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ShiaoPi has been repeating that I am lynchbait material and therefore I can't be scum. I don't follow this logic at all.
How does being lynchbait eliminate the possibility of me being scum? "Lynchbait" is simply a comment of how others view me. It is a comment on perception.
However, it doesn't matter what people think. The reality is that the chance I flip mafia is still around 30%, give or take a few technicalities.
In order for you to accurately determine my alignment, you need to scum hunt. Scumhunting will provide the context for the probability. Simply saying I am lynchbait and then refusing to scumhunt me is extremely anti-town. It shows your unwillingness to play like a townie should. It is another reason why you are scum.
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I would just like to point out that austin used the same logic that ShiaoPi used to conclude I was town. Austin said something along the lines that ShiaoPi was town because he is usually lynchbait.
Austin, can you explain why you hold this stance and why you think it is acceptable to play this way?
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@austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me.
##vote hiro protagonist
All my townreads for the most part are on FT and that makes me not want to sheep after all
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ok, Im back.
Im not sure here, because I have only mostly skimed up to now from when I last posted, but from the looks of things, peoples reason for not thinking ShiaoPi is scum is because its to obvious? sometimes scum are obvious. After reading though some of his last games, I agree that his play can be pretty inconsistent. however, his actions this game dont look like bad town. When hes been town, he is not apologetic. He is more confident with his reads and open about his play.
I want to reiterate what I said earlier: how ShiaoPi is playing is a classic way to play scum. Pops in the thread, establishes himself, and then rides out without actually contributing. When pressed about it, he promises to contribute, but never follows up. then gos back to lurking once hes not in the spotlight.
On FT. ok, Im not sure why FT is such the scummyist target, but Ive been wrong before. People I have town reads on seem to think hes gonna flip scum. Im not as convinced. FT has contributed when not pushed, ShiaoPi has not.
Gonna finish reading the thread properly.
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On October 02 2013 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah but Koshi and CR are like totally town and not in danger of getting lynched today. Why even bring that up? I disagree and...because they're my reads?
On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote:
Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort.
Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. I don't think so and I feel shitty about it. Can discuss postgame.
I've said my piece on FT. ShiaoPi is, again, someone that I just don't like lynching early. I know that's not optimal. I don't read him as scummy as others, some of that is connected to his view over the early koshi/FT bit. If you think FT is townie and koshi is scummy, then ShiaoPi's not liking FT as a lynch candidate and liking koshi as a lynch candidate early look good to you.
Beyond that, the VE segue is odd. If ShiaoPi is scum, he's in danger of getting lynched. I don't think he gets points for not voting FT to try and save himself, but look at his choice of targets for alternatives --> VE and cheesecake. He appears to have actively looked at VE, and although it's no secret VE hasn't done much today, the way he goes about NOT attacking VE is odd if he's scum being lynched. He gives a read on a guy, over multiple posts, gives his reasoning for thinking VE scum --> not scum, and it's a weird reason (comparing VE's filter in a medium size normaly game to a large game where VE was a resurrecting linked 3P survivor mason).
If he's scum, I would expect that if he doesn't go after FT, he goes after someone else that really seems like a possibility. Not going after VE and then finding VE townie. Him mentioning that reads like a legitimate look at someone from a townie point of view, even if, and ESPECIALLY if, I don't understand why you compare to a 3P survivor game.
If ShiaoPi had STARTED responding to pressure on him with something like this:On October 02 2013 00:34 ShiaoPi wrote:
I really don't get what you are having in your mind with the word tunneling. What I did was far from tunneling. also he is not a townread of mine, just waiting to see what he brings to the table next couple of cycles ( if he survives that is)
I admit that I am fairly useless currently, but with VE taken off my list for now, the read I wanted to push today is gone. Currently I am looking into Mr.CC, VA, solstice, which takes some time man Looking at a guy who's been tossed around a little, guy with some suspicion and a vote (i think just 1 vote on VA?), and a guy who replaced in and has been somewhat absent, then I wouldn't feel as townie on ShiaoPi as the "I thought VE was scum but now I think he's town and by the way guys THIS is the read I'm choosing to present as you want to lynch me" leads me to feel.
