|
On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D
Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Ukraine Russia USA Canada Germany China
Some of the countries Finland compete with for the remaining three to four spots in the top 10: Netherlands Spain Poland Finland France Denmark
|
On September 25 2013 22:07 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Some of the countries compete with for the remaining spots in the top 10: Rest
Fixed
|
Wicked. I love the sound of Finnish and Fuzer is pretty fun to listen to (or watch), so I may tune into the Finnish cast even without understanding it. Hopefully I'll see some cool Welmu, Naama and Elfitaja games.
|
On September 25 2013 22:07 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Ukraine Russia USA Canada Germany China Some of the countries Finland compete with for the remaining three to four spots in the top 10: Netherlands Spain Poland Finland France Denmark When you do list please say why. Name of players maybe?
Korea: agree Sweden: agree Ukraine: Used to be better 2010-2012 but pretty even now. Russia. Definetely better? Nah...but better than Finland agree. USA: competely disagree. Name me players pls! Canada: Land of one player; Scarlett. HuK is errmm...good Germany: agree China: agree.
|
On September 25 2013 22:13 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: Wicked. I love the sound of Finnish and Fuzer is pretty fun to listen to (or watch), so I may tune into the Finnish cast even without understanding it. Hopefully I'll see some cool Welmu, Naama and Elfitaja games. There will be english stream. Our american-finnish golden boy Yosu (Josu) will cast also.
elfittaja (elfittäjä) *
|
On September 25 2013 22:15 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:07 Grovbolle wrote:On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Ukraine Russia USA Canada Germany China Some of the countries Finland compete with for the remaining three to four spots in the top 10: Netherlands Spain Poland Finland France Denmark When you do list please say why. Name of players maybe? Korea: agree Sweden: agree Ukraine: Used to be better 2010-2012 but pretty even now. Russia. Definetely better? Nah...but better than Finland agree. USA: competely disagree. Name me players pls! Canada: Land of one player; Scarlett. HuK is errmm...good Germany: agree China: agree. I still believe Ukraine is better, just the sheer amount of good players like Bly, Dimaga, Strelok and HappyZerg. Canada: Scarlett and HuK (obviously) have done well in the past, but players like Masa, Kane and Hendralisk are pretty good as well. USA: I guess it is more rooted in the past, although new players like goswser, suppy, minigun, puck as well as the return of qxc also means you could make the case for USA>Finland.
Basically I was just pointing out that "Definitely top 10 country" is a bit of an overexaggeration.
Even if we revise my list, Korea, Sweden, China, Germany are definitely better, with countries like Russia and Ukraine being a maybe for some, a sure thing for others. Still leave Finland in a pool with a lot of strong countries like Netherlands, Spain, Poland, France, Denmark, USA and Canada from which only 4-5 can be top 10.
Finland has showcased elfi, Welmu, Naama, Fuzer, Protosser and Satiini over the last couple of years. And currently only elfi/Welmu are making a splash with Serral being an up and comer (or so I have been told). I don't want to shit on your announcement, it just bothered me with the "Def top 10 sc2 country".
GL HF to all participants
|
Kas not on Grovbolles list of good Ukraine players. That kinda hurts, you know. And Sweden lives on its old merits.
|
On September 25 2013 23:40 AlternativeEgo wrote:Kas not on Grovbolles list of good Ukraine players. That kinda hurts, you know. And Sweden lives on its old merits.
Yeah, today Sweden is only as good as NaNi and SjoW are on that day. Gone are the days when Swedes were number one in Europe, or even in the world outside Korea.
|
On September 25 2013 23:40 AlternativeEgo wrote:Kas not on Grovbolles list of good Ukraine players. That kinda hurts, you know. And Sweden lives on its old merits. Fuck, I knew I was missing someone. Obviously Kas as well.
|
On September 26 2013 00:38 Oukka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:40 AlternativeEgo wrote:Kas not on Grovbolles list of good Ukraine players. That kinda hurts, you know. And Sweden lives on its old merits. Yeah, today Sweden is only as good as NaNi and SjoW are on that day. Gone are the days when Swedes were number one in Europe, or even in the world outside Korea.
Were still like top 5
Finland feels like an 8th right now.
