My rebuttles to the points raised post my case response here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=376#7519
My responds to the garbage said overnight:
On December 18 2013 02:29 sandroba wrote:
It doesn't matter what mocsta types right now, what does matter is how he behaved throughout the game. It's a simple excercise to find rational for stuff already done. The way he behaved, as proven by that giant post I typed simply could not have come from a townie mentality. Please stop dicking around and let's lynch this man.
Of course what I write matters matters. I am town and have not flipped. This is the scummiest way possible to discredit everything I am responding to.
Further, I already proved your case did not detail anything that suggests I am mafia, or promoting a scum agenda. Your case is based purely on the assertion of HP claims which are insignificant towards a scum victory.
On December 18 2013 02:43 sandroba wrote:
Mocsta, despite whatever he says didn't go after JL or MZ. In fact, despite calling them both scum pretty early didn't make any solid case or push to get them lynched and when they were an option he didn't vote MZ until he was done and was against the shot on JL.
Incorrect.
I made a solid case on JL and was consistently pushing him and bringing his name up to people influential in the thread.
Regarding MZ, we are on different time zones... and I have already said I am busy. Just because I did not vote someone when you want me to, does not make me scum.
I provided detailed reasons for why I prefered a JL lynch vs shot and you have completely ignored them.
Let me repeat: we never had knowledge that there was enough town KP to kill JL in one fell swoop.
My actions were promoting an earlier JL death.
On December 18 2013 02:50 kushm4sta wrote:
haha mocsta didn't even read your long ass defense.
read the sig
btw i know sandroba's case is garbage. I didn't want to say anything because I agreed with its conclusions. Sandroba's claim to fame has never been making cases. He has good "feel" reads, and currently he's lost his feel. That does not matter at this point though, since people respect him and they will listen to him and you will get lynched. Maybe jayb then you but still you get lynched.
BTW ZERO POINT ZERO credit for this jayb bus, mocsta.
Even my biggest detractor realises that you are not calling me scummy for genuine reasons.
On December 18 2013 03:12 sandroba wrote:
@mocsta kush is giving me a bad feeling and I'll listen to what you have to say. besides kush, who do you think is the rest of the mafia team?
For someone that finds me scummy. Its pretty clear in my filter.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=374#7467
On December 18 2013 03:31 Koshi wrote:
It's also not that he talks to this scums like he knows that they are scum. He just interacts with them and tries to figure them out.
Bingo.... Sandroba conveniently glosses over this.
On December 18 2013 03:54 sandroba wrote:
And regarding the taunt, I really can't get passed that.
Risen claimed he would be shielding both rayn/risen or himself.
rayn taunts mocsta. Mafia has no way of knowing that unless rayn is mafia. But if rayn is mafia he knew Risen was suppose to shield them and there is no point hitting for 25dmg, as that damage would never be even noticed.
So either mafia randomly wasted 25 damage on Rayn or Risen for no purpose (can't be another mafia VT since VTs shoot for 50 and unless taunted the damage should not be halved) or he taunted it off mocsta. That's the only 2 possible explanations and one is way more likely than the other.
The red = tunnel syndrome
As for plausibility of the two scenarios.
Night 3 when Rayn taunted me... the following died:
ticklishmusic, visceraEyes, mkfuba.
Its completely plausible scum burned a majority of their KP on those 3 and had pittance left and decided to use it on Rayn to fake a taunt.
On December 18 2013 03:57 Koshi wrote:Does anybody with LoL knowledge know what this could be?
Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 13:10 Mocsta wrote:On December 02 2013 13:07 OdinOfPergo wrote:
@mocsta
are you caster or tank?
I don't know anything about lol
Sorry
I was a marksman whatever that means
Regarding this, its laziness/demotivation.
I got my pick selection PM and it showed immediately I wasnt blue/fiddlesticks.
I didnt care about the rest of it. I saw the start (Green text) and then saw the end (HP).
I remembered I was a marksman and told him that. Was too lazy to check and everything was over my head anyways.
On December 18 2013 03:58 sandroba wrote:
If mafia's plan was to frame someone I believe they would have pushed the issue but I see not a single mention of this in flipped scum's filter. The fact that mafia didn't jump on mocsta for that is alarming by itself. And if it were a frame it would likely not even be noticed since Risen was suppose to shield them both.