Scum don't have to do x or y when pressured, but that response does not feel like one from scum. He's not pushing hard to save his hide, he's not lurking hard, and he's almost not even providing an alternative. It's a read on a dude who wasn't getting lynched and who SP isn't TRYING to get lynched. Just a legitimate read, and a townie one at that, based on odd reasoning. Not the scummy kind, more the "I don't understand what you're doing but it seems to make sense to you" sort of odd.
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ok, I agree that SP not voting FT is odd...
still catching up.
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VOTE COUNT:
FirmTofu (5) : Pandain (X), WaveofShadow, Chairman Ray (X), Palmar (X), Oatsmaster, VisceraEyes, Koshi, raynpelikoneet (X), Mr. Cheesecake
ShiaoPi (5) : Koshi (X), FirmTofu (X), hiro protagonist, Koshi (X), strongandbig, Grackaroni, raynpelikoneet, FirmTofu
VayneAuthority (2) : Chairman Ray, Pandain, FirmTofu (X)
raynpelikoneet (1) : Pandain (X), Palmar, raynpelikoneet (X)
Pandain (1) : VayneAuthority
Mr. Cheesecake (1) : Koshi (X), ShiaoPi
s0Lstice (1) : austinmcc
hiro protagonist (1) : Grackaroni (X), Mr. Cheesecake (X), s0Lstice
Grackaroni (0) : VayneAuthority (X)
Chairman Ray (0) : Oatsmaster (X)
Lynch is in less than 30 mins. Voting is mandatory.
Currently FirmTofu is set to be lynched! (First to 5 votes)
If you see your vote (or anyone else's) out of place please run around like a headless chicken until one of the hosts notice something is amiss.
+ Show Spoiler [Details] +
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On October 02 2013 04:00 FirmTofu wrote:
I would just like to point out that austin used the same logic that ShiaoPi used to conclude I was town. Austin said something along the lines that ShiaoPi was town because he is usually lynchbait.
Austin, can you explain why you hold this stance and why you think it is acceptable to play this way? They're slightly different. You're town because I didn't think the posts people are jumping on are mafia posts. They are...scummy but not anti-town? Scummy but without agenda? Not following own recommendations and not explaining reads fully are scummy things, or things that aren't HELPFUL to town, but in this case it doesn't feel to me like you're actively trying to harm town/push an agenda. More just you're posting and some of your posts look blech.
ShiaoPi isn't town cuz he's usually lynchbait. I don't want to lynch him cuz he's usually lynchbait. That's regardless of a read on him, which was what I was telling snb. snb wants to kill Drazerk whether Drazerk is town/scum/3P/hosting. I find myself never wanting to kill ShiaoPi whether he looks townie/scummy/whatever. In this game though, based on his posting today, I actually DO find him townie.
Your townread from me is posting related. ShiaoPi being lynchbait isn't a read, it's just me never wanting to lynch him. Different thangs.
I think it's plenty acceptable to get a read on you based on your posts. I DON'T think it's optimal to play the way I do concerning ShiaoPi, but tough. Last time people thought ShiaoPi was scummy and I wasn't really sure he WAS scummy and we(town) won anyway, so, at worst, maybe he's scum and gets lynched or whatever.
On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote:
@austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me.
##vote hiro protagonist I haven't been going "woe is me so sry gaiz catching up." Don't expect you to.
But I don't like not having pull in the thread and being able to seriously affect the lynch, and it caused me to post a bunch last night and really try to get moving. I know you dropped in and gave some reads, but I just didn't quite get the same sense off you.
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Why are people wasting their votes?
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Thanks for the clarification, Austin. Do you think that ShiaoPi is using similar logic to categorize me as town or is there some malevolent intention behind ShiaoPi refusing to vote me?
