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On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else?
I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence..
And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Okay, doing some thinking and reading.
I'll also say that I'm suspicious of clarity for the fact that he's been talking a lot but most of it has been asking questions or sheeping. His vote of Dirk is scummy imo. Now that I've had time to think about it, I don't award him any credit for explaining my thoughts. this is something scum can and does easily do to look like a contribution. It wasn't worthless though so it's not a scumtell.
That being said, I don't think clarity is actively disrupting the thread. In his questions an attempts to interact, although they can be incoherent, they look like he's trying to develop reads and interact with other players in a constructive way. I don't like that he doesn't have any serious long posts with analysis. His conversation is good, but he hasn't seriously followed it up. That being said, Clarity is generally active and in the thread. Like Dirk, he hasn't posted enough analysis, but at least he's around. I think his alignment will become more clear one way or another as the game goes forwards. I am not willing to lynch Clarity today.
I don't like Dirk's entrance into the thread either. It doesn't make a huge amount of sense. he hasn't played amazingly, but this post in particular (LINK) gives him a little bit of credit in my eyes. He's willing to admit he is wrong later, but ultimately his contributions today are lacking. His filter is short and his only serious posts (link) (link) are summary or backtracked. Due to the fact that he hasn't produced serious analysis or things he has been held to, I am willing to lynch Dirk today. He is not my top option however.
I don't like sloosh's reasoning for voting clarity. scummy, but not oats tier.
I swing around now to Rayne. He is normally a big poster and interacts a lot. He writes cases, he pushes, he and I usually have serious interactions by this point in the game. This game, though, he seems quiet and subdued. I don't like this. His entire filter is questions, insinuations, questioning insinuations, and weird one-liners where he seems not to understand things. This is really not what I'd expect from rayne. His stances are all soft and fluffy, and he's really not contributing and maing his opinions and stances known. Rayne isn't afraid of that kind of thing. Rayne isn't afraid to lead.
Not normally, at least.
##unvote Oatsmaster
##vote Rayne
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498&user=raynpelikoneet&view=all
LOOK AT RAYN'S FILTER. It's not the filter of a town rayne.
I know it's majority lynch, so I am currently willing to shenannie onto Oats or Dirk, but please, take a look at what i've liked and at rayne's overall filter. He's revealed nothing. He's pushed nothing seriously. He is all smoke and mirrors and no substance.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 03 2013 15:38 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 09:58 slOosh wrote:On October 03 2013 08:26 marvellosity wrote:
alrighty. ty for your input ^^ expecting that Risen shizzle from you though :> There's nothing too compelling in the case on Clarity. There's a potentially good point in how clarity retracted his townread of me, but given clarity's explanation and the fact that he actually draws attention to it is a plus for him. He threw out his big case, and then just sits on it. There's no trying to convince people he is right, or even bring some attention to it, then he goes into sulking mode (immune to lynch? really?) without either trying to boil down his case into succinct points, or moving on to other stuff cause maybe he is wrong and it is a good time to regroup. Seems like pretense of contribution to me. Your current evaluation of Risen? Also clarity, I can see you angling for my lynch or something. Anything you want to ask me directly? Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote:Booorinngg The following quotes contain wiffle-waffle: Agree / Disagree? On October 03 2013 03:01 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think that's just blazinghand being blazinghand. He likes numbers and theorycrafting so despite having a scumread on oats he considers possibilities where he's town and justifies the lynch in that case.
That's my interpretation anyway.
He has contributed quite a bit, I don't have a solid read on him but I think he's a poor lynch today.
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on oats, and please comment on dirk as well. On October 03 2013 03:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Like, it's not improbable for him to be scum doing all this rng business but I can't tell. He's clearly putting effort in and that's cool. Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:20 slOosh wrote:
I feel good about this one.
##Vote: Clarity_nl Wat? Explain how you went from "Nothing to compelling" to then add some wiffle-waffle and suddenly you feel good about it?
I'm no longer willing to lynch dirk today
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So Dirk, i'd like you to take a look at rayne's startlingly analysis and push-free (no real cases!) filter and let me know what you think. Your only real comment on rayn (link) was that he would be a safe place to park your vote. What do you think of him now?
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Reason I said that he was an easy place for a vote was because he had made 1-2 post with no serious contend. Batman something... I'll take a look at him now.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Sounds good! Just to reiterate, contrast his filter this game with his play in Sicilian: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884&user=raynpelikoneet&view=all
he had posts like this (link) and like this (link) or this (link) early in the game. I'm talking serious cases, calling people out, pushing, following up, convincing other players of his thoughts. And he HAD thoughts. Rayn as town forms reads and pushes them. He follows through. He leads.
