friends I lack class. That makes me a classless guy sometimes, but not a bigot, nor a racist. You would never use that word around a black person you didn't personally know No, and I also don't talk about how fucking terrible white people are in front of people who don't want to hear it. I change my language depending on what I know people can hear. Do you seriously think that things done in private are not racist by virtue of the fact that they are done only amongst friends? That there are no Others around to hear your racism and be offended? That's not the point, but I'm not surprised that you wouldn't understand. You're incredibly shallow. Things are racist, or they aren't. To believe that people of other races are inferior in some way, that's what racism is. I say the word "nigger" here, and I can say the word "faggot". This last sentence is not racist or homophobic because those words are not inherently bad - they're bad in a context of intolerance. The fact that I jokingly call my gay friend a faggot (because he expressively told me it's ok and he calls me all kinds of shit himself) is not homophobic. My jokes are not racist because they're not meant to be hurtful, and furthermore they don't hurt anybody. I don't condone actual "racist jokes" that incite hatred or anything of the sort. I don't condone jokes made among racist fuckers who try to get a rise out of lowering others. There are three reasons why I specifically mention that those jokes are made in private: 1- People like yourself exist. You don't understand the world and you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. + Show Spoiler +A local comedian "offended" a bunch of people when he made a bit about cripples. They left the theater all pissed off and told the media about how offended they were. The comedian was making jokes which prefaced a bit about his crippled brother, and the foundation he made in his honor. 2- I'm worried that actual racists might hear me. This is in line with what you've been saying. I choose my friends carefully - and they're good people like myself. 3- Sensitive jokes like that can sound bad if you don't hear the whole thing. For as much as you pride yourself on your "rationalism" and use of reason it's strange that you think your arguments are sound here. You've finally admitted in this post that you think making racist jokes in private is ok, because it "just is," but you still rail on with your ridiculous line of logic about how your boorish and racist behavior is justified by the existence of other hypocrites. If you want to think your behavior is fine because it "just is" then so be it. But don't pretend all this other bullshit you've been talking about makes any sense. I think it's funny. Those two parts in bold show that you haven't listened. The "ridiculous line of logic" doesn't exist. I say that jokes about race are inherently okay, not that they're justified by the fact that worse things exist. Jokes about race, as opposed to racist jokes, can be social commentary. Jokes about race can also be tasteless, like dead baby jokes - but none of these necessarily incite hatred of those people, or the belief that they're inferior. I think that this entire little debate between us is rendered useless by the fact that you foolishly refuse to see the difference between racism and "jokes which pertain to race". So I want to reiterate that you're a shallow individual and you're wasting everybody's time with your silly and ineffective way of combating racism by attacking people like myself who make use of certain words in a completely innocent and harmless way. Fuck, I'm more disgusted and reactive than the average person when I see actual racism. By a fair margin too. My brother and I have been drifting apart because of his intolerance which I find completely despicable. I also want to say that this following line is the stupidest thing I've heard in months and you should be ashamed You talk about institutional violence against the Roma and fail to realize that "jokes in private" can constitute institutional/cultural violence in themselves. Absolute garbo catchphrase. Get ahold of yourself. You can't make sense of racist jokes as institutional and cultural violence because you don't want to try and understand. It is easier for you to sit there and say "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." You are acting like a child. It's not because I don't want to try to understand it. It's a gross usage of the word "violence" for one, and calling it an institution is loosely okay, but not very convincing. Calling jokes between friends "institutional and cultural violence", IgnE, is an attempt to manipulate people's emotions and to demonize something in order to make it easier to argue against. I'm done IgnE. I think it's really sad though, your heart is in the right place but you don't know how the world works, you don't know how to tackle problems like this one. And in your defense, the problems of racism, discrimination and intolerance are complex ones. This explains why people like yourself, instead of thinking and reading, prefer to flail your little arms around, attacking every part of racism, symbols, and roots alike, with no understanding of what's going on. That's like how my grandma used to panic every time she saw an ad for an antivirus on her computer. The word virus scared her and she thought it was better to close every browser page which displayed the word "virus". It's not a very effective way to combat viruses, IgnE, as I'm sure you'll understand. In life, you don't deal with problems by flailing your arms, though. And I don't have solutions either, nor is there an easy way to deal with the problem of racism. But I'm keeping calm, because if I started flailing my arms around, people would stop thinking about racism and they'd start wondering what the fuck this crazy guy is doing slapping everybody in the face. So you say I'm acting like a child. You think like one. + Show Spoiler +What I'm saying here is that by attacking the wrong "parts" of racism, you're muddying the water and you're reducing racism to its words and symbols. This is not only useless functionally, it's counter productive because it detracts from the real problem and the actual people who are guilty of being racist. It's interesting to be told about the "real" world of racism from a guy whose guilty pleasure is telling his white privileged friends racist jokes in private. Why don't you come into the inner cities of the American eastern seaboard and talk to some black folks about how you think n***** is just a word that you use sometimes but you aren't racist because you only use it in private company? Racism means one of two things:
1. The belief that certain races are inhaerently better than other races or deserve more rights than other races.
2. The practice of making a distinction based on race
Joking about race, joking about anything, does not mean the former belief, or the latter action. Spelling the word nigger out in full most certainly does not mean any of both and if you think it does you're intellectually challenged.
Apart from that, saying the word does not mean violence, in fact, saying 'I'm going to stab all niggers in the face' does not mean violence, actually stabbing people constitutes violence. Even calling for genocide does not constitute violence, actually committing genocide does however. No matter what you say or call for, it can't constitute violence until you actually do something, and if you don't understand that your English is broken. Violence means the destruction or damaging of physical objects via the means of applying physical and pressure to them.
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racism is carried out by thoughts put into words, it has been for centuries .. your deny it equates to less than nothing
violence is carried out with words much more often than with acts
if you actually cared about someone else than yourself, which you pretend by acting all self righteous in all your posts, you would realize that ...
you were mocked by racists, got HURT by the VIOLENT POWER of those words, which made you do it to someone else in response .. you hurt other people that will in turn hurt others
that your feeble attempts at understanding any of this fail is yet another symptom of the potency of violence words are indeed capable of:
if you hear enough racial slurs in a context that make them seem harmless, and you do not no anything else, then you feel it is normal to do so
it does not mean it is, it just makes you feel/think that it is
however,
not everyone was brought up to be a douchebag, and the indoctrinating powers of words is of such lethalness that these years of upbringing/indoctrination take years to be thwarted..
and by thwarted i do mean that one's vista can be broadened so that one realizes on one's own that one was wrong to do "x" (in your case disregard social conduct/history and basically anyone who disagrees with you)
most people never get the chance to fully come back from years of hate/contempt indoctrination,
i'm not betting much on your chances
but i was lucky AND i know it, and that comes with a responsibility towards you to broaden your vista, be patient and show you that you are not a failure, that you can be redeemed, again and again, until you realize .. on your own, what a douchebag you were to stand up for the defense of the word nigger (among other clear signs of contempt for your equals: other human beings)
ps: re read the thread, maybe some of it will bear fruit, and yes i said fruit, not puss .. from you henceforth
pps: you are incapable of having a meaningful discussion about such a subject, you are blinded by hatred and contempt for others
if you were not, i would (as i said it from the start) be carpet bombing this thread with all my hate of pc ness and damage control and hypocrisy that this world is suffering from..
..but things being such as they are, i have no qualms at jumping the fence
to point out that you are a violent young person
that doesn't even realize that by ignoring other people he is part of the problem and therefore needs help
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On December 28 2013 18:43 enord wrote:
ignE, you should let him wollow in his ownn vomit, he likes it
he is a hypocrite racist that uses the cover of discussing suppression of words to spew his filth
continuously acting all self righttious and indignant whilst he knowingly perpetuates what he denounces
I don't perpetuate racism. I use the words sarcastically, ironically and to casually parody situations while fighting actual racism. You're close minded if you don't see that humor is a good way to talk about topics. Furthermore, you're *VERY* close minded if you ignore the fact that I actively discourage real racism in my surroundings.
And words with "violent power" as you amusingly say, can be gutted from their power when used properly. Racial slurs can be harmless when they're made out to be. They can be harmful when used in such a way that's likely to hurt others or negatively influence others in a relevant way. So I'm not saying language is harmless, I'm saying it can be, when it's used by people who know how to use it.