Firstly, people have jumped all over me for this which directly contradicts what you just wrote.
Secondly, Rayn is known for hard tunneling. Its completely plausible scum were happy to let Rayn do "his thing"
Thirdly, when Rayn was pushing me about it, I explained myself in clear detail. I know I am not a fucking caster minion.
Lastly, its completely possible scum had little KP remaining (as i explained above) and decided to burn it on Rayn for "fun" - turns out it paid off. Realistically, what is 25kp going to do to anyone....
On December 18 2013 04:22 sandroba wrote:
@kush any good explanation for what happened? Mocsta only changed his claim to tank after the taunt thing iirc.
Wrong. I said I took dmg; and when Rayn brought up the taunt thing. I explained that if mig shot me I woudl stil have more HP than a caster minion. I never changed any claim.
On December 18 2013 05:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 05:13 justanothertownie wrote:
Wait wait wait. This whole marksman thing... are you sure this is about his champion and not about his character? What reason would he have to tell us about a marksman if there isn't any?
This is exactly what I was about to say. Look at all the vt flips - people have all been given pro players as their identities. I think it's entirely plausible that Mocsta's player description mentions marksmen.
Bingo....
On December 18 2013 05:26 sandroba wrote:
The thing is jat, he only started lying after rayn said he taunted someone and was hit by 25dmg. Then he changed his story from being "marksman" with 1k hp to tank minion with 1.15k hp. Even though previously when directly asked wether he was tank minion he apparently he had no clue what that means.
Espousing more rubbish to discredit me.
Firstly you have no proof of a lie.
Secondly, yes, I didnt know which minion I was specifically. Why is this scummy?
The crux of your case against me has never delved into scum motivation for any actions. You are purely riding Migs coat tails.
On December 18 2013 05:31 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 05:26 sandroba wrote:
The thing is jat, he only started lying after rayn said he taunted someone and was hit by 25dmg. Then he changed his story from being "marksman" with 1k hp to tank minion with 1.15k hp. Even though previously when directly asked wether he was tank minion he apparently he had no clue what that means.
I will have to think about this further but it still makes no sense to me that Mocsta as scum would lie about which VT role he has. High risk and little to no reward.
Exactly. Someone is thinking.
There is fuck all difference between shooting someone for 950kp or 900+50kp. Sandroba says otherwise and I disagree vehemently.
On December 18 2013 05:39 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 05:36 justanothertownie wrote:The last post was directed at jay obviously.
On December 18 2013 05:34 sandroba wrote:
How is it no reward when he just got taunted off 50 dmg by rayn, which he can't explain how he used in the previous nights? And how on earth would you explain the fact that rayn took 25 dmg?
The question is: why would he tell us the wrong role in the first place? If he claimed caster minion right away there wouldn't even be a problem explaining the dmg.
It was high risk for MZ to make up some bull shit about his ability but he did it.
50 extra KP is 50 extra KP that town has no control over. It maybe not be the smartest move from the risk reward standpoint.
But it is an advantage if they can get away with it, granted a small one.
Rubbish. MZ blocked the invention + Mig. He had a good reason to lie about his power.
If you want to go along the lines that 50kp is a small advantage nonetheless; than the movers also have a reason to lie because scum could have moved targets they wanted to maximise dmg for Coags nuke.
This is jsut getting stupid.
Flips have shown a 850-1200hp range. 50kp is not the factor between killing someone or not.
On December 18 2013 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Mocsta
Unless there is some stupid unnaccounted 25 dmg on someone from N2 (ambulance radio) this is the best thing.
We are potentially in MYLO. This is not the best thing.
The 25kp can easily be explained by remnant kp after killing 3 people night 3.
Or it can be explained by trying to get you into a tunnel.
I fuckn asked you who you taunted. Dont you think if I was a caster minion, that I would have played out our convo differently? I had no idea you taunted me; nor did I ever think it could come from me. Im not a caster minion.
On December 18 2013 06:13 justanothertownie wrote:
If this is the case: why did you take 25 dmg the night you taunted jay who also claimed tank VT? Those can't come from a caster minion Mocsta.