Anyway as I've already written in this thread I'm looking forward to see this
|
On September 25 2013 22:07 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Ukraine Russia USA Canada Germany China Some of the countries Finland compete with for the remaining three to four spots in the top 10: Netherlands Spain Poland Finland France Denmark
I was thinking about posting a similar list, but I thought since it would´nt be about the league, I´d rather not, but since the discussion has begun at this point: [It has gotten longer than I expected, thus the spoiler] + Show Spoiler +Korea: No discussion here I hope. Stonger than Finland (#1)
Sweden: Still clear Nr.2 for me, having the current best foreigner and a very large amout of dangerous guys (Sase, ThorZaIN, SortOf, Sjow, hOpe, Bischu, vipro) and than after that another group of players only shortly behind (Rest of property gamiong, Morow, Starnan) Stronger than Finland (#2)
Ukraine: As much, as it hurts me to say, but the Ukraine is not as dominant as in the past anymore. White-Ra is´nt his former self anymore, Fraer is gone, DIMAGA is incosistent (just look at his DH group), Kas is good, but suffers a lot from nerve issues, Strelok and Bly droped to Code B and Happyzerg seems to be the only newcomer. In theory, just looking at the names, the Ukraine is monstruos, but since all of them have a tendency to underperform lately, I can´t really rate them above Finland anymore.
Russia: Hard to judge. They have Happy and Titan, who can both play extremely well or end up dissappointing early. Then there is Livezerg, Brat_OK, sLivko, Revolver, but I can´t think of too many others either (counting pro7ect as korean). I´d say about even.
USA: Hard to judge; elfi and Welmu are probably stronger than every US player (Goswser comes close, though), but after that the US gets really big, just because of the amout of players they have (Suppy, puck, Minigun, Vibe, neeb, state, Illusion, qxc), while Finland has Protosser, Naama, Serral, Satiini (He still exists and beats players with a bigger name in ZOTAC and stuff, although he does´nt play the big stuff anymore), Jagelius, retired Fuzer... It i hard to judge, but I still give a small edge to Finland here, because of their stronger top players.
Canada: Same as in the US, it is hard to judge, because there is not that much intercontinental play happening. I´d say, the first 4 places are pretty clear (Scarlett>Elfi/Welmu>HuK) and after that, there is not much to compare. Canada has a bunch of known players. Canadas follow-up (Hendralisk, Kane, Jig, desrow, Drunkenboi) does seem weaker than the finnish players, I listed above; I think, I would at least rate Naama/Protosser/Fuzer above them, but that is not based on much. All in all, I´d say, it is about even.
Germany: I´ll say it now; I´m probably biased here, but I think Germany has a really strong SC2 playing roster. Hasu is probably still on top and at about the same level as the finnish tosses, with TLO, Heromarine and Showtime coming close behing. Socke is not in his best shape atm, but still pretty good, Krass was in premier league and Delphi, Hanfy and Monty were all pretty close to qualification this season. Also it still has it´s EPS regulars in GoOdy, Tarra, Acro and co. and a bunch of other notables, such as kaup, Knowme, Darkhydra, Saltthewound... I think, Germany is stronger than Finland (#3)
China: I don´t know that much about the chinese scene, but their current invasion of WCS NA and the results of iG in ATC are pretty much telling the story: Top, Macsed, Jim, XY, Comm , Xigua are all pretty good. I tink, if China gets someone on Naniwa-level, they might become the biggest challenger for sweden for second place. Stronger than Finland. (#4)
Shorter Thoughts on the other ones:
Netherlands: With Ret´s struggeling, I would not put them above Finland atm. They still have Grubby/Harstem/uThermal/Jona, but I don´t think, that that is enough, given Finlands 2 top-P´s and their wide field of players.
Spain: To dependet on Duran². I don´t think, the strengh on an entire country should be measured on 2 players. Finland > Spain.
Poland: Possibly up there. Nerchio is in form, MaNa is currently not. Poland has a solid back up with paranOid, Diestar, Tefel, DaNa, uzer. About even.
France: Dayshi does not really get the results everyone expects from him. Since he and ToD are the only real international high level players in France (with Neoangel, Firecake a bit behind), I would put Finland ahead of them.