Where is that rayn this game? no-where. This is scum rayn, pure and simple. He's been around, he's had a lot of time, and he's given us squat. he normally delivers far more with far less. Lynch him. lynch him hard.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Now, granted, scum rayn has in the past been active and pushed things. But let me put it this way: this departure from his normal play is not town-driven in any way. Like, WTF. There's no explanation (though he'll probably spew some crap about being busy or demotivated or something) that justifies this massive change in how he plays (a massive change for the worse).
This isn't a change of style, or a change of plan. this is a change of usefulness and townieness. he's scum!
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On October 03 2013 15:46 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else? I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence.. And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though.
This is an outright lie.
On October 02 2013 18:38 Dirkzor wrote:I believe BH's rng post was meant to be what it turned out to be. Discussion starter. It worked. Great. Now lets move on and find scum. Shit I don't even know what to write... Been so looong. Oats seem either weird, confused or scummy. Not sure which yet. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stifling discussion is top scum play for calling someone scummy when they are being agressive and shit.
Holyflare is the right lynch!. The first sentence still doesnt make sense to me after reading it 5 times (Hungover so might be my fault). it also baffles me that he seems so sure about who to lynch so early. There are other examples: Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? This whole posts is nonsense aswell. But through all this I somewhat still think he is town... hmm... HF's rambling about meta and being weak is rubbish. Him jumping the rng wagon, as pointed out by Risen, without any good reason is rubbish. After this, despite that BH think he have been posting better, he havent really done anything. He has sheeping BH and using BH arguments to push oats. ##Vote Holyflare
Your case says he has not contributed at all and sheeping.
On October 02 2013 19:10 Dirkzor wrote:Yes he have been posting, but when I read it I don't really see any meat. Might just be me but that's how I see it. Some of his posts seems to be just for the sake of posting. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 12:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players.
except that we have 48 hours to find scum and its only 2/9 chance that we get scum. And probably another 4/9 that we hit an obvious townie that is obvious town after 48 hours. Now its not so useful is it? Do you even read what is posted? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:18 Blazinghand wrote:
Also to all the RNG doubters: RNG has a 2/7 chance of hitting scum today! Not 2/9 as you might think. Why is that?
Well, first off, I'm talking to people who aren't Oats and are town. You personally know that of the 8 non-you players, 2 are scum. So you'd think it would be a 2/8 chance of an RNG hitting scum. Pretty lame right? WRONG. If the RNG is on the doctor and the lynch starts to gather steam, he'll surely claim. This means that the doctor isn't even in the lynch pool, and we can roll again for a new RNG. this means we can discount one town player from our odds, meaning that you have a 2/7 (over 30%!) chance of lynching scum with RNG! On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? When I read through his filter it feels clinicly clean. Don't know how to describe it really... it like trying to get rotten wood look fresh on the surface.
When pressured you come up with a variation of "his posts feel constructed"
Why did you switch from reasons to "feel"? It's because your original reason got debunked by marv and you were forced to backtrack.
On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 19:17 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
Would still like your thoughts on oats, marv. And i would like your thought on me instead of "Oh i'll take that ##Vote" I could quote marvs posts if you'd like but they're right there. #Sheeple You spend 4 paragraphs on a null read yet your scumread is hardly explained. Saying HF has done nothing means you haven't read the thread carefully enough. Reading him as most likely to be scum is bleh. Thank you. Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found... Only little thing was this (and it's not really worth noting in the sheeping department): Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 13:56 Holyflare wrote:-snip- Not to mention; On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? If you think (you said you KNEW) a person was scum, your orientation as a townsman should be to prove to your allies that the person is in fact scum. If you do not interact with the person at all how can you garner anymore information than the one post you base your entire 'analysis' on? The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 13:47 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? The answer seems obvious to me. Your goal is to establish the alignment of the guy you have a scumread on. Sure, you think he's scum, but you don't KNOW. So you talk with him. You talk with other players and try to convince them. Maybe they support you, maybe they point out how he's scummier or townier than you thought. In these interactions, most people betray what alignment they are through how they think-- be they town or scum. The goal is to develop a co-operative discourse in which people all have solid reads on each other. It involves an acknowledgement that part of what writing a case and voting is, is pressure-- it's developing your read. On October 02 2013 13:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its funny that you played with me all these games with me BH, and you still dont know I exaggerate the hell out of my stuff.