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On October 02 2013 04:37 FirmTofu wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, Austin. Do you think that ShiaoPi is using similar logic to categorize me as town or is there some malevolent intention behind ShiaoPi refusing to vote me? ShiaoPi's D1 comments on you are pure "FT is lynchbait." Not really substantiated in the same way, so can't tell the logic there.
I don't really know what he's working off of, tbh, he doesn't detail WHY you're lynchbait, and seems to just stick to that stance throughout, either saying you are or trying to push people off of you purely by trying to present other folks as scum, without really pushing you as a townie person.
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Also Austin, Solstice is not getting lynched today. We have to be real about this. There is less than 30 minutes left. You should vote for whomever out of me and ShiaoPi you think is scummier(Hint: ShiaoPi is the right choice). We don't want scum controlling the votes. Let's consolidate.
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##unvote
##vote shiaopi
This would be my preference.
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I don't think either one of you is scum. The votes on you are a little scummier than the votes on ShiaoPi, imo, given that I'm fine with you and snb, scummy on Koshi, and unknown on VE/CC/HP.
If I need to consolidate, that's a later thing.
On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote:
Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort.
Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. Looked back at VA. , because I DID give no comment on him.
On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote:
So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here.
Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill.
No need to reply to this post, I won't read it
Disliked this post. I know we tend to undervalue the reads of early dead dudes, but this is too much. He died, therefore these guys look bad and this guy maybe looks bad, based on a single day of work. I don't love looking at it from "who looks bad with BH dead" instead of "what were BH's scum reads", and for someone who's trying to contribute little and observe much, I don't love this as being a jumping-in point? It's not much of a contribution, is highly speculative.
His exchange with HP also reads a little bit like butt. Calls HP scummier than before for responding to someone accusing HP of being scum because of only talking about one scumteam. Gotta have "inherent guilt" in order to address the alleged scumslip.
However, then he turns straight around and doesn't know how to read it:On September 30 2013 10:21 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 10:19 Pandain wrote:On September 30 2013 10:17 VayneAuthority wrote:
I don't see why you actually take the time to address that "scumslip" unless you have some serious inherent guilt Or he wants to appear town? Addressing an argument isn't the same as having inherent guilt. Actually there is a fairly large difference, addressing a good/strong argument is a necessity. defending yourself against a "scumslip" at a time when everybody was just bullshitting is inherent guilt. I don't know what to make of it though since as far as I can tell he is a very passive/apologetic player. On September 30 2013 10:24 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 10:22 Pandain wrote:On September 30 2013 10:21 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 30 2013 10:19 Pandain wrote:On September 30 2013 10:17 VayneAuthority wrote:
I don't see why you actually take the time to address that "scumslip" unless you have some serious inherent guilt Or he wants to appear town? Addressing an argument isn't the same as having inherent guilt. Actually there is a fairly large difference, addressing a good/strong argument is a necessity. defending yourself against a "scumslip" at a time when everybody was just bullshitting is inherent guilt. I don't know what to make of it though since as far as I can tell he is a very passive/apologetic player. Well clearly you made of it that he's scummy. I'm backtracking though since for him as a player it doesn't necessarily say anything.
Which...maybe true, maybe not. But what I actually don't like the most about that exchange is that smack in the middle of those posts, CC posts a big thing on HP - + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:I'm townreading CR for this post: Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 06:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
Oh shit! I didn't get lynched on day 1 this time. I think it's pretty clear that I'm mafia. This will never happen if I'm town. Chairman Ray has been the victim of D1 mislynches in his first two games. If he's mafia this game, I'd believe that he'd be even more cautious of the noose. I don't know of many players who, on their first scum game, would make a joke like this. This is a joke post that is null if a player like myself posted it, but for a noob like CR I'm leaning townie. Bit worried about HiroProtagonist (consider me the HiroAntagonist LELELEL) Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:48 hiro protagonist wrote:
Sup Homies. long time sense I last played, lets get to it.
First thoughts sense reading the thread, I would like to hear more from ShiaoPi, and VA. Both are giving off a "nothing to see here" vibe so far. Lets hear something more substantial please.