Now you clearly don't know how to use language, this is made clear in your posting. You also seem to be driven by your emotional response to those words more so than the actual consequences (or lack thereof) of those words. You get out of your way to insult a person who's completely innocent of any actual important wrongdoings in the way of racism. Hell, worse than that, I'm actively fighting racism in whatever ways I can, and yet you're so misguided that you'd take me as a target for some bullshit reason when I've probably done more to deal with racism than you ever have.
Like the other guy, your heart is in the right place, but you're so hung up on the potential indirect damage that words can inflict that you forget the real issues. So to reiterate, yes words can cause damage - but they don't always do it. A disgusting book like Mein Kampf in my hands is harmless. In a neo-nazi's hands it might not be. Mein Kampf or any neo-nazi in my hands may be eye-opening, and it may make me more aware of what I'm fighting against. Much like jokes about black people, in the correct setting, can act as a social commentary, or sometimes, a harmless, tasteless goof like a dead baby joke. It would be silly to ignore the power of words, but it's just as silly to assume that they can't be stripped from their power also.
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i was referencing the op, not you
i actively ignored you
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On December 29 2013 00:29 enord wrote:
i was referencing the op, not you
i actively ignored you
You wrote "I actively ignored you" and somehow didn't get a huge red flare in your head that said "perhaps that's a really dumb thing to say or do". Come on man.
Granted, this shows what I'd been suspecting. You'd rather flail your arms around helplessly than think about shit. You're a zealot, basically.
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On December 29 2013 00:31 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 00:29 enord wrote:
i was referencing the op, not you
i actively ignored you You wrote "I actively ignored you" and somehow didn't get a huge red flare in your head that said "perhaps that's a really dumb thing to say or do". Come on man. Granted, this shows what I'd been suspecting. You'd rather flail your arms around helplessly than think about shit. You're a zealot, basically.
Calm down, he's just being an n-word.
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On December 29 2013 01:19 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 00:31 Djzapz wrote:On December 29 2013 00:29 enord wrote:
i was referencing the op, not you
i actively ignored you You wrote "I actively ignored you" and somehow didn't get a huge red flare in your head that said "perhaps that's a really dumb thing to say or do". Come on man. Granted, this shows what I'd been suspecting. You'd rather flail your arms around helplessly than think about shit. You're a zealot, basically. Calm down, he's just being an n-word.
Nina you're negatively affecting my subconscious :X
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the op is who i am adressing
"actively ignoring you" might seem like a bait but it wasn't
(but if it was you took it with hook line and fisherman, so what was that again about power of words?)
i meant that i did not read your posts nor invested any of my time trying to find if my typing to you would do any thing (good, bad, to you, to any one else reading)
i adressed ignE as a form of thanks to him for trying to reason the op out of his fiction
i adressed op because it is wrong to let hate spew uncountered
would you like us to converse, seems like you like to converse, seems like you like to insult too
just to retort and show good will, i started out in this thread with the intention to give my 2 cents on pc corectness and hypocrisy (which i think are bad for everyone and in a sense are the origin of many aweful stuff)
and never it never got to that
i stumbled upon a more pressing/important issue: countering a kid who thinks hatred of some things gives him the right to spit in whole lot of people s faces (people alive and dead both)
when you say "i use taboo words to disarm them", can i ask you how you rate your succes?
lenny bruce did it and he changed america for ever, georges carlin did it too to a lesser extent
do you think you are on par with them?
context, space and timing to ellaborate, the talent and the talent to do it only when it will achieve a sound goal are very hard to come by wouldn't you agree?
actively ignored, why would i have typed this?
maybe this is my way of saying i have more respect for you than for the op
maybe i came to the conclusion of my patience on this thread
maybe i know what i'm doing
maybe words can be misenterpreted
maybe i was demonstrating to lurkers reading what i meant by power of words, by a "world of words" (forums)
or maybe my kid was more important and i typed what i had time to type in that moment
ps: the edit is strong with you, i wonder how i should take that (sorry, just in case you are wondering, i meant i read it unedited then edited and i'm reflecting on your train of thought)
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double useless posting trying to smash a funny yet useless typo
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You ask me my rate of success, you speak of changing the world, as if small steps didn't count. I didn't change the world, nor did you. I'm not Lenny Bruce, I'm not George Carlin - sorry. But I can do what they do, without their talent, with my friends.
As for my edits, sorry. I'm never satisfied with my posting so they sometimes tend to be living posts.
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EPT