When you lie, I will call you a liar. Quote me instead of putting words in my mouth. Other then that HF have been more original then I said he had been. Hmm.. That clashes with my previous belief. After re reading I'm also leaning more scum on oats. But I'm not sure it is entirely because of re-reading or just because I now think HF looks less scum. The problem with oats is that he have done some wierd shit as I pointed out earlier. But the feel I get when reading his filter is of someone who cares...
After that you kind of retract your read on HF, but instead of saying that you immediately go back to your old faithful "well, oats could be scum or town". The same thing you
On October 02 2013 22:00 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote? Truth is important. I was wrong I admit that. But I don't always go back and re-read just to be sure right before posting. I read the thread and was I got from it was that HF had sheeped BH so i wrote that. That turned out to be wrong after more careful scrutiny. Worse then that it puts me back as for as reads go. I don't understand why he is an easy place to put my vote. It would have been so much easier just to vote rayn if I wanted to do that.
You emphasize here that your HF read is now gone.
On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh...
After all that you go "welp, I guess I have no reads."
tl;dr
*Makes a case based on fiction
*Backtracks when called out and says it's a feel read
*THEN he retracts the read entirely because his reasons didn't hold up, DESPITE it being a feel read
*Claims he has never "framed it as anything but a feel read"
*Has not given analysis on anyone other than Oats or HF. Everyone else has basically been ignored, with the exception of a sentence or two.
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ebwop The same thing you already discussed at length in your opening post
Hit post by accident >.<
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When readin Rayn's fillter he seems to be scooting by without trying to make to much trace or impact.
On October 03 2013 05:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to understand what's going on with BH and Oats, but it's really hard.
Everything else has been said pretty much so no need to repeat it.
On October 03 2013 05:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i get that marv. I agree what's been said about Sloosh/Dirk/HZ.
I have now read the BH/Oats interaction for 2 times and i still don't know what to make out of it. Guess i know after one more time.
From what he have done so far is thinking real long and hard about BH/oats interaction without ever coming to a conclusion. He don't want to comment on anything else in the game because "it have been said" and "i agree". What? Are you 100% in agreement? You don't have anything to add to any case or any resservations about any case or reaction thereof?
This is the worst:
On October 03 2013 05:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 05:15 Blazinghand wrote:On October 03 2013 05:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to understand what's going on with BH and Oats, but it's really hard.
Everything else has been said pretty much so no need to repeat it. Is there something about my scumread on oats that you don't understand? I'd be glad to explain and expand. No there isn't. You use many words and your posts are for some reason hard to understand to me, so i need to read them over and over again. I am going to go through the interaction with you and Oats again to see what i think about it.
BH is in the thread and want to talk about something that rayn have pondering. Instead of asking BH questions about the things he slides of and does nothing...
Rayn looks like a good lynch actually. But I would still like to hear from Sloosh too.
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Man, BH, you know that Rayn can play scum much better then that.
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On October 03 2013 16:01 Blazinghand wrote:Sounds good! Just to reiterate, contrast his filter this game with his play in Sicilian: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884&user=raynpelikoneet&view=allhe had posts like this (link) and like this (link) or this (link) early in the game. I'm talking serious cases, calling people out, pushing, following up, convincing other players of his thoughts. And he HAD thoughts. Rayn as town forms reads and pushes them. He follows through. He leads. Where is that rayn this game? no-where. This is scum rayn, pure and simple. He's been around, he's had a lot of time, and he's given us squat. he normally delivers far more with far less. Lynch him. lynch him hard.
Blazing, consider aperture 2 and rayn's play in it. I realize it's a giant themed game but he was much less involved in everything as well there, and town.
You're right though, rayn has not contributed, and it would be nice if he did.
But saying that his change (similar to aperture 2) is despite not being his scum meta can only be scum aligned is a stretch.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that rayn is in fact the easy target now. After he showed up and did jack-shit but act confused and having no direction.
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On October 03 2013 09:58 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 08:26 marvellosity wrote:
alrighty. ty for your input ^^ expecting that Risen shizzle from you though :> There's nothing too compelling in the case on Clarity. There's a potentially good point in how clarity retracted his townread of me, but given clarity's explanation and the fact that he actually draws attention to it is a plus for him. He threw out his big case, and then just sits on it. There's no trying to convince people he is right, or even bring some attention to it, then he goes into sulking mode (immune to lynch? really?) without either trying to boil down his case into succinct points, or moving on to other stuff cause maybe he is wrong and it is a good time to regroup. Seems like pretense of contribution to me. Your current evaluation of Risen? Also clarity, I can see you angling for my lynch or something. Anything you want to ask me directly?