Denmark/Norway: Similar problem to Spain, to dependent on their top 2 (Babyknight, Bunny / TargA, Snute). Denmark is on it´s way to fix this (with most notably Storm and pink goind deep in online brackets), it is not enough for me.
So, in conclusion: I think, that Finland very likely is a top 8 country at the moment. South Korea, Sweden, China and Germany are the only one, I would definitly agree on being stronger than Finland, with Canada, Russia, and Poland at the same level. Top 10 would get filled up by 2 of USA, Ukraine and France.
|
On September 26 2013 20:31 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:07 Grovbolle wrote:On September 23 2013 02:29 Master of DalK wrote: Finland is def top 10 sc2 country. Glad they'll get to show it more~ :D Countries that are definitely better than Finland: Korea Sweden Ukraine Russia USA Canada Germany China Some of the countries Finland compete with for the remaining three to four spots in the top 10: Netherlands Spain Poland Finland France Denmark I was thinking about posting a similar list, but I thought since it would´nt be about the league, I´d rather not, but since the discussion has begun at this point: [It has gotten longer than I expected, thus the spoiler] + Show Spoiler +Korea: No discussion here I hope. Stonger than Finland (#1)
Sweden: Still clear Nr.2 for me, having the current best foreigner and a very large amout of dangerous guys (Sase, ThorZaIN, SortOf, Sjow, hOpe, Bischu, vipro) and than after that another group of players only shortly behind (Rest of property gamiong, Morow, Starnan) Stronger than Finland (#2)
Ukraine: As much, as it hurts me to say, but the Ukraine is not as dominant as in the past anymore. White-Ra is´nt his former self anymore, Fraer is gone, DIMAGA is incosistent (just look at his DH group), Kas is good, but suffers a lot from nerve issues, Strelok and Bly droped to Code B and Happyzerg seems to be the only newcomer. In theory, just looking at the names, the Ukraine is monstruos, but since all of them have a tendency to underperform lately, I can´t really rate them above Finland anymore.
Russia: Hard to judge. They have Happy and Titan, who can both play extremely well or end up dissappointing early. Then there is Livezerg, Brat_OK, sLivko, Revolver, but I can´t think of too many others either (counting pro7ect as korean). I´d say about even.
USA: Hard to judge; elfi and Welmu are probably stronger than every US player (Goswser comes close, though), but after that the US gets really big, just because of the amout of players they have (Suppy, puck, Minigun, Vibe, neeb, state, Illusion, qxc), while Finland has Protosser, Naama, Serral, Satiini (He still exists and beats players with a bigger name in ZOTAC and stuff, although he does´nt play the big stuff anymore), Jagelius, retired Fuzer... It i hard to judge, but I still give a small edge to Finland here, because of their stronger top players.
Canada: Same as in the US, it is hard to judge, because there is not that much intercontinental play happening. I´d say, the first 4 places are pretty clear (Scarlett>Elfi/Welmu>HuK) and after that, there is not much to compare. Canada has a bunch of known players. Canadas follow-up (Hendralisk, Kane, Jig, desrow, Drunkenboi) does seem weaker than the finnish players, I listed above; I think, I would at least rate Naama/Protosser/Fuzer above them, but that is not based on much. All in all, I´d say, it is about even.
Germany: I´ll say it now; I´m probably biased here, but I think Germany has a really strong SC2 playing roster. Hasu is probably still on top and at about the same level as the finnish tosses, with TLO, Heromarine and Showtime coming close behing. Socke is not in his best shape atm, but still pretty good, Krass was in premier league and Delphi, Hanfy and Monty were all pretty close to qualification this season. Also it still has it´s EPS regulars in GoOdy, Tarra, Acro and co. and a bunch of other notables, such as kaup, Knowme, Darkhydra, Saltthewound... I think, Germany is stronger than Finland (#3)
China: I don´t know that much about the chinese scene, but their current invasion of WCS NA and the results of iG in ATC are pretty much telling the story: Top, Macsed, Jim, XY, Comm , Xigua are all pretty good. I tink, if China gets someone on Naniwa-level, they might become the biggest challenger for sweden for second place. Stronger than Finland. (#4)
Shorter Thoughts on the other ones:
Netherlands: With Ret´s struggeling, I would not put them above Finland atm. They still have Grubby/Harstem/uThermal/Jona, but I don´t think, that that is enough, given Finlands 2 top-P´s and their wide field of players.