Yamato, VE, and Grackaroni, you guys just keep doing your thing.
Opening post pretty weak. He'd like to hear more from some lurky dudes (duh) and tells people to keep doing things that they are currently doing, but fails to mention a read on any of the 3 bottom guys. He keeps telling people what to do, but fails really to do anything himself. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 13:21 hiro protagonist wrote:
WoS, If you wanna vent a bit, fine. But Im not gonna let how you feel be a vail for you to slack off and hide. Your opening post was a good start, why dont you do more of that. If your attitude starts to mess with town atmosphere, Im gonna call you on it.
Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 13:23 hiro protagonist wrote:
Oats, your not helping.
Sense I answered your question, would you care to give me your thoughts on Yamato and BH? Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 13:59 hiro protagonist wrote:On September 27 2013 13:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 27 2013 13:46 hiro protagonist wrote:I find Palmar really hard to read... so far his play is less trolly than Im used to. His post in the first part of the game pusherd discussion along, some points for that. So far, he is in the null column. Lets see what he brings to the table. @WoS, Hiro Protagonist is the Protagonist of 'Snow Crash'. Hacker, worlds greatest swordsman, pizza delivery guy  funny that they 2 people on TL with that tag play Mafia. Him claiming to be part of the scumteam is not trolling? lol. I didnt say he wasn't trolling, just that he was less trolly. hes trolled waaaayyy hard than this. VA, your here, and actively lurking hardcore. reads? opinons? any thing at all to give me a reason not to lynch you? Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 15:03 hiro protagonist wrote:
Hmm, VA, in case you dont get it, you need to contribute. you cant just sit there and 'watch'. Unless you give me a good reason for you to just chill back(hint: you cant), then you better start giving me reads. what do you think af the game so far? who is suspicious in your eyes? What might have slipped under the radar?
From this point on, your gonna carry your weight. got it? Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 15:27 hiro protagonist wrote:
I would like to see ShiaoPi and BH post more.
kk, with that im off to bed ^__^ Posts like these are easy to make as mafia. They tell people to go off and post more, give reads, pull their own weight, etc. However, in the entirety of these posts and before HiroProtagonist goes to bed, he has accomplished essentially nothing except extrapolate on his Palmar null read. It looks like he's actively doing things, but doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. He hasn't given reads but tells other people to give reads. The rest of his filter for the day sheeps the Yamato scumread. He literally quoted Pandain's case and said "I think exactly what Pandain thinks here" without any prior indication that he believed Yamato was mafia. By reading HiroProtagonist's filter before this, I would believe that he thinks WoS is mafia because he "called out his bullshit". Not seeing much town from HP. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note: The Koshi to Yamato switch was awfully weird considering it landed on town. Granted, I liked the target so I can't complain much. Random lynch just seemed so epiccccccc ShaioPi is a fantastic night shot tomorrow. If you're mafia not on ShaioPi's team shoot him plz you gotta kill the other team sometime eh? Or cops gogo. I'm not sure if FT is bad or scum. Show nested quote +On September 28 2013 03:38 FirmTofu wrote:
Anyone who supports RNG, myself included, should still scumhunt and make full use of the day. There is still much to say and much to find. Anyone who stops scumhunting should be subject to lynch as well. following his own heuristic he should be lynched. You couldn't give me a klondike bar to read Rayn. Rereading WoS/Palmar/SnB. I'm just going to decide VE is town in my brain and not read into him that much unless he decides to transform into ScumeraEyes.
Willing to lynch VA over SP and FT, would still go for other targets more though.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
how I love checking in just before deadline to see myself getting lynched...
ugh whatever. solstice looks scum now to me. After I flip I can only suggest looking at VE, CC closely and lynch solstice. Also stop trying to meta me, it does not fucking work
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Townreads are VA, austin, CR and Wos
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##Unvote
##Vote FirmTofu
Based on simply the fact that I think he's slightly more likely to flip scum, I don't particularly care which of the two gets lynched.
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You should have taken my offer to be bros
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##Unvote:
##Vote: FirmTofu
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EPT