Not really, just keep doing it is whatever it is you're doing. Which is voting me apparently.
With your reasoning being that I "waffled" on bh.
That was my entry post btw, and bh was basically town leader when I arrived, so sharing some thoughts on him seemed cool.
I tend to do this thing you know, when I've entered the thread and the games been underway already, I give my opinion on the things that have happened so far. Yes, I came to the conclusion "lol null" on BH, but I also came to the conclusion that I don't wanna lynch him today.
On October 03 2013 12:55 Blazinghand wrote:
he's been on my dick. just finished ocelot barbery, time to look at clarity dirk and sloosh
You keep saying this but what it was is: you were around to talk to
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 03 2013 16:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man, BH, you know that Rayn can play scum much better then that.
not a legitimate argument, since he can also play town much better than this. It would be one thing if he were, say, not in the thread very much at all, or if he were trying a different style. But he's clearly around and posting, and it's not a stylistic change.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
brb ocelot barbery 9 hours
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2013 16:06 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 15:46 Dirkzor wrote:On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else? I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence.. And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though. This is an outright lie. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 18:38 Dirkzor wrote:I believe BH's rng post was meant to be what it turned out to be. Discussion starter. It worked. Great. Now lets move on and find scum. Shit I don't even know what to write... Been so looong. Oats seem either weird, confused or scummy. Not sure which yet. On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stifling discussion is top scum play for calling someone scummy when they are being agressive and shit.
Holyflare is the right lynch!. The first sentence still doesnt make sense to me after reading it 5 times (Hungover so might be my fault). it also baffles me that he seems so sure about who to lynch so early. There are other examples: On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? This whole posts is nonsense aswell. But through all this I somewhat still think he is town... hmm... HF's rambling about meta and being weak is rubbish. Him jumping the rng wagon, as pointed out by Risen, without any good reason is rubbish. After this, despite that BH think he have been posting better, he havent really done anything. He has sheeping BH and using BH arguments to push oats. ##Vote Holyflare Your case says he has not contributed at all and sheeping. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:10 Dirkzor wrote:Yes he have been posting, but when I read it I don't really see any meat. Might just be me but that's how I see it. Some of his posts seems to be just for the sake of posting. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 12:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players.
except that we have 48 hours to find scum and its only 2/9 chance that we get scum. And probably another 4/9 that we hit an obvious townie that is obvious town after 48 hours. Now its not so useful is it? Do you even read what is posted? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:18 Blazinghand wrote:
Also to all the RNG doubters: RNG has a 2/7 chance of hitting scum today! Not 2/9 as you might think. Why is that?
Well, first off, I'm talking to people who aren't Oats and are town. You personally know that of the 8 non-you players, 2 are scum. So you'd think it would be a 2/8 chance of an RNG hitting scum. Pretty lame right? WRONG. If the RNG is on the doctor and the lynch starts to gather steam, he'll surely claim. This means that the doctor isn't even in the lynch pool, and we can roll again for a new RNG. this means we can discount one town player from our odds, meaning that you have a 2/7 (over 30%!) chance of lynching scum with RNG! On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? When I read through his filter it feels clinicly clean. Don't know how to describe it really... it like trying to get rotten wood look fresh on the surface. When pressured you come up with a variation of "his posts feel constructed" Why did you switch from reasons to "feel"? It's because your original reason got debunked by marv and you were forced to backtrack. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 19:17 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
Would still like your thoughts on oats, marv. And i would like your thought on me instead of "Oh i'll take that ##Vote" I could quote marvs posts if you'd like but they're right there. #Sheeple You spend 4 paragraphs on a null read yet your scumread is hardly explained. Saying HF has done nothing means you haven't read the thread carefully enough. Reading him as most likely to be scum is bleh. Thank you. Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found... Only little thing was this (and it's not really worth noting in the sheeping department): On October 02 2013 13:56 Holyflare wrote:-snip- Not to mention; On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? If you think (you said you KNEW) a person was scum, your orientation as a townsman should be to prove to your allies that the person is in fact scum. If you do not interact with the person at all how can you garner anymore information than the one post you base your entire 'analysis' on? The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. On October 02 2013 13:47 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? The answer seems obvious to me. Your goal is to establish the alignment of the guy you have a scumread on. Sure, you think he's scum, but you don't KNOW. So you talk with him. You talk with other players and try to convince them. Maybe they support you, maybe they point out how he's scummier or townier than you thought. In these interactions, most people betray what alignment they are through how they think-- be they town or scum. The goal is to develop a co-operative discourse in which people all have solid reads on each other. It involves an acknowledgement that part of what writing a case and voting is, is pressure-- it's developing your read. On October 02 2013 13:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its funny that you played with me all these games with me BH, and you still dont know I exaggerate the hell out of my stuff.