Spain: To dependet on Duran². I don´t think, the strengh on an entire country should be measured on 2 players. Finland > Spain.
Poland: Possibly up there. Nerchio is in form, MaNa is currently not. Poland has a solid back up with paranOid, Diestar, Tefel, DaNa, uzer. About even.
France: Dayshi does not really get the results everyone expects from him. Since he and ToD are the only real international high level players in France (with Neoangel, Firecake a bit behind), I would put Finland ahead of them.
Denmark/Norway: Similar problem to Spain, to dependent on their top 2 (Babyknight, Bunny / TargA, Snute). Denmark is on it´s way to fix this (with most notably Storm and pink goind deep in online brackets), it is not enough for me.
So, in conclusion: I think, that Finland very likely is a top 8 country at the moment. South Korea, Sweden, China and Germany are the only one, I would definitly agree on being stronger than Finland, with Canada, Russia, and Poland at the same level. Top 10 would get filled up by 2 of USA, Ukraine and France. This was very well written. I almost totaly agree with you
|
Props to Fuzer for organizing this!
OT: I wish some organization would pull off NationsCup with few players from each nation to duke it out for the "Best foreigner country", then we would have less speculation! :D
|
On September 26 2013 22:56 nukkuj wrote: Props to Fuzer for organizing this!
OT: I wish some organization would pull off NationsCup with few players from each nation to duke it out for the "Best foreigner country", then we would have less speculation! :D
ESL tried to do in last year, but SK, USA, Canada, Ukraine (who was still monstruos at that time) did pull out. Poland (With an in-form MaNa) won that over Germany in the finals, Finland made the Semis.
|
On September 25 2013 22:17 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:13 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: Wicked. I love the sound of Finnish and Fuzer is pretty fun to listen to (or watch), so I may tune into the Finnish cast even without understanding it. Hopefully I'll see some cool Welmu, Naama and Elfitaja games. There will be english stream. Our american-finnish golden boy Yosu (Josu) will cast also. elfittaja (elfittäjä) * And I'm really looking forward to it! :D
On September 26 2013 23:11 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 22:56 nukkuj wrote: Props to Fuzer for organizing this!
OT: I wish some organization would pull off NationsCup with few players from each nation to duke it out for the "Best foreigner country", then we would have less speculation! :D ESL tried to do in last year, but SK, USA, Canada, Ukraine (who was still monstruos at that time) did pull out. Poland (With an in-form MaNa) won that over Germany in the finals, Finland made the Semis. IIRC the playoffs took something like 6 months to complete because of scheduling issues between each individual player. The finals were eventually broadcasted from replay - it'll probably be a long time before someone tries it again
|
On September 27 2013 03:06 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:17 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On September 25 2013 22:13 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: Wicked. I love the sound of Finnish and Fuzer is pretty fun to listen to (or watch), so I may tune into the Finnish cast even without understanding it. Hopefully I'll see some cool Welmu, Naama and Elfitaja games. There will be english stream. Our american-finnish golden boy Yosu (Josu) will cast also. elfittaja (elfittäjä) * And I'm really looking forward to it! :D Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 23:11 Xoronius wrote:On September 26 2013 22:56 nukkuj wrote: Props to Fuzer for organizing this!
OT: I wish some organization would pull off NationsCup with few players from each nation to duke it out for the "Best foreigner country", then we would have less speculation! :D ESL tried to do in last year, but SK, USA, Canada, Ukraine (who was still monstruos at that time) did pull out. Poland (With an in-form MaNa) won that over Germany in the finals, Finland made the Semis. IIRC the playoffs took something like 6 months to complete because of scheduling issues between each individual player. The finals were eventually broadcasted from replay - it'll probably be a long time before someone tries it again
Yes, it was´nt well organized, no schedule, no hype, AFAIK no prize-pool. Would be awesome to have a country-league, but it is probably really hard to pull off.
|
|
|
SO MANY TERRANS woooooooooooooooooooooooo. On topic: GOGOG Naama!
|
It is starting today already?? cool! I haven't seen PuPu playing ever but since he was invited I guess he is good Looking forward to this!
|
|
|
|