On December 18 2013 06:22 sandroba wrote:
Of course after ther incident happen mafia has a reason to randomly hit rayn for 25 dmg. But in the night rayn was supposedly shielded and mafia could never know he would taunt mocsta it makes no fucking sense. Please use your head jat.
LOL... anything to satisfy your story sandroba.
Yes, I agree the followup 25kp is meaningless. However the 25kp from my taunt is completely plausible for situations you refuse to consider.
On December 18 2013 06:30 sandroba wrote:
Don't you understand that is in mafia best interest to keep information from town? And if mocsta shot at previous night on the people that got killed or any one looking town he would have a hard time explaining it?
That's the way you would do it if you got mafia caster minion, it doesn't mean that's the way mocsta did it in the previous night. And if you remember mocsta didn't say which type of minion he was when directly asked about it by Odin.
This is the way you would do it. I already explained my actions.
I also already explained what I would do as scum if I was a caster minion. I stand by that. We have different philosophies.. get over it.
On December 18 2013 06:33 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 06:30 sandroba wrote:
Don't you understand that is in mafia best interest to keep information from town? And if mocsta shot at previous night on the people that got killed or any one looking town he would have a hard time explaining it?
That's the way you would do it if you got mafia caster minion, it doesn't mean that's the way mocsta did it in the previous night. And if you remember mocsta didn't say which type of minion he was when directly asked about it by Odin.
No, that's not the way I would do it. Why would he shoot at people that get killed with his 50 KP? He KNOWS who will be killed as scum. Just shoot someone else.
Exactly. High risk for little reward. I do not play scum like this; nor does anyone that is considered good at scum.
On December 18 2013 06:43 sandroba wrote:
sigh it's hard to talk to you. At N1 and N2 mocsta had not claimed which type of VT he was. He has no reason to do so as mafia unless pressed about it. He was asked about it by odin and dismissed the question saying something about marksman. Now why would he shoot some lurkers with his 50kp? That would be hard to justify as town mocsta since he was saying JL and MZ were scum and they didn't take any extra damage as you can see in the ambulance radio. How can he justify have shot someone else? He can't, so when 50kp got taunted off him when he was finally pressed about which type of VT he was he changes his claim to tank minion who has no KP (since again, he cant justify not shooting MZ or JL). But wait, tank minion actually has 1.15k hp as opposed to what mocsta claimed 1k hp. No problem he just says he has 1.15k and said 1k because it was too damn long to type.
Once again, you dont like the way I wear my pants on my head. I don tplay the game the same as you; and you havent explained at all why this benefits scum agenda.
On December 18 2013 06:46 sandroba wrote:
Mafia likely has xxxx factional kp. Mocsta wasting it on lurkers which mafia has no desire to kill acomplishes nothing and doesn't buy mocsta any town cred. The best course of action is to not say you have kp at all and contribute your kp to mafia objectives.
Disagree. Night1 there was every incentive to claim caster as nobody knew hero selections and/or ultimates. Chezinu was a watcher and could have easily caught a caster that didnt claim. Again, high risk, for only 50kp.... your story doesnt hold up.
On December 18 2013 07:16 sandroba wrote:
Okay scratch that let me explain it again because I said under instead of over.
1)Mocsta realises mig can check people's HP. Claims 150 dmg so he can be sitting at his original HP amount.
2)Rayn claims the 25dmg, mocsta realises what went on and changes his claim to tank minion because that can't be easily confirmed.
3)If mig survives and checks mocsta he and finds 725hp mocsta simply says that he was hit by another 150 and his story can hold.
Number 1 point is the only thing that explains mocsta suddenly taking 150dmg, because he is caster minion.
Rayn getting hit by 25 is only explained by mocsta being caster minion also so there you have it.
It all adds up.
It doesnt add up as I have already explained
On December 18 2013 07:22 sandroba wrote:
When mocsta claimed 150 damage he didn't know about rayn taking 25dmg.
The plan was too keep the story about originally having 1k hp and now having 850 left, because again, that's his original amount of hp.
But when rayn comes and claims 25dmg mocsta has to change his claim and that's why it became so convoluted and mocsta had to say 1.15k and tank minion. That wasn't the plan, he had to adapt and that's why he had to say he said his hp wrong in the first place.
This is so stupid. Why wouldnt I make this claim night1 if all I wanted to do was fake being a caster minion.
EPT
O NOT* influence the game.