When you lie, I will call you a liar. Quote me instead of putting words in my mouth. Other then that HF have been more original then I said he had been. Hmm.. That clashes with my previous belief. After re reading I'm also leaning more scum on oats. But I'm not sure it is entirely because of re-reading or just because I now think HF looks less scum. The problem with oats is that he have done some wierd shit as I pointed out earlier. But the feel I get when reading his filter is of someone who cares... After that you kind of retract your read on HF, but instead of saying that you immediately go back to your old faithful "well, oats could be scum or town". The same thing you Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:00 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote? Truth is important. I was wrong I admit that. But I don't always go back and re-read just to be sure right before posting. I read the thread and was I got from it was that HF had sheeped BH so i wrote that. That turned out to be wrong after more careful scrutiny. Worse then that it puts me back as for as reads go. I don't understand why he is an easy place to put my vote. It would have been so much easier just to vote rayn if I wanted to do that. You emphasize here that your HF read is now gone. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh... After all that you go "welp, I guess I have no reads." tl;dr
*Makes a case based on fiction
*Backtracks when called out and says it's a feel read
*THEN he retracts the read entirely because his reasons didn't hold up, DESPITE it being a feel read
*Claims he has never "framed it as anything but a feel read"
*Has not given analysis on anyone other than Oats or HF. Everyone else has basically been ignored, with the exception of a sentence or two.
You're entire case revolves around me changes my opinion... I don't see that as a problem to be honest.
my tl:dr version:
*makes a case based on first read through and the feeling i got*
*when called out re-read to find evidence, explain and convince*
*doesn't find evidence*
*Can see reasons for being wrong by people the calling him out*
*changes his veiw based on this*
I never said I had no read. Neither have I stated that I now think HF is town. Some of the things that I thought was scummy about him have just changed and thus I didn't have a clear read I could target.
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On October 03 2013 16:25 Blazinghand wrote:
brb ocelot barbery 9 hours
Seriously I need to know this. I didn't know what ocelots where so I googled. Its a leopard. Barbery on a leopard? What the fuck am I missing?
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On October 03 2013 16:26 Dirkzor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2013 16:06 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 15:46 Dirkzor wrote:On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else? I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence.. And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though. This is an outright lie. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 18:38 Dirkzor wrote:I believe BH's rng post was meant to be what it turned out to be. Discussion starter. It worked. Great. Now lets move on and find scum. Shit I don't even know what to write... Been so looong. Oats seem either weird, confused or scummy. Not sure which yet. On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stifling discussion is top scum play for calling someone scummy when they are being agressive and shit.
Holyflare is the right lynch!. The first sentence still doesnt make sense to me after reading it 5 times (Hungover so might be my fault). it also baffles me that he seems so sure about who to lynch so early. There are other examples: On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? This whole posts is nonsense aswell. But through all this I somewhat still think he is town... hmm... HF's rambling about meta and being weak is rubbish. Him jumping the rng wagon, as pointed out by Risen, without any good reason is rubbish. After this, despite that BH think he have been posting better, he havent really done anything. He has sheeping BH and using BH arguments to push oats. ##Vote Holyflare Your case says he has not contributed at all and sheeping. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:10 Dirkzor wrote:Yes he have been posting, but when I read it I don't really see any meat. Might just be me but that's how I see it. Some of his posts seems to be just for the sake of posting. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 12:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players.
except that we have 48 hours to find scum and its only 2/9 chance that we get scum. And probably another 4/9 that we hit an obvious townie that is obvious town after 48 hours. Now its not so useful is it? Do you even read what is posted? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:18 Blazinghand wrote:
Also to all the RNG doubters: RNG has a 2/7 chance of hitting scum today! Not 2/9 as you might think. Why is that?
Well, first off, I'm talking to people who aren't Oats and are town. You personally know that of the 8 non-you players, 2 are scum. So you'd think it would be a 2/8 chance of an RNG hitting scum. Pretty lame right? WRONG. If the RNG is on the doctor and the lynch starts to gather steam, he'll surely claim. This means that the doctor isn't even in the lynch pool, and we can roll again for a new RNG. this means we can discount one town player from our odds, meaning that you have a 2/7 (over 30%!) chance of lynching scum with RNG! On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? When I read through his filter it feels clinicly clean. Don't know how to describe it really... it like trying to get rotten wood look fresh on the surface. When pressured you come up with a variation of "his posts feel constructed" Why did you switch from reasons to "feel"? It's because your original reason got debunked by marv and you were forced to backtrack. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 19:17 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
Would still like your thoughts on oats, marv. And i would like your thought on me instead of "Oh i'll take that ##Vote" I could quote marvs posts if you'd like but they're right there. #Sheeple You spend 4 paragraphs on a null read yet your scumread is hardly explained. Saying HF has done nothing means you haven't read the thread carefully enough. Reading him as most likely to be scum is bleh. Thank you. Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found... Only little thing was this (and it's not really worth noting in the sheeping department): On October 02 2013 13:56 Holyflare wrote:-snip- Not to mention; On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? If you think (you said you KNEW) a person was scum, your orientation as a townsman should be to prove to your allies that the person is in fact scum. If you do not interact with the person at all how can you garner anymore information than the one post you base your entire 'analysis' on? The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. On October 02 2013 13:47 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? The answer seems obvious to me. Your goal is to establish the alignment of the guy you have a scumread on. Sure, you think he's scum, but you don't KNOW. So you talk with him. You talk with other players and try to convince them. Maybe they support you, maybe they point out how he's scummier or townier than you thought. In these interactions, most people betray what alignment they are through how they think-- be they town or scum. The goal is to develop a co-operative discourse in which people all have solid reads on each other. It involves an acknowledgement that part of what writing a case and voting is, is pressure-- it's developing your read. On October 02 2013 13:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its funny that you played with me all these games with me BH, and you still dont know I exaggerate the hell out of my stuff.
When you lie, I will call you a liar. Quote me instead of putting words in my mouth. Other then that HF have been more original then I said he had been. Hmm.. That clashes with my previous belief. After re reading I'm also leaning more scum on oats. But I'm not sure it is entirely because of re-reading or just because I now think HF looks less scum. The problem with oats is that he have done some wierd shit as I pointed out earlier. But the feel I get when reading his filter is of someone who cares... After that you kind of retract your read on HF, but instead of saying that you immediately go back to your old faithful "well, oats could be scum or town". The same thing you Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:00 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote? Truth is important. I was wrong I admit that. But I don't always go back and re-read just to be sure right before posting. I read the thread and was I got from it was that HF had sheeped BH so i wrote that. That turned out to be wrong after more careful scrutiny. Worse then that it puts me back as for as reads go. I don't understand why he is an easy place to put my vote. It would have been so much easier just to vote rayn if I wanted to do that. You emphasize here that your HF read is now gone. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh... After all that you go "welp, I guess I have no reads." tl;dr
*Makes a case based on fiction
*Backtracks when called out and says it's a feel read
*THEN he retracts the read entirely because his reasons didn't hold up, DESPITE it being a feel read
*Claims he has never "framed it as anything but a feel read"
*Has not given analysis on anyone other than Oats or HF. Everyone else has basically been ignored, with the exception of a sentence or two. You're entire case revolves around me changes my opinion... I don't see that as a problem to be honest. my tl:dr version: *makes a case based on first read through and the feeling i got* *when called out re-read to find evidence, explain and convince* *doesn't find evidence* *Can see reasons for being wrong by people the calling him out* *changes his veiw based on this* I never said I had no read. Neither have I stated that I now think HF is town. Some of the things that I thought was scummy about him have just changed and thus I didn't have a clear read I could target.
Your vote is still on him btw. I realize you made the post about voting yourself as placeholder. You are aware you can simply unvote?
Who have you looked at recently other than HF/Oats and did you develop a read out of looking at them?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 03 2013 16:29 Dirkzor wrote:Seriously I need to know this. I didn't know what ocelots where so I googled. Its a leopard. Barbery on a leopard? What the fuck am I missing?
is joke. i sleep
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I recently looked into sloosh (and found a gem I think). I am waiting for him to answer... Also in Rayn after BH asked and his case. But you would know if you read the thread as you so kindly advocated earlier that people do before asking questions...
I know my vote is on him. So?
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EPT
